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PsiSeeker

The oddness of locality

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PsiSeeker

When reading a book or watching a good film there's something about one's state of present awareness that suspends itself as one experiences "somewhere not here" despite being present in the moment.  With the book one envisions characters, the words of the page disappears as one is molded into the story.  With the film one is almost with the characters themselves as the empty space somehow, finding out about a thing hindsight that's present somehow.  I feel perhaps this is what is what meditators of the practice of Samadhi mean by "becoming one with the object of meditation".  Of course in the meditator's universe this is done by volition, not happenstance flow of one's wake state.  That is, with perfect watchful wakefulness one achieves this effect.

 Similar, I feel, sorts of things occur when consuming copious amounts of triptamine substances like DMT.  One is transported into another reality that feels just as real as where one is now.  Some say they don't believe in anything they can't confirm with their senses!  Indeed!  Is there anything real, concrete about this experience of the suspension of one's momentary locality?  Perhaps as a phenomenological thing, for which one can certainly argue a certain realness for however this is not what the concrete materialist implied about their sense perception I'd say, the solipsistic fool, working themselves neatly into a cage.

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Bendy Demon

It's commonly called..(looks around then leans closer and whispers...)....imagination.

The nice thing as that none of it is real too so you can go back to real life when you are done.

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Desertrat56
13 minutes ago, Bendy Demon said:

It's commonly called..(looks around then leans closer and whispers...)....imagination.

The nice thing as that none of it is real too so you can go back to real life when you are done.

I think there is more to it than that.  Last night I watched a really silly romance and was thinking how bad the dialogue was but I still felt the my face reflect the emotion of the characters.  I don't think I really identified with any of them but I was watching the story unfold and it was predictable but even so something in my brain was doing something that had nothing to do with what was actually going on around me.

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Cookie Monster
12 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

When reading a book or watching a good film there's something about one's state of present awareness that suspends itself as one experiences "somewhere not here" despite being present in the moment.  With the book one envisions characters, the words of the page disappears as one is molded into the story.  With the film one is almost with the characters themselves as the empty space somehow, finding out about a thing hindsight that's present somehow.  I feel perhaps this is what is what meditators of the practice of Samadhi mean by "becoming one with the object of meditation".  Of course in the meditator's universe this is done by volition, not happenstance flow of one's wake state.  That is, with perfect watchful wakefulness one achieves this effect.

 Similar, I feel, sorts of things occur when consuming copious amounts of triptamine substances like DMT.  One is transported into another reality that feels just as real as where one is now.  Some say they don't believe in anything they can't confirm with their senses!  Indeed!  Is there anything real, concrete about this experience of the suspension of one's momentary locality?  Perhaps as a phenomenological thing, for which one can certainly argue a certain realness for however this is not what the concrete materialist implied about their sense perception I'd say, the solipsistic fool, working themselves neatly into a cage.

As we go through life having random conversations, random thoughts, and random interactions with other people, we encounter odd coincidences. For instance you randomly think about a broken arm needing an x-ray and the next day someone you know breaks their arm. Those types of coincidences.

The sceptics say it is a coincidence, those who are openminded know something odd just happened but cannot explain it. If they know about quantum mechanics they might speculate on non-local forces at work between their minds and the macroscopic world.

So, let us have some strange fun. I set a challenge for anybody willing to give it a go which will take all day Saturday or all day Sunday. If you complete it and follow my instructions it will scare the living daylights out of you. I promise.

Step 1: Stop all thoughts in your mind for your chosen day.

Step 2: Unless you are a Zen master then step one is going to be hard and you are going to keep failing to stop thoughts entering your mind. That is fine. But every time you catch yourself thinking, return to stopping all thoughts in your mind.

Step 3: If you are new to the above meditation you are going to need to do it for a few hours until you reach the point where you find it hard to have any thoughts at all. This is where I need you to get too. It might take you 2-3 hours of shutting down your thoughts.

Step 4: Now you have no thoughts going on, we are going to introduce just one thought. You then spend the rest of the day switching between no thoughts and that one thought.

Step 5: You have now only put one thought out into the universe, meaning the universe has few options to work with when creating the experiences that come your way. As there is only one thought to work with it will use it. You will get lots of weird coincidences starting to occur the same day.

Mind has primacy. The external universe is built off the contents of your mind. You will get the impression that the universe knows your thoughts and uses them when constructing reality.

Edited by Cookie Monster

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PsiSeeker
On 11/21/2020 at 4:29 AM, Bendy Demon said:

It's commonly called..(looks around then leans closer and whispers...)....imagination.

The nice thing as that none of it is real too so you can go back to real life when you are done.

Okay, we can work with that.  Where precisely is this imagination?  More, where precisely is this mind that's supposed to house this imagination?  Why should it be approximately in the location of one's sense awareness responding to external stimulis?  There is nothing that says that it should be at the top of Mt. Everest!  I think the orienting reflex might be to blame perhaps.

It's just an odd thing I've noticed, also, typically imagination is a thing of volition.  This is something that just catches one happenstance.

Why is it that sometimes the bus ride home from work is a hour like hell of a wait and other times it's perfectly fine?  How is the entire whole of one's experience with existence and reality managed in this locality and, when day dreaming and not present, where is one?  Where precisely?  Where does one go when one dreams when one is still asleep in one's bed?

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Mr Walker
On 11/21/2020 at 5:27 AM, Cookie Monster said:

As we go through life having random conversations, random thoughts, and random interactions with other people, we encounter odd coincidences. For instance you randomly think about a broken arm needing an x-ray and the next day someone you know breaks their arm. Those types of coincidences.

The sceptics say it is a coincidence, those who are openminded know something odd just happened but cannot explain it. If they know about quantum mechanics they might speculate on non-local forces at work between their minds and the macroscopic world.

So, let us have some strange fun. I set a challenge for anybody willing to give it a go which will take all day Saturday or all day Sunday. If you complete it and follow my instructions it will scare the living daylights out of you. I promise.

Step 1: Stop all thoughts in your mind for your chosen day.

Step 2: Unless you are a Zen master then step one is going to be hard and you are going to keep failing to stop thoughts entering your mind. That is fine. But every time you catch yourself thinking, return to stopping all thoughts in your mind.

Step 3: If you are new to the above meditation you are going to need to do it for a few hours until you reach the point where you find it hard to have any thoughts at all. This is where I need you to get too. It might take you 2-3 hours of shutting down your thoughts.

Step 4: Now you have no thoughts going on, we are going to introduce just one thought. You then spend the rest of the day switching between no thoughts and that one thought.

Step 5: You have now only put one thought out into the universe, meaning the universe has few options to work with when creating the experiences that come your way. As there is only one thought to work with it will use it. You will get lots of weird coincidences starting to occur the same day.

Mind has primacy. The external universe is built off the contents of your mind. You will get the impression that the universe knows your thoughts and uses them when constructing reality.

I do not believe it is possible to stop all thoughts. eg if all thoughts are stopped how do you then know how or when to introduce the one thought 

If thought was stopped, time would be stopped. All conscious awareness' would be stopped . ie you wouldn't even be " unconscious"  you'd be dead 

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PsiSeeker
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I do not believe it is possible to stop all thoughts. eg if all thoughts are stopped how do you then know how or when to introduce the one thought 

If thought was stopped, time would be stopped. All conscious awareness' would be stopped . ie you wouldn't even be " unconscious"  you'd be dead 

It is, in the state of Dhyana all thought is stopped and one is constantly directed to a single over arching thought or to no thought at all.  In is simply in a sort of concentrated state of stasis.

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Mr Walker
5 minutes ago, PsiSeeker said:

It is, in the state of Dhyana all thought is stopped and one is constantly directed to a single over arching thought or to no thought at all.  In is simply in a sort of concentrated state of stasis.

So I've read.

But i don't believe it  :) 

A silent mind is a dead mind.

Strong anaesthetic might stop consciousness, but even asleep our mind is conscious and thinking (well at least mine is )   You would not even be aware you existed if  you  were not thinking  

Plus tha t is not actually my understanding of the state of Dhyana.

Its actully a balanced state of mind where the mind is able to better concentrate (and concentrating is thinking) 

quote 

In the early texts, it is taught as a state of collected, full-body awareness in which mind becomes very powerful and still but not frozen, and is thus able to observe and gain insight into the changing flow of experience.[2][3] Later Theravada literature, in particular the Visuddhimagga, describes it as an abiding in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention,[4] characterized by non-dual consciousness.[5]

For me this is simply the normal state of mindfulness,  rather than the" monkey mind" often spoken of .

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Cookie Monster
4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I do not believe it is possible to stop all thoughts. eg if all thoughts are stopped how do you then know how or when to introduce the one thought 

If thought was stopped, time would be stopped. All conscious awareness' would be stopped . ie you wouldn't even be " unconscious"  you'd be dead 

You can stop all thoughts but not pure awareness.

Its hard at the start and takes a couple hours of constantly stopping yourself thinking each time you slip up. But at the end you will struggle to have any thoughts at all. You will be awake, fully conscious, fully aware of everything going on around you, but no thoughts will be arising in response to anything.

You wont be dead but you might well spot odd things happening with time (I know I have). I have had time freeze for a few seconds before outside of myself but not with my pure awareness.

It reveals the non-local aspect of reality too because as I said earlier no thoughts mean nothing for reality to work off with the experiences it sends you. And you can choose one or a small limited number of thoughts only and watch it use them to mould and shape how reality unfolds.

Edited by Cookie Monster
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Mr Walker
39 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You can stop all thoughts but not pure awareness.

Its hard at the start and takes a couple hours of constantly stopping yourself thinking each time you slip up. But at the end you will struggle to have any thoughts at all. You will be awake, fully conscious, fully aware of everything going on around you, but no thoughts will be arising in response to anything.

You wont be dead but you might well spot odd things happening with time (I know I have). I have had time freeze for a few seconds before outside of myself but not with my pure awareness.

It reveals the non-local aspect of reality too because as I said earlier no thoughts mean nothing for reality to work off with the experiences it sends you. And you can choose one or a small limited number of thoughts only and watch it use them to mould and shape how reality unfolds.

lol  just maybe this is possible as you  describe it but not for me 

I cant see any visual images and so all my consciousness is in words 

I dont have any unconscious thoughts ie I construct each thought in my mind, deliberately and consciously (I dont understand people who say that thoughts just come into their mind. or that they dont have control over their thoughts)  Thoughts physically CANNOT come into being unconsciously  , They have to be constructed That is the nature of language of the mind 

But then Ive never had a monkey mind, since i was a pre-schooler  Ie ive always been in conscious control of my thoughts and my behaviours 

So one part of your post is true for me I ALWAYs  choose my thoughts and control them, and have done for 65 years  and yes of course we use those thoughts to both construct our inner reality and, through our bodies and machines, to construct our external reality from, first imagination, to prediction of outcome, and completion of the task 

How else could it be ?  

So i just cant get it, and it is not really something i can even believe is possible.   

No thoughts? How do you know you are alive and not dead? There are short periods when I am asleep when   I have no conscious awareness (and this is how I envisage death)  but almost all the time I am fully conscious while sleeping, and busy consciously  constructing, directing, analysing, and simply enjoying, my dreams .

for me "no thoughts"  would be like that t brief period of total unconsciousness

Plus of course, our minds are connected to the universal consciousness, which gives us gnosis/ enlightenment ,removes emotional responses, and replaces them with total comprehension,  and makes us one with all things and all time 

It would be bad enough to give up my individual consciousness, but i would never surrender the connection to the universal consciousness.  

so even if i turned my mind off, it would remain connected to the universal consciousness and i would be one with everything unafraid and filled with peace and joy    

This description is a bit OTT or flowery but it encapsulates how the human mind should be and thus why would we never turn of the mind which provides us with this awareness Words like superman, or yogi, or exalted being, worry me This is how ALL humans should normally be. There is NOTHING in life to fear  The hardest fear to give up is fear itself There is no  need for  suffering in life because suffering is a  constructed perception.

Yes there can be pain but this can be managed and relieved in large part by the mind and can be a source of joy rather than suffering        

quote

The man of cosmic consciousness, never feeling himself as limited to a body or as reaching only to the brain, or only to the cerebral-lotus light of a thousand rays, instead feels by true intuitive power the ever-bubbling Bliss that dances in every particle of his little body, and in his big Cosmic Body of the universe, and in his absolute nature as one with the Eternal Spirit beyond manifested forms. The man into whose pure hand his divine bodily kingdom has been wholly delivered is no longer a human being with limited ego consciousness. In reality, he is the soul, individualized ever-existent, ever-conscious, ever-new Bliss, the pure reflection of Spirit, endowed with cosmic consciousness. Never a victim of imaginary perceptions, fanciful inspirations, or "wisdom" hallucinations, the superman is always intensely conscious of the Unmanifested Spirit and also of the entire cosmos in all its bewildering variety. With his consciousness extended and awakened in every particle in the circumambience of infinite space, the exalted yogi feels his little physical body and all its perceptions not as an ordinary human being, but in oneness with omniscient Spirit. Freed from the intoxications of delusion and delusive mortal limitations, the superman knows his earthly name and possessions, but is never possessed or limited by them. Living in the world, he is not of'the world. He is aware of hunger, thirst, and other conditions of the body, but his inner consciousness identifies itself, not with the body, but with Spirit. -- Read more: http://yogananda.com.au/pyr/cosmic_consciousness.html

 

I am part of the universe /universal consciousness and it is a part of me.

The two cannot be separated,  but the connection may die when my mind dies  (or it may not) 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Cookie Monster
6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

lol  just maybe this is possible as you  describe it but not for me 

I cant see any visual images and so all my consciousness is in words 

I dont have any unconscious thoughts ie I construct each thought in my mind, deliberately and consciously (I dont understand people who say that thoughts just come into their mind. or that they dont have control over their thoughts  Thoughts physically CANNOT come into being unconsciously  , They have to be constructed That is the nature of language of the mind 

But then Ive never had a monkey mind since i was a pre-schooler  Ie ive always been in conscious control of my thoughts and my behaviours 

So i just cant get it, and it s not really something i can even believe is possible 

No thoughts? How do you know you are alive and not dead? There are short periods when I am asleep when  have no conscious awareness but almost all the time I am fully conscious while sleeping, and busy consciously  constructing, directing, analysing, and simply enjoying, my dreams .

for me "no thoughts"  would be like that t brief period of total unconsciousness

Plus of course our minds are connected to the universal consciousness which gives us gnosis/ enlightenment ,removes emotional responses and replaces them with total comprehension,  and makes us one with all things and all time 

It would be bad enough to give up my individual consciousness, but i would never surrender the connection to the universal consciousness.  

so even if i turned my mind off it would remain connected to the universal consciousness and i would be one with everything unafraid and filled with peace and joy    

Watch a YouTube music video.

The watching of the images and listening of the sounds is not what you need to cease. You arent trying to end your awareness of what is going on. What you are doing is not allowing yourself to have any conscious thoughts in relation to it.

Our minds want to suck us into attaching thoughts to everything and its that we must stop. Its hard at first, but after a couple hours of trying you will be there. Once you have ceased thoughts, and maybe allow one type of thought, you can start experimenting and see the interplay between thoughts and what happens in reality.

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Mr Walker
21 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Watch a YouTube music video.

The watching of the images and listening of the sounds is not what you need to cease. You arent trying to end your awareness of what is going on. What you are doing is not allowing yourself to have any conscious thoughts in relation to it.

Our minds want to suck us into attaching thoughts to everything and its that we must stop. Its hard at first, but after a couple hours of trying you will be there. Once you have ceased thoughts, and maybe allow one type of thought, you can start experimenting and see the interplay between thoughts and what happens in reality.

Oh I think that is a mental discipline  i learned as a pre-schooler  Controlling and directing the construction of thoughts involves stopping unwanted thoughts before the y become conscious.

If i dont want to have thoughts i dont have them. (and again i dont really understand how people can have thoughts which they do not choose to have ) 

i have only the  thoughts i choose and construct Thus, rather than anger i will construct peace, rather than envy,  empathy, rather than hate i will construct love  etc . i use a lot of my "thought energy"  to imagining a future and strategising how to bring it about   That future could be just minutes ahead, or a decade 

 This has been the case for so long that it  is now innate and the only way i think. (although i also use a wide range of cognitive strategies   to improve cognitive performance )  

By building thoughts, you build first an inner reality, which you can then transform into an external reality.

  It is how i built my love for my wife, and why that love has remained constant for nearly 50 years.  

ps I dont listen to music or watch you tube videos  but i sort of get what you meant.

Sounds like a kind of  mild  fugue state   and given my current mental awareness tha t would be a step  backward rather than forward. ie i am always highly aware of everything around me and connected to it.  Limiting that   awareness  and  connection would be a step backwards, which would only be justified as a stepping stone in achieving a clearer way of thinking, that i already have   

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
25 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Watch a YouTube music video.

The watching of the images and listening of the sounds is not what you need to cease. You arent trying to end your awareness of what is going on. What you are doing is not allowing yourself to have any conscious thoughts in relation to it.

Our minds want to suck us into attaching thoughts to everything and its that we must stop. Its hard at first, but after a couple hours of trying you will be there. Once you have ceased thoughts, and maybe allow one type of thought, you can start experimenting and see the interplay between thoughts and what happens in reality.

Just briefly.

Awareness IS conscious thought (and sometimes subconscious thought)  How can you  have awareness, without conscious thought ?

For me no conscious thought is no awareness.

Ie what other form of awareness can there be?   

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Mr Walker

I am not trying to be difficult or clever with these questions. i would really like some explanations.

Because, so far, it just doesn't fit within the reality of my mind and thoughts 

i really suspect it is a  stage i went through as a young child, helped by my parents' efforts in establishing knowledge and understanding   of my mind, so i could control and manipulate it effectively.  .

For example Ive never felt the need for meditation. Maybe that is because i don't need it 

The purpose of meditation is to stop the mind rushing about in an aimless (or even a purposeful) stream of thoughts. People often say that the aim of meditation is to still the mind. There are a number of methods of meditating -

"Stilling the mind,"  of both visual and verbal thoughts, is the first basic step  in controlling the mind and manipulating it effectively.  I managed that before i began school, although it took longer to make it the default and normal way my mind worked. i practiced mental controls and disciplines from  about the age of 3 or 4   when my mother explained the nature of my stream of consciousness to me,   until was about 18, for an hour or two  most nights. In other words I invested  around 5000 hours of work on developing my cognitive understandings and disciplines.   

This process used both mental  and physical disciplines which my parents taught me to use like slowing  my pulse rate and controlling my breathing  etc.  plus how to recognise and reproduce the neural  patterns which make up our thoughts and emotions. Once you understand that all thoughts and emotions are constructs, you are on your way to being able to reconstruct, deconstruct, and consciously construct, any cognitive state you desire.

Thus happiness truly is nothing more than a state of your mind (neural patterns) but so are ALL thoughts emotions etc. Fear is nothing more than a state of mind.

    The y only exist  because you either allow them to exist, or  you encourage them to exist, or  you consciously construct their existence 

ps this is a less dramatic description of the state of universal or cosmic consciousness

quote 

To my knowledge, the first ever psychological study of what I call "wakefulness"—a higher-functioning expansive state of being—was conducted by Canadian psychiatrist Richard M. Bucke and published as Cosmic Consciousness: A Study in the Evolution of the Human Mind in 1901. Bucke gathered 36 examples of people he believed had attained “cosmic consciousness,” including historical figures, such as the Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Dante, and 18th-century Swedish philosopher Emanuel Swedenborg, and a number of contemporaries, some of whom he knew personally. The main characteristics of cosmic consciousness as identified by Bucke are joyfulness; a revelation of the meaning, purpose, and aliveness of the universe; a sense of immortality; a loss of fear of death; and an absence of the concept of sin. Bucke also highlights the importance of light. Cosmic consciousness may feature an experience of being “immersed in a flame or rose-colored cloud, or perhaps rather a sense that the mind is itself filled with such a cloud or haze.”

 

Whitman lived in a state of heightened awareness. To him, the world was a fantastically real, beautiful, and fascinating place. As Bucke writes of him: “His favourite occupation seemed to be strolling or sauntering about outdoors by himself, looking at the grass, the trees, the flowers, the vistas of light, the varying aspects of the sky, and listening to the birds, the crickets, the tree frogs, and all the hundreds of natural sounds. It was evident that these things gave him a pleasure far beyond what they give to ordinary people.”

With this heightened awareness, Whitman sensed the sacred aliveness of the world and the radiance and harmony of a spirit-force pervading every object and creature. The whole world was divine, including his own being and body. As he writes in “Song of Myself”:

Divine am I inside and out, and I make holy whatever I touch…

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/out-the-darkness/201703/cosmic-consciousness

To me that  is the normal /natural  state of being, for a human being.  

 

 

        

Edited by Mr Walker

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PsiSeeker
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

So I've read.

But i don't believe it  :) 

A silent mind is a dead mind.

Strong anaesthetic might stop consciousness, but even asleep our mind is conscious and thinking (well at least mine is )   You would not even be aware you existed if  you  were not thinking  

Plus tha t is not actually my understanding of the state of Dhyana.

Its actully a balanced state of mind where the mind is able to better concentrate (and concentrating is thinking) 

quote 

In the early texts, it is taught as a state of collected, full-body awareness in which mind becomes very powerful and still but not frozen, and is thus able to observe and gain insight into the changing flow of experience.[2][3] Later Theravada literature, in particular the Visuddhimagga, describes it as an abiding in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention,[4] characterized by non-dual consciousness.[5]

For me this is simply the normal state of mindfulness,  rather than the" monkey mind" often spoken of .

 

This is Dhyana, as opposed to Dharana.  When in Dharana difficulty is bringing attention to the object of one's focus.  I meditate upon the symbol for psi, visualising it as a mental image.  Thoughts interrupt or I lose focus on my object many times etc.  In Dhyana my attention is on the object and nothing else interferes with my attention and directional awareness to the object.  This is my understanding.  In Samadhi everything is in my visual field of focus, including all loose and intransitory thought, there is nothing to interrupt because they're all there, it's not like multi tasking, my awareness has just expanded to include evething.  I.e. one with all

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

This is Dhyana, as opposed to Dharana.  When in Dharana difficulty is bringing attention to the object of one's focus.  I meditate upon the symbol for psi, visualising it as a mental image.  Thoughts interrupt or I lose focus on my object many times etc.  In Dhyana my attention is on the object and nothing else interferes with my attention and directional awareness to the object.  This is my understanding.  In Samadhi everything is in my visual field of focus, including all loose and intransitory thought, there is nothing to interrupt because they're all there, it's not like multi tasking, my awareness has just expanded to include evething.  I.e. one with all

Thank you for this effort to explain.

It obviously makes sense to you, because you can practice it, but it's meaningless to me 

Eg I cant see any visual images in my mind, so i cant focus on one.

For example ,  I can recognise the pi symbol and draw it , and describe it, but i cannot see an image of it in my mind    I cant see letters, numbers, or simple symbols in my mind let alone more complicated  images. 

The last bit i get, but that's been my  default cognitive position since i was about 13 

Iam one with everything and everything is one with me. That includes both spatially and chronologically ie i exist across space and time and connect to /with other consciousnesses  across both, via a connection to the universal consciousness 

I haven't had "loose or transitory" thoughts  in my  life from  about the age of 4 or so.   I cant even really remember what that would have been like,  (although I suspect i would have found them both scary(  because I  didnt control them) and annoying, like the images of snakes i could see as a small child) if I ever had them.

I  consciously create every thought  i have.

None come at random, or  without direction and control/purpose 

I have to accept tha t some people's minds work like that, because they  say the y do (and some people certainly act as if the y had impulsive and unconstructed/uncontrolled thoughts ) but i cant imagine what it would  be like to have random/ uninvited thoughts in my head.   

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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PsiSeeker
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Thank you for this effort to explain.

It obviously makes sense to you, because you can practice it, but it's meaningless to me 

Eg I cant see any visual images in my mind, so i cant focus on one.

For example ,  I can recognise the pi symbol and draw it , and describe it, but i cannot see an image of it in my mind    I cant see letters, numbers, or simple symbols in my mind let alone more complicated  images. 

The last bit i get, but that's been my  default cognitive position since i was about 13 

Iam one with everything and everything is one with me. That includes both spatially and chronologically ie i exist across space and time and connect to /with other consciousnesses  across both, via a connection to the universal consciousness 

I haven't had "loose or transitory" thoughts  in my  life from  about the age of 4 or so.   I cant even really remember what that would have been like,  (although I suspect i would have found them both scary(  because I  didnt control them) and annoying, like the images of snakes i could see as a small child) if I ever had them.

I  consciously create every thought  i have.

None come at random, or  without direction and control/purpose 

I have to accept tha t some people's minds work like that, because they  say the y do (and some people certainly act as if the y had impulsive and unconstructed/uncontrolled thoughts ) but i cant imagine what it would  be like to have random/ uninvited thoughts in my head.   

 

Aphantasia.  I came across the term for what you're experiencing just this week!  When I write green apple I can instantly see a green apple.  That's remarkable dude.  You've been endlessly fascinating to me for many years.  This also explains why our can't understand anything other than in terms of language.  And I argued that not everything in the mind is language but didn't know how to explain for you to see haha.  Remarkable.

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Cookie Monster
11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Just briefly.

Awareness IS conscious thought (and sometimes subconscious thought)  How can you  have awareness, without conscious thought ?

For me no conscious thought is no awareness.

Ie what other form of awareness can there be?   

By awareness I mean eyesight, hearing, and other senses.

By no thoughts I mean stopping all thoughts related to your awareness of your external environment along with any internal dialogue. Then you can experiment by allowing a limited set of those thoughts to see how they alter the way reality unfolds.

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Cookie Monster
9 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

This is Dhyana, as opposed to Dharana.  When in Dharana difficulty is bringing attention to the object of one's focus.  I meditate upon the symbol for psi, visualising it as a mental image.  Thoughts interrupt or I lose focus on my object many times etc.  In Dhyana my attention is on the object and nothing else interferes with my attention and directional awareness to the object.  This is my understanding.  In Samadhi everything is in my visual field of focus, including all loose and intransitory thought, there is nothing to interrupt because they're all there, it's not like multi tasking, my awareness has just expanded to include evething.  I.e. one with all

I can get myself into a state where I have no thoughts relating to anything and all, and struggle to have them.

Then I take the thought I originally planned to experiment with, and deliberately obsess about it and only it. Then I get weird coincidences and experiences where it pops up.

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

Aphantasia.  I came across the term for what you're experiencing just this week!  When I write green apple I can instantly see a green apple.  That's remarkable dude.  You've been endlessly fascinating to me for many years.  This also explains why our can't understand anything other than in terms of language.  And I argued that not everything in the mind is language but didn't know how to explain for you to see haha.  Remarkable.

Yea.

The aphantasia was self induced. As a young child i saw snakes every night after the light was off and i had an imaginary dog which looked real and tried to  bite my feet. I knew the y werent real and couldn't  hurt me, but they realy p***ed me off 

So i trained my mind not to see things and then, because i was so young, i forgot i had  done this, until I was about 14 and it came up at school, when we were   asked to visualise an object and rotate it in our minds. I got into trouble for asking the teacher what he was talking about   Never knew what it was until a few years ago, when I came across it on the internet Ive tried hard to regain the  abilty, but so far cant. Dont know if its a blessing or a curse

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

By awareness I mean eyesight, hearing, and other senses.

By no thoughts I mean stopping all thoughts related to your awareness of your external environment along with any internal dialogue. Then you can experiment by allowing a limited set of those thoughts to see how they alter the way reality unfolds.

Ok Those are our senses which we process with our mind  

Do you mean you can develop a way to see feel etc without processing any of it  Sort of your senses being awke but your mind not being? 

I understand tha t interface and its critical importance, but i dont know how to switch it off. My mind  is interconnected with its own inner workings and its external environment /stimuli Unless i am fully unconscious I cant disconnect the two.  What i am is a mind which is an integrated part of the physical world, including my body but also the entire universe. In a sense, for me, there is no separation between my mind and the world around it  I don't think its possible(for me)  to separate  mind from non mind.

Not even when asleep and dreaming 

If I remove  my awareness of external environment and internal dialogue/monologue, then i cease to exist. There is nothing left of me  

What do YOU  find you have left, if/when  you  remove both those things? 

  For me, reality doesn't "unfold" It is not chance, chaos or random.

  I create it.   I shape and form it, instant by instant. and even predict or plan it in advance 

I construct the inner reality i want, (this can be done instantly and effortlessly once you  learn how to)   and i shape the external reality to be as i wish it to be. (That takes more time and effort)

To me reality CANNOT be imposed on a person.

We always have a chance to shape and create it .

Physical circumstances, like death or pain,  can be forced upon us, but not the reality of how we feel or think about them. 

(Until we lose the abilty to control and use our minds)

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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PsiSeeker
51 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Yea.

The aphantasia was self induced. As a young child i saw snakes every night after the light was off and i had an imaginary dog which looked real and tried to  bite my feet. I knew the y werent real and couldn't  hurt me, but they realy p***ed me off 

So i trained my mind not to see things and then, because i was so young, i forgot i had  done this, until I was about 14 and it came up at school, when we were   asked to visualise an object and rotate it in our minds. I got into trouble for asking the teacher what he was talking about   Never knew what it was until a few years ago, when I came across it on the internet Ive tried hard to regain the  abilty, but so far cant. Dont know if its a blessing or a curse

When I say green apple what do you Experience?  I see both the word but also the green Apple.

 

When reading do you disappear into a make belief cinematographic realm occasionally?

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PsiSeeker

Like a semi synaesthetic experience?

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PsiSeeker

When reading fiction that is, specifically books that requires one to fill some gaps to give the story its appeal.

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PsiSeeker
54 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Yea.

The aphantasia was self induced. As a young child i saw snakes every night after the light was off and i had an imaginary dog which looked real and tried to  bite my feet. I knew the y werent real and couldn't  hurt me, but they realy p***ed me off 

So i trained my mind not to see things and then, because i was so young, i forgot i had  done this, until I was about 14 and it came up at school, when we were   asked to visualise an object and rotate it in our minds. I got into trouble for asking the teacher what he was talking about   Never knew what it was until a few years ago, when I came across it on the internet Ive tried hard to regain the  abilty, but so far cant. Dont know if its a blessing or a curse

I saw **** in the dark when I was a kid too.  I don't believe I would've retained the ability if it wasn't for my teenage years coming across the problem of visualization and realizing I had quite a bit of difficulty doing it.  Now When I say house, or whatever object I can instantly conjure a high resolution thing that I nevertheless can't draw well.  It's irritating.

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