You Are Right, But You Are Wrong.

[jmccr8]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Ive explained this many times 

Hi Walker

Correct.

Point is for the last 4-5 years it's usually the same people talking to each other and we are well aware of your position so why keep using deceptive descriptions with us? Likely a lot of the lurkers are just as familiar as we are so it's pointless because you know you will get called on it.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

When speaking  in person or online with people. The common term for such beings is god(s) You will notice i almost never capitalise the word, because for me god is like cat ie just our common name for something

You are the only person I know that thinks you need to make these weird asertations and associations, okay I might know a couple but you are at the head of the class.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

If i dont call it god I have to go into all my background  experience with it.  I have to explain about the nature of the cosmic consciousness, and my contact with it from the age of 13 

Absolutely almost kinda correct but not necessary as we are still the same people in the room that have explained that all your revelation stories are not evidence and have told you what is required as evidence and argument is not solid without it no matter how much you wish it did. You came to a cigar bar and are complaining that people are smoking.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I dint mean you will physically see them (although you may in the future ) I meant "see' them as perceive them as gods 

Today we are a bit more likely  to see them as benevolent powerful alien beings, but most people still think of them, and call them, gods. 

Ps strange as it may seem most people are a lot more comfortable accepting and believing tha t another human is in contact with a god or an angel than with a powerful kind alien entity   It is a kind of cultural acceptance/tolerance , which is another reason i use the word 

To be honest this is Dany's thread and we are off track but can pick it up in the other thread.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Correct.

Point is for the last 4-5 years it's usually the same people talking to each other and we are well aware of your position so why keep using deceptive descriptions with us? Likely a lot of the lurkers are just as familiar as we are so it's pointless because you know you will get called on it.

You are the only person I know that thinks you need to make these weird asertations and associations, okay I might know a couple but you are at the head of the class.

Absolutely almost kinda correct but not necessary as we are still the same people in the room that have explained that all your revelation stories are not evidence and have told you what is required as evidence and argument is not solid without it no matter how much you wish it did. You came to a cigar bar and are complaining that people are smoking.

To be honest this is Dany's thread and we are off track but can pick it up in the other thread.

jmccr8

just  a quick comment 

I dont write for particular posters or groups of posters, i write as if I am writing to a million unknown people. 

Your comments are probably correct, yet even you ask why i do it. 

if you  are familiar with my reasoning , why ask? 

Ps its not deceptive either deliberately or incidentally 

I see my entity AS the same "god"  humans have known for tens of thousands of years   Personally i dont see it as a god, but most people would disagree if it entered into their lives.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Nuclear Wessel]

16 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Its pretty easy to distinguish internal voices from  external ones

Tell that to a schizophrenic who experiences auditory hallucinations.

You're an interesting fellow, Walker. Just not for the reasons you think you are.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Nuclear Wessel

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Tell that to a schizophrenic who experiences auditory hallucinations.

You're an interesting fellow, Walker. Just not for the reasons you think you are.

 

If i was schizophrenic that MIGHT be true. I don't know . 

I do know how annoying it is to have hallucinations caused by painkillers and lack of sleep  in hospital but i always knew what they  were and, after a bit of practice was able to use  mental disciplines to prevent them.  The psychologist who came in to check on me (because all/most patients under heavy medication tend to  have frightening hallucinations)  said most people were afraid, even paranoid, from the hallucinations (which ranged form the mundane- a grandmotherly figure in a rocking chair-  to the terrifying -being set on fire and cut in half)  He said that he had never met a patient who was able to eliminate them (using a specific technique i learned as a child )

I do know that i am perfectly mentally healthy.(never even had anxiety or depression)   There are skills and techniques you can learn, not only to identify and differentiate external experiences from  internal ones, but actually to eliminate the  internal ones.  

It is kinda amusing, if sad, that some people  use mental illness to eliminate actual contacts with unusual entities.  Yes this is often the case, but not always,

  Thus a psychologist won't assume a person seeing a ghost or an angel is mentally  unwell. They will run a series of interviews and tests to make a diagnoses  If the person is found to be mentally well and functional,  they will put the experience in the unexplained basket 

From my pov, there is something wrong with the minds of humans who cannot see/perceive some of the natural aspects of the world around them.  It is as if the y have a disability, like colour blindness or deafness to certain frequencies.  

quote

The expert opinion is this 

The experience of voice hearing should not be confused with the normal inner voice that we all have in our minds when we are in good health. Voices caused by psychosis are profoundly different. They are as real as hearing a person in the same room speaking (and indeed research carried out by scientists has shown that the parts of the brain that are activated by hearing real speech, i.e. for detecting speech and generating language, are also active when voice hearers hear the voices coming from inside their heads).¹⁶ For some people the voices will be clear to hear, whereas for others they may appear as a constant mumbling in the background. Sometimes only one voice will be heard, but other people may hear a number of different voices at the same time.

 

https://livingwithschizophreniauk.org/information-sheets/understanding-voice-hearing/#:~:text=They remain one of the,indistinguishable from real people's voices.

BUT its more complex than this 

The illness itself must prevent a person from  using the normal methods of distinguishing inner voices from  external ones  eg external ones come through  the ear drums  and you can detect this and can thus detect direction movement   distance etc. of the source  When a sound is external  there is a background context (what other sounds, like wind or foot steps  or television,  come with the voice) 

Voices which lack those qualities are almost certainly   inner voices (everyone has them as far as i know. It is called your stream of consciousness or inner dialogue )

However, it's totally  different in resonance, timbre, etc. from  an external sound or voice. 

for example i have constant tinnitus (i can hear it now and know it is originating inside my head) 

At the same time i can hear a chair scraping  the floor 3 metres behind me in another room ,the dogs gently winging as the y wait for breakfast  (also behind me)  My wife typing on her computer (same direction and approx. distance.  I can hear my computer humming to my immediate left and my typing.

Because these sounds come through my ears i can detect distance and direction and know the y are external sounds quite  unlike the tinnitus which exists only in my head, and my own inner voice which also is in my brain, but is a conscious construct under my control . 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Mr Walker

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

He said that he had never met a patient who was able to eliminate them (using a specific technique i learned as a child )

The smart money says you hallucinated the doctor.

[Mr Walker]

2 minutes ago, eight bits said:

The smart money says you hallucinated the doctor.

lol I 'll take that bet .

It would be in the detailed case notes kept by the RAH. 

He explained it was standard practice to check on every patient on high painkillers and deprived of sleep   because hallucinations and paranoia were so common.

    I went through my waking hallucinations and nightmares and explained how i understood them and was dealing with them I explained that, while i got annoyed by them (especially the old lady in the rocking chair who wanted to keep talking tome )   I wasn't afraid or worried by them as i knew exactly what the y were,  and that i had used a technique to banish them(it took a few days of practice to get it to work effectively but basically I took each hallucinatory  construct in my mind, and placed it inside a paddock, surrounded by a big hedge. I locked the gate on it   It stayed in there,in an unseen section of my mind,  and never bothered me again.

he was fascinated, and said he had never heard of anything like it.

I explained that I  had learned these techniques as a child to eliminate  scary visual images in my mind.

 

 

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I can hear my computer humming to my immediate left and my typing.

Walker

What are you typing on

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Walker

What are you typing on

jmccr8

lol Normal  (Asus) desktop computer 

Mine has a dvd drive in the top section.

 I can hear the click of the keys as I type, and the click of the mouse.   

Ps i learned  to type (but not touch type) as a kid   on a typewriter like the one in your image.

I did learn all the qwerty keys.  

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Quote

he was fascinated, and said he had never heard of anything like it.

[Mr Walker]

53 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Well ask around and see how many people have the mental skills and disciplines to "lock" hallucinations, caused by powerful painkillers, into a part of the brain where they cease to be present 

It is called the abilty to compartmentalise your mind.  

I learned the skill when very young and cut of all conscious visual imagery in my mind to stop me seeing a room full of poisonous snakes every time i went to bed and the light went off .

It was only a small step further to compartmentalise hallucinations, which are just  induced visual imagery  

This article gives a hint at how/why a mind is able to do this.

 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/how-your-mind-protects-you-against-hallucinations

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Nuclear Wessel]

20 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

If i was schizophrenic that MIGHT be true. I don't know .

Lol, it has nothing at all to do with you. It is true, and it's pretty well established.

Quote

I do know how annoying it is to have hallucinations caused by painkillers and lack of sleep  in hospital but i always knew what they  were and, after a bit of practice was able to use  mental disciplines to prevent them.  The psychologist who came in to check on me (because all/most patients under heavy medication tend to  have frightening hallucinations)  said most people were afraid, even paranoid, from the hallucinations (which ranged form the mundane- a grandmotherly figure in a rocking chair-  to the terrifying -being set on fire and cut in half)  He said that he had never met a patient who was able to eliminate them (using a specific technique i learned as a child )

I'm sure he said that just like I'm sure that  you were able to use a technique that you learned as a kid to eliminate the hallucinations You have a proclivity for emphasizing on points that distinguish you from regular people. Not unexpected from somebody with narcissistic tendencies.

Quote

I do know that i am perfectly mentally healthy.(never even had anxiety or depression)   There are skills and techniques you can learn, not only to identify and differentiate external experiences from  internal ones, but actually to eliminate the  internal ones.  

When did you get a psych evaluation, and where? Also, why was this psych evaluation conducted? I am just asking because No Solid Ground was quite suspicious of your state of mental health. You continuously insist that you're "perfectly mentally healthy" and that it has also been "verified", but the fact that NSG was a clinical psychologist and expressed some concern (but refused to go into further detail regarding his suspicions on the matter as he claimed it was "unprofessional" to do so) makes me wonder if you actually were evaluated and if you were, I suspect that you weren't being entirely truthful.

Quote

It is kinda amusing, if sad, that some people  use mental illness to eliminate actual contacts with unusual entities.  Yes this is often the case, but not always,

You're right. Some people have hallucinations for strange reasons, others are liars, and others are genuinely mentally ill. We have no objective evidence for any of these entities.

Quote

Thus a psychologist won't assume a person seeing a ghost or an angel is mentally  unwell

They would determine if there was any drug use involved, stress, sleep deprivation, etc. If none of these are the cause then the psychologist would likely assume that yes, the person is either mentally unwell or they are lying.

Quote

From my pov, there is something wrong with the minds of humans who cannot see/perceive some of the natural aspects of the world around them.  It is as if the y have a disability, like colour blindness or deafness to certain frequencies.  

From my POV there is something wrong with your mind.

 

Quote

The illness itself must prevent a person from  using the normal methods of distinguishing inner voices from  external ones 

Yes, their distorted sense of reality.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Nuclear Wessel

[Mr Walker]

7 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Lol, it has nothing at all to do with you. It is true, and it's pretty well established.

I'm sure he said that just like I'm sure that  you were able to use a technique that you learned as a kid to eliminate the hallucinations You have a proclivity for emphasizing on points that distinguish you from regular people. Not unexpected from somebody with narcissistic tendencies.

When did you get a psych evaluation, and where? Also, why was this psych evaluation conducted? I am just asking because No Solid Ground was quite suspicious of your state of mental health. You continuously insist that you're "perfectly mentally healthy" and that it has also been "verified", but the fact that NSG was a clinical psychologist and expressed some concern (but refused to go into further detail regarding his suspicions on the matter as he claimed it was "unprofessional" to do so) makes me wonder if you actually were evaluated and if you were, I suspect that you weren't being entirely truthful.

You're right. Some people have hallucinations for strange reasons, others are liars, and others are genuinely mentally ill. We have no objective evidence for any of these entities.

They would determine if there was any drug use involved, stress, sleep deprivation, etc. If none of these are the cause then the psychologist would likely assume that yes, the person is either mentally unwell or they are lying.

From my POV there is something wrong with your mind.

 

Yes, their distorted sense of reality.

I dont know because ive never had a mental illness

The literature is interesting but inconclusive because our knowledge is sill evolving 

eg You can distinguish sounds coming through your ears by the resonance of the ear drums, the variations in tone with movement, the alteration of direction as the source moves etc

If a schizophrenic is NOT doing this then there is something more than just a mental mispercetion   ie the y are allowing a belief to override their sensory inputs,  and capacity to think logically 

I am what i am. 

I am a bit unusual but not unique.

Ive quite openly discussed my physical  and  mental examinations. Its why i can be sure I am not mentally ill,and not hallucinating or delusional

The first time i was 22 and had just been visited by a being who spoke with me and removed a long term nicotine addiction After smoking for almost 10 years I never smoked again 

This was a powerful and compelling  physical manifestation  

Naturally i wanted to get my mental health  checked 

I was studying psychology as part of my course and was able to get a full evaluation.  This involved both psychologists and a psychiatrist  from The RAH and Adelaide un.

i One was a woman ; the others, men. One was an atheist one a believer and i dont know  (or cant remeber ) about the others 

It involved mosty interviews and some paper questionnaire s The y asked things like any religious beliefs or back ground  (Atheist and secular humanist) 

It  took quite a few hours over two days  as i remember it 

The conclusions were I was highly functional in my abilty to discern imagination and dreams from reality (something i already knew)  

  I was not showing any signs of delusions or hallucinations 

I could describe and explain  wht had happened and how i reality checked and context checked the event as it was happening and afterwards.

  I was not afraid but just interested  to get an independent opinion  

The consensus expressed by all of them, including the atheist, was that i had encountered something real and physical but inexplicable and unknown 

The y told me that the y have a surprising number of such cases, where people encounter real things which cannot be explained, although, in MOST cases, it comes from an inability to distinguish the inner mental landscape from the external/ real one. 

 

several  decades later  because i was demonstrating some unusual abilities and thought i might have a brain tumour after watching Phenomenon   I iwent in for another check up with the same results.

I also have had several advanced MRI scans which show a perfectly healthy brain  but with an enlarged pre frontal cortex (something found in  Einstein's brain as well as Rene Descartes) and known to be associated with certain  human skills like executive function) 

quote 

The term executive function is defined slightly differently depending on where you find the definition. In general, executive functions focus on controlling short-sighted, reflexive behaviors to take part in things like planning, decision-making, problem-solving, self-control, and acting with long-term goals in mind. They are higher-level cognitive processes that people tend to display greater proficiency in than other animals—thus you could argue they are some of the functions that truly help to make human cognition unique.

https://www.neuroscientificallychallenged.com/blog/2014/5/16/know-your-brain-prefrontal-cortex

For all my adult  life i have been a highly functioning human being, successful in school, university, work, leisure, and family/community.

I have always had   regular medical check ups.  Mainly physical but  including basic psychological evaluations by my gps and online  testing they gave me   (i had the same Gps . for 35 years. I  knew them all personally and taught all their children. We socialised and attended events together, so the y knew me very well  Ive had my latest GP for 6 years since I retired and we moved to a new town)  and again He hasn't noticed anything wrong with my mental health 

No one ahs ever questioned my sanity but some have been surprised and helped by my abilities  and yep I am considered a little bit eccentric

If you  checked my medical record you  would find that i have never once had depression or anxiety 

Modern science now explains tha t i may have longer alles which occur in about 13 % of humans and largely  prevent/protect against  depression   

They would determine if there was any drug use involved, stress, sleep deprivation, etc. If none of these are the cause then the psychologist would likely assume that yes, the person is either mentally unwell or they are lying.

 

True and all those things were eliminated in my case  

But no, not one of 8 psychologists/psychiatrists i have consulted or spoken with ever assumed i was lying or unwell.

The y accepted that i had encountered (like a few of their other patients ) something beyond their abilty to interpret but something physical and real 

Only a person who allowed pre existing beliefs to overrule clinical evidences would assume a person  who saw an angel (or something we think of as an angel )   was lying  or deluded 

Which is just as well, because  over half of some   nationalities  claim to have encountered things like angels and ghosts 

If the y were all unwell or lying humanity would be in big trouble.

  The only thing "wrong"  with my mind is that is not like your own.  We all tend to judge others by our own abilities  understandings and experiences. 

From MY POV there is somehtng wrong with the senses and minds of people who cannot or do not perceive parts of the reality around them.

I just happen to be in a minority    However it is a minority with considerable advantages over the majority,  and again those are reflected in my life 

  The quality of every aspect of my life, for 70 years, is the best evidence that there is nothing wrong with my mind. Indeed it is much healthier/fitter  than my body   

Edited November 21, 2020 by Mr Walker