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the13bats

can trump pardon himself?

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OverSword

Department of Justice issued a memorandum opinion on August 5, 1974, stating that a president cannot pardon himself.

 

What crime is he being charged with that he would pardon himself?  I don't think a pardon could stop a civil suit.

Edited by OverSword
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HerNibs

In order for there to be a pardon wouldn’t he have to either be found guilty or admit guilt first?

That can’t happen while he’s president right? So if he is found guilty it would have to be after he’s no longer president and thus not able to pardon anyone, right?

it’s like a freaking Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Nibs

 

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Manwon Lender
29 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

In order for there to be a pardon wouldn’t he have to either be found guilty or admit guilt first?

That can’t happen while he’s president right? So if he is found guilty it would have to be after he’s no longer president and thus not able to pardon anyone, right?

it’s like a freaking Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Nibs

 

Hey Nibs, you are certainly correct, the President can't be pardoned for any crimes that he wasn't acussed of, tried for, convicted of, and then sentenced for. No one can receive a blanket pardon that covers his entire time he was in office ( 2016 - 2021 ) so like you like you said until he is charged and found guilty of crimes no pardon is possible. Once he leaves office, if he is found guilty of crimes committed while he was President, the only person who COULD pardon him is President Biden. However, since he has been continually was disrespect to President Biden, Vice President Harris and especially President Bidens close friend former President Obama there is NO CHANCE HE WILL PARDON PRESIDENT TRUMP!!!

Thanks very much for your post I enjoyed your comments, have a great day Nibs.

@HerNibs  Nibs .i mentioned you because .I was adding the following to my post, enjoy

Oh and by the way Nibs, I like what you added to your profile ( Endless repetition doesn't make something true ) that is a statement I am very familiar with and President Trump used it to convince His followers that his lies were actually true. Trump took this out Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels play book, as it is stated in the meme I added below, 

Enjoy Nibs

CCF4DE00-9509-4834-BBB0-62BCD48A63A9-5287-00000725EB59E7F7.jpg

Edited by Manwon Lender
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HerNibs

I’ve had that on my profile for years. Once upon a time we had a member who would not/could not understand this concept. He spent a great deal of time and avatars trying to convince everyone that there were alien faces in everything.

 

Thank you :)

Nibs

 

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the13bats

While i posted this to be stupid fun the article that i read that lead me to it was serious...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pardons-trump-probably-can-t-pardon-himself-he-may-still-try/ar-BB1bk50G

Got me thinking,

Quote

"A pardon is actually in effect an acknowledgment that wrongdoing or a chargeable crime has happened. So he wouldn't just be looking guilty, he'd be acknowledging that he committed an offense,"

Which we all know trump has countless offenses,

But also his interest in,

Quote

Trump has repeatedly asked aides about pardons for himself and his family members and whether he could issue them preemptively

Hum, almost like trump has big huge walk in closets full of skeletons perhaps his kids do too and hes curious can he just issue a blanket pardon for whatever might float to the surface,

Hes not srupid enough to believe after the way he has acted that biden would be so weak as to pardon him so trump does have to get his ducks in a row.

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Agent0range

You don't have to be charged or tried.  A pardon can be granted from all federal crimes committed whether discovered, or charged before the pardon is granted.  

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the13bats
10 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

You don't have to be charged or tried.  A pardon can be granted from all federal crimes committed whether discovered, or charged before the pardon is granted.  

I took away different from the article, so trump could issue blanket pardons for himself and family to get off scott free with any and all crimes they have under their Gucci belts?

Im sure his worshippers will love that.

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Agent0range
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I took away different from the article, so trump could issue blanket pardons for himself and family to get off scott free with any and all crimes they have under their Gucci belts?

Im sure his worshippers will love that.

Yup, pardons are for crimes committed.  You don't have to be charged.  

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the13bats
2 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Yup, pardons are for crimes committed.  You don't have to be charged.  

So it really is a get out of jail free card, in that case anyone expecting trump his kids or any of his minions to get in even a speck of tempid water you will be sorely disappointed.

Like i have said guys like him never get in trouble they walk between the rain drops. At least his fans have that to soothe the 2020 loss.

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and then
4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Department of Justice issued a memorandum opinion on August 5, 1974, stating that a president cannot pardon himself.

 

What crime is he being charged with that he would pardon himself?  I don't think a pardon could stop a civil suit.

That's nice of a dept. that is overseen by the Chief Executive but it isn't law, let alone a provision of our Constitution.  

This is the extent of the Constitution's guidance on the issue and any powers not specifically reserved to the Federal government:

and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

So... the answer is that it would be without precedent but there is NO CLEAR restriction against it.  Considering what the Democrat thugs did to him for 4 years, I think he should do it just to spit in their faces on his way out.  THAT and to pardon Assange and Snowden and a few thousand other victims of the drug wars who weren't violent offenders.  He also should send armed agents OR Marines into the state department, CIA and FBI and TAKE the documentation related to his struggle against the deep state.  Screw letting them ignore him even one more instant.  With limited redactions specifically made to protect any NOC operatives in foreign countries, he should freakin' BURN THEM DOWN on his way out.  That info would come in quite handily to help him build a 3rd party to show DC who they were mucking around with.  There would be 50 or 60 million of us who'd cheer for weeks over it.  

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Peter B
7 hours ago, HerNibs said:

In order for there to be a pardon wouldn’t he have to either be found guilty or admit guilt first?

That can’t happen while he’s president right? So if he is found guilty it would have to be after he’s no longer president and thus not able to pardon anyone, right?

it’s like a freaking Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Nibs

 

My understanding (and yeah, IANAL) is that he doesn't have to be found guilty or even charged to receive a pardon. President Ford issued a blanket pardon to President Nixon after the latter's resignation and before any charges were laid.

As for whether he can pardon himself, my understanding is that the concept is yet to be tested in court. It therefore depends on whether the President feels like testing his luck in this regard.

A simpler alternative which has been much discussed is Trump resigning before his term ends, and having President Pence issue a pardon.

4 hours ago, the13bats said:

So it really is a get out of jail free card, in that case anyone expecting trump his kids or any of his minions to get in even a speck of tempid water you will be sorely disappointed.

Like i have said guys like him never get in trouble they walk between the rain drops. At least his fans have that to soothe the 2020 loss.

No it's not entirely a get-out-of-jail card. The pardon is only for federal crimes. States could still prosecute him.

Edited by Peter B
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the13bats

Still it seems like a free pass for the potus to commit crime and get off scott free, and i would say this no matter who was chief,

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the13bats
8 minutes ago, susieice said:

For non fed stuff I have to wonder if they would actually lock him up ( club fed )

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susieice
11 minutes ago, the13bats said:

For non fed stuff I have to wonder if they would actually lock him up ( club fed )

New York might. IIRC, he could get a year or so. Most of it is monetary fines.

Edited by susieice
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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Yup, pardons are for crimes committed.  You don't have to be charged.  

Umm.. if you aren't charged - and found guilty -  then there is no crime to pardon ? 

As I (dimly) understand it, a president cannot issue a pardon against the  future possibility of being found guilty ? 

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the13bats
20 minutes ago, susieice said:

New York might. IIRC, he could get a year or so. Most of it is monetary fines.

I just dont see him doing time in a prison, really could you even imagine him behind bars?

I get like 30 to maybe 50 emails a day trump begging and pleading for me to send money to support his legal fights ( against vote fraud) i wonder could he pocket that to pay fines after 1/20/2021?

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susieice
1 minute ago, the13bats said:

I just dont see him doing time in a prison, really could you even imagine him behind bars?

I get like 30 to maybe 50 emails a day trump begging and pleading for me to send money to support his legal fights ( against vote fraud) i wonder could he pocket that to pay fines after 1/20/2021?

Don't send him anything. I don't think he can pocket it for his fines. That could be illegal in itself. I really don't know.

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the13bats
4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. if you aren't charged - and found guilty -  then there is no crime to pardon ? 

As I (dimly) understand it, a president cannot issue a pardon against the  future possibility of being found guilty ? 

Same confusions i have/had, seems trump did want a safety net so to speak a pardon for a crime he or his kids commited but that hasnt been charged ( yet ) i was seeing it as he knows he did xxxx and when it catches up to him he just says go away i have this pardon for that.

The way you say you understand it is of course how it should be but is it?

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, susieice said:

Don't send him anything. I don't think he can pocket it for his fines. That could be illegal in itself. I really don't know.

Well, you know i wasnt sending him any money :P  millionaire wants money from this paysan, too funny, funnier still ive been a reg rep since the 80s

Edited by the13bats
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RAyMO
7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

As I (dimly) understand it, a president cannot issue a pardon against the  future possibility of being found guilty ? 

My understanding, based on comments earlier copied below, is that a pardon can cover the future discovery of past activity. He other words a pardon would cover events that had already taken place even if not discovered but would not cover future events after the date of the pardon. 

58 minutes ago, Peter B said:

President Ford issued a blanket pardon to President Nixon after the latter's resignation and before any charges were laid.

 

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RAyMO
8 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I get like 30 to maybe 50 emails a day trump begging and pleading for me to send money to support his legal fights ( against vote fraud) i wonder could he pocket that to pay fines after 1/20/2021?

Yes, for future political purposes. I think the split is now at 70% for political funds and 30% for current legal shenanigans.  

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the13bats
8 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

My understanding, based on comments earlier copied below, is that a pardon can cover the future discovery of past activity. He other words a pardon would cover events that had already taken place even if not discovered but would not cover future events after the date of the pardon. 

 

So then the only real difference here is ford pardoned Nixon and either trump tries to pardon himself or resigns and pence pardons him, pence doing it somehow seems a hair less cheesedik to me

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RAyMO
4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

So then the only real difference here is ford pardoned Nixon and either trump tries to pardon himself or resigns and pence pardons him, pence doing it somehow seems a hair less cheesedik to me

yes but issues arise - Pence would be offered the presidency - even if temporarily - in return for granting the pardon - is that evidence of accepting a bribe in public office?

Doing so would tie Pence to Trump as his lapdog - could he resurrect a solo career after that?  

Edited by RAyMO
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