Poverty in America

[aztek]

21 minutes ago, ethereal_scout said:

What I'm saying is, potato work is work they can do at the level they're at. So they're useful. Its just the farmer uses a machine these days so they're not useful. Do you leave them to rot to a corpse because through no fault of their own.

if all the skill you have in modern world is  picking potatoes, though luck, and it is no one's fault but your own,  learn another trade,  pick the one that is in demand, if you are healthy enough to work potatoes all day long,  you are able and healthy enough to learn another trade,  and not wait\be dependent on someone that may hire you to pick his potatoes.  i still do not see how it is anyone else fault but your own.

Edited November 27, 2020 by aztek

[aztek]

dedicated to all those who wait.

[ethereal_scout]

What, like picking apples? Trades and unskilled labour are two different things. One you need skills, another you don't.

You missed my point though, what happens to those deemed to be of no more use to society?

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, ethereal_scout said:

What, like picking apples? Trades and unskilled labour are two different things. One you need skills, another you don't.

You missed my point though, what happens to those deemed to be of no more use to society?

so you learn a trade,  you adopt.  no one owes you anything.

who classifies people are no more use to society?  i'm not sure i understand such concept. 

[+and-then]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:27 PM, Autochthon1990 said:

Crap like this is why socialism is so popular these days. The idea that rich *******s should be allowed to have multiple private jets while the poor starve, suffer, and can't get healthcare is sickening to me.

Wallow in it, then.  Or you could go out in the community and give of your time and talents to help make things better.  Those who believe that the travails of the poor can all be solved by giving them handouts, don't understand human nature very well.  There ARE sick and mentally broken people who need our help and this government has had a net for them for the last 60-70 years.  The only anger I have toward people like Bezos is their hypocrisy.  

Do a little research into Johnson's GREAT SOCIETY.  Pay special attention to how poverty changed in the ensuing years.  You often talk smack about how brown people are abused.  What was made better for them, this 60 years on?  Or, you can just keep smack talking like a kid in an argument.

[rashore]

It may not be a skilled trade, but agricultural labor is skilled labor. It does take some skill to be fast, efficient, and reliable in the harvesting fields and orchards. Knowledge of how/when to harvest a variety of produce and be able to do food inspection in the field. Some fairly serious physical endurance too. And the willingness to move/travel as necessary to follow the work as places come up for harvest times for a lot of folks. Given the seasonal nature of produce, people have to either have another job for the rest of the year, or travel to keep working.

Agricultural labor is a must for a lot of produce that is delicate and needs to be hand-picked. Also, there are other crops where the prime produce is hand-picked before machines come in to do the more commercial machine harvesting. 

There are machines for digging up potatoes and shaking apple trees.. but not all farmers use them. Or might dig up the taters, but need the workers on the follow belt to hand-sort in the field. Apples hand picked for prime selling before the shaker comes in and brings down the applesauce fruits. 

Agricultural labor often gets poorly paid to the lower end of the area minimum wage, sometimes with legally lower than minimum amounts and allowances for cents per bushels/tubs filled, like how waitstaff are well below minimum wage with the thought of tips making up for the under. Though sometimes farmers put out help wanted signs at good pay- but locals don't want to do that hardcore of a job as a picker. Or try, but don't last as a picker. 

 

[ethereal_scout]

Quote

who classifies people are no more use to society?  i'm not sure i understand such concept. 

When an employer says "no". And before you mention it - the next one says "no" as well.

[+and-then]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:35 AM, Rolltide said:

Same issues in LA, SF, Portland...

What's the old line?  "If you build it, they will come?"  Anything a government subsidizes will always increase.  The Left have literally destroyed some of the most beautiful, vibrant cities in America and in their arrogance, they demand the rest of the country follow along.  

[aztek]

2 hours ago, ethereal_scout said:

When an employer says "no". And before you mention it - the next one says "no" as well.

why are they keep saying no?  do they conspire?

 

[ethereal_scout]

Because their business is full and employees cost money.

[aztek]

48 minutes ago, ethereal_scout said:

Because their business is full and employees cost money.

lol, all business are full ?  surely some do hire for something, 

have you ever thought why some people get hired and others do not?   

Edited November 28, 2020 by aztek

[ethereal_scout]

Not really, I just take it as a given fact. ie 2 vacancies, 20 applicants - 2 will get in 18 won't.

What happens to the 18 that don't?

[LightAngel]

I just saw this video and I highly recommend it. 

 

 

Poverty isn't a lack of character...

 

 

 

 

[ethereal_scout]

Cheers for that....

[Eldorado]

The Case for 'Universal Property'

In 1976, as oil production commenced on Alaska’s North Slope, the state amended its constitution to create a new entity called the Alaska Permanent Fund. The idea was the brainchild of Republican governor Jay Hammond, who believed that Alaska’s oil wealth belonged to all its residents, and that all should receive equal annual dividends from its extraction.

The fund is “permanent” because some of the money is invested so that future generations will receive dividends too once oil production ends. “That money and the resources it comes from belong to all Alaskans,” Hammond wrote, “not to government or to a few ‘J.R. Ewings’ who in states like Texas own almost all the oil.”

Not surprisingly, the fund has proven enormously popular across the state’s political spectrum. The record payout, more than $3,000 per person including a one-time rebate, came under Governor Sarah Palin in 2008.

Full article at Scientific American: Link

[LightAngel]

19 hours ago, ethereal_scout said:

Cheers for that....

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

I hope people will watch the video and understand the ideas - I have similar thoughts. 

 

[Tatetopa]

I was talking to a former Marine combat engineer who I shared an office with and he told me some of the projects they worked on.  Part of it in Iraq and Afghanistan  did not entail military objectives but public relations.

The helped build communities.  They helped groups become self sufficient with some technology, some training and a few resources. Building schools, public spaces, power generation, water purification.  They helped create the infrastructure for an economy that would provide jobs and a way to build resources   They did some technical and job training in small doses.  HE seemed to think it accomplished goals and left communities with a better more self sufficient life.

I wonder why we don't try this at home?  What to some of the communities that live in poverty in the US need?   Maybe some resources, some training, some advice would go a ways to helping th epoor here at home.

Step one would probably be to abandon the notion that those people deserve it because they lazy or stupid. 

 

[ethereal_scout]

You mean, giving them a job on tax?

I'm convinced 100% employment is a 'communist' thing - meaning all those who tell you to "get a job" a in the closet so to speak.

[aztek]

On 11/27/2020 at 9:23 PM, ethereal_scout said:

Not really, I just take it as a given fact. ie 2 vacancies, 20 applicants - 2 will get in 18 won't.

What happens to the 18 that don't?

they move on, and keep looking someplace else?  what do you think they should do?

[ethereal_scout]

I'll get to the point, are you for decent welfare for the unemployed?

Because most of the voices from the "Get a Job" side of the fence think we can eat grass.

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, ethereal_scout said:

I'll get to the point, are you for decent welfare for the unemployed?

Because most of the voices from the "Get a Job" side of the fence think we can eat grass.

Depends on your definition of "decent".  It should not be enough that makes having a job worthless.  

[aztek]

you already made your point, you want lifelong handouts for  UNWILLING to be employed,   and i'm very much against  that, it is a parasitic state of mind

[+OverSword]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:04 PM, ethereal_scout said:

When an employer says "no". And before you mention it - the next one says "no" as well.

It's not someone else's responsibility to make you useful.  In the USA there are resources available to anyone  to be trained in a new skill if you contact your states employment office.  You have to make the effort though.    

[+OverSword]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:31 PM, LightAngel said:

I just saw this video and I highly recommend it. 

 

 

Poverty isn't a lack of character...

 

 

 

 

I love his example of George Orwell lived in poverty.  Here is a question, what brought Orwell out of poverty?  Here is the answer, a healthy economy, not welfare. 

I am a proponent of the UBI, bot not the way we are currently structured in the USA.  The issue is how we are currently taxed.  Andrew Yang had an innovative way to tax called a value added tax that theoretically fund UBI in the USA.  I think this is the video where he explains it.  If it's not here but anyone is interested I recommend that you listen to the entire interview.

 

[ethereal_scout]

Assuming you believe in Private Ownership and a normal security fence......how do you get in?

My point being that employers aren't a charity, they're a business and people cost money. They'll usually employee as few people as they need to do any task of work. At any moment of time its possible that only 60% (made up number) of the population is required to service the demand created by the consumers. Thus leaving 40% of the population with nothing to do. Why penalise these people when you can't be both sides of the works gate?