Homo Erectus or - Neanderthalensis in America

[cormac mac airt]

31 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

I feel if it was found there, or if it was a hoax, there'd be more written about it in either direction. 

My guess would be that it's so far out of the way of most outsiders that few actually know about it enough to care. Which makes it sound more like a local myth or legend. 

cormac

[Hanslune]

50 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

My guess would be that it's so far out of the way of most outsiders that few actually know about it enough to care. Which makes it sound more like a local myth or legend. 

cormac

Sounds like a mission for an Anthropology  grad student from the nearest University to check out.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Hanslune

[Nobu]

8 hours ago, Abramelin said:

That's why I had sent a letter to the monastery to ask for a copy of that newspaper article, of which a copy was displayed alongside the skull. And I never got an answer (see link in the first post).

I wanted to read that article, so I could judge by myself how valid the age of the skull was.

Was the letter in Spanish? In my experience if it wasn’t it was likely laid to the side and eventually discarded.

A ticket for me is 500 dollars with a nice 22 hour layover in Cancun. I may go at the end of the month.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Nobu

[Abramelin]

4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Homo Erectus or - Neanderthalensis in America? 

if that one skull was real .,there would be so many more found, if they made it over to the Americas

Why? You think it was a mass invasion?

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Nobu said:

Was the letter in Spanish? In my experience if it wasn’t it was likely laid to the side and eventually discarded.

A ticket for me is 500 dollars with a nice 22 hour layover in Cancun. I may go at the end of the month.

The letter I wrote was in Spanish.

[Mellon Man]

6 hours ago, Nobu said:

Was the letter in Spanish? In my experience if it wasn’t it was likely laid to the side and eventually discarded.

A ticket for me is 500 dollars with a nice 22 hour layover in Cancun. I may go at the end of the month.

That would be awesome. 
Do you have any training within the field? 

[Mellon Man]

9 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

I feel if it was found there, or if it was a hoax, there'd be more written about it in either direction. 

Not necessarily. There are huge ‘discoveries’ made every year, when sieving through already known archives. 

[Mellon Man]

10 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Homo Erectus or - Neanderthalensis in America? 

if that one skull was real .,there would be so many more found, if they made it over to the Americas

I would disagree. The reasoning is fallacious. 

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Mellon Man said:

Not necessarily. There are huge ‘discoveries’ made every year, when sieving through already known archives. 

There are, to an extent. But there's finding a new species via fossil like Ardy and then there's vastly changing the human prehistory of the americas. 

[Mellon Man]

1 hour ago, ShadowSot said:

There are, to an extent. But there's finding a new species via fossil like Ardy and then there's vastly changing the human prehistory of the americas. 

I do not follow your logic. Please elaborate, given the above fallacy. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 minutes ago, Mellon Man said:

I do not follow your logic. Please elaborate, given the above fallacy. 

Frightening isn't it, could you actually understand what the point was if that post?

[docyabut2]

11 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Why? You think it was a mass invasion?

Nope, but if a Homo Erectus or a Neanderthal made it to the Americas, more of their families bones would be found.

[Hanslune]

28 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Nope, but if a Homo Erectus or a Neanderthal made it to the Americas, more of their families bones would be found.

Not necessarily so. We don't know if HE buried their dead. Burying the bodies greatly increases the chance of their survival as findable bones - left out for scavengers - not so much. However, the Americas has been well looked over for 'odd' stone tool and to my knowledge no HE like industries have been found.

Lets say some bands of HE made it to America. (there is a term I cannot remember it refers to releasing a small number of mammals into a very large space they will spread out excessively and be unable to support the population because they are spread to thin) if this happened they would have had to mate within their own family group excessively which leads to problems and decline.

https://www.sapiens.org/culture/hominin-burial/

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

Nope, but if a Homo Erectus or a Neanderthal made it to the Americas, more of their families bones would be found.

That also depends on the soil the bones are in. When the soil is acidic, not much will be left. That's why I think you won't find many bones of any human or animal in the soil of for instance the Amazonian rainforest.

The skull this thread is about may be nothing but a chance discovery.

[ShadowSot]

5 hours ago, Mellon Man said:

I do not follow your logic. Please elaborate, given the above fallacy. 

Most of the discoveries found by digging up older finds lost due to time or error are neat and interesting but not really major. 

 Something like this would be a pretty major thing; someone to dig it up, recognize it, date it. And it's a pretty major shift in what was believed about human arrival to the Americas. Not a tweak but a big deal. 

[Abramelin]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:51 PM, Manwon Lender said:

The problem with Homo Erectus or Neanderthals making to the Americas is the fact that during the time they existed the Americas were separated from the rest of the world by water, in other words the Americas were like today a gigantic island. Since commonly excepted scientific opinions agree that Africa was the cradle of life concerning human ansestry and all life forms that would evolve into humans started there, there would have been no way for primitive human ansestors to get there.

JIMO

Can you give me a list of ice-ages in the last 2,5 million years? I have tried to find that list, but nada.

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Can you give me a list of ice-ages in the last 2,5 million years? I have tried to find that list, but nada.

Does this help Abe?

Praetiglian Glacial Stage – 2.588 My BP:

2.58 My BP: start of Gelasian Stage of Pleistocene

1.8 My BP: start of Calabrian stage of Pleistocene

Eburonian Glacial Stage – 1.78 My BP

Waalian Interglacial Stage – 1.6 My BP

Menapian Glacial Stage – 1.4 My BP

Bavelian Stage – 1.2 My BP

Cromerian Complex – 866,000 BP

Elsterian Glacial Stage – 460,000 BP

Holstein Interglacial Stage – 410,000 BP

Saalian Glacial Stage – 380,000 BP

Eemian Interglacial Stage - 125,000 BP

Weichselian Glacial Stage – 115,000 BP

Start of Holocene/end of Pleistocene 9700 BC

The above may not be complete but should give you a good general idea. 

cormac

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Can you give me a list of ice-ages in the last 2,5 million years? I have tried to find that list, but nada.

Scientists have recorded five significant ice ages throughout the Earth’s history: the Huronian (2.4-2.1 billion years ago), Cryogenian (850-635 million years ago), Andean-Saharan (460-430 mya), Karoo (360-260 mya) and Quaternary (2.6 mya-present). Approximately a dozen major glaciations have occurred over the past 1 million years, the largest of which peaked 650,000 years ago and lasted for 50,000 years. The most recent glaciation period, often known simply as the “Ice Age,” reached peak conditions some 18,000 years ago before giving way to the interglacial Holocene epoch 11,700 years ag

At the height of the recent glaciation, the ice grew to more than 12,000 feet thick as sheets spread across Canada, Scandinavia, Russia and South America. Corresponding sea levels plunged more than 400 feet, while global temperatures dipped around 10 degrees Fahrenheit on average and up to 40 degrees in some areas. In North America, the region of the Gulf Coast states was dotted with the pine forests and prairie grasses that are today associated with the northern states and Canada

https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/ice-age

Hope this helps

 

 

 

CLOSE

[Abramelin]

Thanks Cormac and Manwon.

From the lists you both posted, it is clear that around the time the owner of the skull is supposed to have lived, the Bering Strait was open water.

So I am a bit puzzled by the entry in this blog:

https://humanorigins.co.za/crossing-beringia/

[cormac mac airt]

57 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Thanks Cormac and Manwon.

From the lists you both posted, it is clear that around the time the owner of the skull is supposed to have lived, the Bering Strait was open water.

So I am a bit puzzled by the entry in this blog:

https://humanorigins.co.za/crossing-beringia/

With no actual human remains found at all I’d chalk it up to wishful thinking. 
 

cormac

[Abramelin]

20 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

With no actual human remains found at all I’d chalk it up to wishful thinking. 
 

cormac

I was puzzled by this part:

"For example, the Beringia land bridge could have been crossed roughly 134 to 131 thousand years ago, within the age window of the mastodon site. "

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Thanks Cormac and Manwon.

From the lists you both posted, it is clear that around the time the owner of the skull is supposed to have lived, the Bering Strait was open water.

So I am a bit puzzled by the entry in this blog:

https://humanorigins.co.za/crossing-beringia/

I read the article you provided and was interesting, but there are some major problems with their theories. Many people are not aware that Genetic Testing has been conducted worldwide to answer the very question we are discussing. according to Genetic testing Homo Sapiens did not even venture into East Asia until approximately 60,000 years ago. It appears that their migration in Siberia occurred around 40,000 years, and when you take into account that the Bering Strait Land Bridge was not even exposed until possible 25,000 years ago things become clear. So based upon this and what is known about human migration based upon genetics their is little to no chance that an earlier migration occurred. In addition to that all indigenous peoples who lived in the Americas can trace their Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA or mDNA) to the migration that occurred between approximately 35,000 to ? years ago like the current excepted theories state.

The last Pleistocene ice age reached a maximum 22,000-14,000 yBP. During this period two large ice sheets have been identified in the Northern Hemisphere: the Laurentide Ice Sheet covering parts of Eastern North America, and the Scandinavian Ice Sheet covering parts of northern Europe. The cordilleran Ice Sheet over western North America . , .

A simplified scenario of early human migration routes and dates. Modern humans originated in Africa, probably around 200,000 years ago (200 KYA). One or more routes out of Africa are possible, but the number of individuals involved was very limited, with perhaps only 600 females. Migration probably followed a coastal route, with humans arriving in the Indian subcontinent about 70,000 years ago. The analysis by Shi et al. [2] suggests that humans arrived in southern East Asia around 60,000 years ago and then proceeded north to occupy northern East Asia and Japan.

The work of Shi et al. [2] also indicates that human founder populations were small and isolated, and that the initial migration signal may be difficult to detect, especially when it is hidden beneath layers of subsequent migrations. In part this problem can be resolved by sampling peripheral, more isolated populations. Analysis of ancient DNA can also cut through the layers of time and is an important test of conclusions based on DNA from living populations. Ancient DNA served as an important test of the out-of-Africa theory, which predicted that modern humans replaced regional archaic hominids. Indeed, analysis of mtDNA extracted from Neanderthal specimens and from early modern human remains strongly suggests that Neanderthals did not contribute to our genome [9].

https://jbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/jbiol115 

I hope this helps, Enjoy

Edited November 14, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Abramelin]

No, that doesn't help: you posted a paper from 2009. Now it is known Neanderthals contributed to our genome.

And this thread is not about modern humans...

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Abramelin

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

No, that doesn't help: you posted a paper from 2009. Now it is known Neanderthals contributed to our genome.

That has nothing to do with the Migration routes based upon mtDNA or the periods of ice ages that would have allowed the migration into the Americans occur so when this is considered Neandertal contribution to out genome has nothing to do with the facts, and that is to say it isn't impossible but there are no facts to back it.

JIMO

[Abramelin]

The genetic dating of migration periods/routes into the Americas only concerns modern humans. Am I right so far?

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Abramelin