Strive to be happy- Desiderata

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Didnt you read the definition of empathy ?   How do you feel empathy with a person when you dont KNOW what or how  they are feeling or thinking? You're just assuming the y think and feel somewhat  like  you do .

So. Where is you  empathy towards my thoughts and feelings ?  

are you trying to be clever!?!?? Do I need to know a person to feel their pain?

what makes me laugh about you, Walker= you do not realize how stupid you sound... you are funny... now go off a spend many minutes working out how to respond to to this 

[Mr Walker]

After all these words you still haven't explained why you find the desiderata offensive or upsetting 

[Dejarma]

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No you cant, unless you are a mind reader. You just think you can. 

Once you KNOW a person's thoughts and feelings, you  can choose to feel empathy with them.

what is it you think i'm talking about here!?!? i'm quite sure <most> will know what i'm referring to===== humans in general, Walker-- wake up

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

After all these words you still haven't explained why you find the desiderata offensive or upsetting 

i don't have to= others will do that for me- but hey, what do i know

[Mr Walker]

Just now, Dejarma said:

are you trying to be clever!?!?? Do I need to know a person to feel their pain?

what makes me laugh about you, Walker= you do not realize how stupid you sound... you are funny... now go off a spend many minutes working out how to respond to to this 

First you have to know the y are  felling any pain, not just assume or imagine that they are. It might seem logical from  your pov that they would be miserable and in "pain" but that i s not necessarily true.

  It is not me being stupid here,

This  is simple fact.

It is because you dont get it( I suspect)  tha t you think the desiderata is offensive   I asked before how many such children have you  spoken to, or even heard an account from ?   

Its more than likely that a child from the slums would find the desiderata to be uplifting, empowering, and giving of hope  

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

i don't have to= others will do that for me- but hey, what do i know

So far, apart from  a fundamentalist christian, you  are the only human being who perceives the desiderata that way, whom I have encountered   in person or via text  

[Dejarma]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It is because you dont get it( I suspect) 

oh right.. do you feel there are folk in here who do get it?

[Mr Walker]

5 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

what is it you think i'm talking about here!?!? i'm quite sure <most> will know what i'm referring to===== humans in general, Walker-- wake up

Ah but there is no such thing as "humans in general" when it comes to our minds.   You cant feel empathy  for humans in general,  because  we all feel and think, and see our world in different ways  

[Dejarma]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

So far, apart from  a fundamentalist christian, you  are the only human being who perceives the desiderata that way, whom I have encountered   in person or via text  

oh am i= prove it

 

[Mr Walker]

Just now, Dejarma said:

oh right.. do you feel there are folk in here who do get it?

I sincerely hope so.  As stated, you are the only human i have met who feels this way about this poem  . 

 

[Dejarma]

Just now, Mr Walker said:

Ah but there is no such thing as "humans in general" when it comes to our minds.   

utter BS, yes there is!!!.. if someone is in pain (mentally or physically) or any animal, i'm not talking individuality- why are you?!?

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

oh am i= prove it

 

Don't need to   go online or speak to people and see if you can find anyone else who argues as you do.   Ive never encountered one except the christian bloke whose piece i read today.

  I fits good enough for Adlai Stevenson , Leonard Nimoy, etc to live by  then its good enough for me  

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I sincerely hope so. 

hope springs eternal 

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Don't need to   go online or speak to people and see if you can find anyone else who argues as you do.   Ive never encountered one except the christian bloke whose piece i read today.

  I fits good enough for Adlai Stevenson , Leonard Nimoy, etc to live by  then its good enough for me  

oh right, ok then= i'm going haggis hunting.. bye

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

utter BS, yes there is!!!.. if someone is in pain (mentally or physically) or any animal, i'm not talking individuality- why are you?!?

because not everyone feels pain or grief or anger etc in the same way or for the same reasons.   not everyone is discontent with their life even if it is physically poor, while some who have everything are still miserable   

Ive been in incredible pain but never felt I was suffering or felt sorry for myself or unhappy due to the pain. indeed it showed i was still alive 

You are still assuming tha t others would feel as you do.

I dont, and neither would many others, although SOME might think and feel similarly  

[Mr Walker]

12 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

oh right, ok then= i'm going haggis hunting.. bye

Isn't it a bit early  in the season to get the really good ones  ?  The high season seems to be around the 25th of January 

Dont forget the whiskey and pepper seeds.  

My great great (and several) more,  grandparents lived just up the street (in The  Grassmarket)   from  Rabbie Burns and frequented the same pub (at least my great great etc  grandfather did ) 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Dejarma]

14 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

because not everyone feels pain or grief or anger etc in the same way or for the same reasons. 

all due respect but you are a complete idiot!?!?= are you really being serious with me here?

How would a sewer child feel any different to you me or anyone else in this forum with a broken arm or fear of being shot in face while out looking for food!?!?

I'll tell you what, tongue in cheek, having a laugh & all that but you're really starting to worry me with regards to looking after children= which you claim you do

[Mr Walker]

13 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

all due respect but you are a complete idiot!?!?= are you really being serious with me here?

How would a sewer child feel any different to you me or anyone else in this forum with a broken arm or fear of being shot in face while out looking for food!?!?

I'll tell you what, tongue in cheek, having a laugh & all that but you're really starting to worry me with regards to looking after children= which you claim you do

Dont worry. I have both academic and personal expertise in this area. There are still some young adults who have no one else in the world to turn to or trust except for me   The y learned to rely on us for love and protection while we cared for them. 

You dont get it. But that is quite common 

Take my brother and I. Despite having the same genes, and upbringing, and some things in common,   we are totally different people  and treating us the same, as if we thought and  reacted  in the same way just wouldn't work. 

He is renown for a bad temper, while l  am known for being  quiet and  calm and never losing mine  .   but  on the positive  side   he is a lot more energetic and active than i am so his garden is more extensive and productive than mine.

Ye t we both love reading and read about the same amount and type of books    Not everyone responds with the same type or level of fear in a dangerous situation,  and indeed some people have almost no fear while others are always afraid.

Have you really not noticed these differences in human beings?   

[Horta]

On 11/28/2020 at 3:21 PM, Mr Walker said:

I sincerely hope so.  As stated, you are the only human i have met who feels this way about this poem  . 

 

Sorry to but in here, make that two humans lol.....

Never really gave that poem much thought until now, always just passed it off as some facile and vacuous new age platitude. Gotta say after pondering it there is something slightly disgusting about it in a rather patronising self satisfied and dishonest way. The idea that someone can claim confidently to know how the universe should unfold lol. Or that being utterly ignorant and powerless regarding being brought into existence in the first place, is itself a "right" to be cherished? A lot of people on this planet probably wish they were given the choice. The strange idea that the immense suffering on this planet (and yes, it is immense) is how it is supposed to be, so strive to be happy about it.

This poem was written by someone with an inability to feel love and compassion. Why "strive to be happy" about misery or suffering, our own or anyone else's? It should move us, make us sad and hopefully more compassionate. This verse could be the "wisdom" of some sociopathic cult leader, or perhaps a motto for Wall St. 

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Horta said:

Sorry to but in here, make that two humans lol.....

Never really gave that poem much thought until now, always just passed it off as some facile and vacuous new age platitude. Gotta say after pondering it there is something slightly disgusting about it in a rather patronising self satisfied and dishonest way. The idea that someone can claim confidently to know how the universe should unfold lol. Or that being utterly ignorant and powerless regarding being brought into existence in the first place, is itself a "right" to be cherished? A lot of people on this planet probably wish they were given the choice. The strange idea that the immense suffering on this planet (and yes, it is immense) is how it is supposed to be, so strive to be happy about it.

This poem was written by someone with an inability to feel love and compassion. Why "strive to be happy" about misery or suffering, our own or anyone else's? It should move us, make us sad and hopefully more compassionate. This verse could be the "wisdom" of some sociopathic cult leader, or perhaps a motto for Wall St. 

Ok that makes two of you, possibly for the same reasons   

I stick to my own understanding of it Ie it is not about  the fact tha t others are better or worse off than us, but about how we perceive ourselves and how we can become empowered, at peace and happy 

Hence while we cannot control the universe we can all  control our response to events. 

Then, no matter our own troubles,  we can go out and help those less fortunate. But unless you  feel strong and empowered ,you cant help yourself let alone others 

Suicide is the biggest killer of many groups of Australians.

ive never even  felt depressed Now there are many reasons for this but one is that took this poem to heart just as i was coming of age  

It was written for a young girl after the horrors  of ww1 (so while adopted by them it was not originally new age or hippy )It  could be applied today to people feeling isolation, separation, and a lack of hope 

Its recognised as one of the great modern American poems so i doubt it is seen as facile  or vacuous  by many people. 

Ps YES every person has a right to be here (it is in the UN declaration of human rights )

Everyone has a choice whether to continue living or not The sad fact tha t so many people in rich countries decide not to, is what the Desiderata is addressing  

The happy fact is that most humans, no matter what their conditions, continue to  choose life.

  While there is life, hope is possible.

In death, nothing is possible.

lol the poem was written by a man with GREAT love and compassion 

Each of us should love ourselves.

 in loving ourself we should strive to be happy (and fit and healthy)  That might mean DOING what makes us happy, but happiness is basically an inner state of mind.

You can be happy anywhere, under any conditions, or you can be miserable anywhere, under any conditions. 

 

https://www.kuipeer.com/2019/10/desiderata-critical-analysis-by-max.html

 

 

Question: What is the message of Desiderata?

Answer: Max Ehrman wrote Desiderata with his daughter at the forefront of his mind but the poem contains advice that can be used to advantage by everyone. Fundamentally, the message is about how to get through life happily, in a contented manner, and with a clear conscience. The poem is about how to conduct oneself in the best possible way in order to achieve these goals, It speaks of remaining calm, being polite, listening to the point of view of others, avoiding quarrels and those people who like to create them, and how to stand by one's principles in an assertive but non-aggressive manner. We should be mindful of not comparing ourselves to other people because if we do so the outcome will either be vanity or dissatisfaction with our own lives. We should make time to enjoy our achievements as opposed to constantly looking ahead to the next goal - in the words of John Lennon ' Life is what happens while you are busy making plans'.

https://owlcation.com/humanities/Analysis-of-Desiderata-a-Prose-Poem-by-Max-Erhmann

 

A prose poem replete with wisdom and positivity, Desiderata encapsulates some timeless truths which we can revisit to better understand and appreciate this life of ours. The beauty of this poem lies in its honesty and its ability to help one acknowledge and rise above certain uncomfortable facts about human existence. The poem admits that suffering is a part of life and life itself can be a less than perfect affair. However, rather than turning cynical about it, the poem calls for a balanced approach to life and encourages one to celebrate goodness whenever one encounters it by  telling us that despite its imperfections, it is still a beautiful world. 

Dealing with the themes of love, compassion, human dignity, honesty, humility and a positive attitude towards life, Desiderata provides some markers for balanced living which has made it into a much anthologized poem.

https://www.litbug.com/2018/12/31/summary-and-analysis-of-desiderata-by-max-ehrmann/

Edited December 2, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Horta]

Quote

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.……Strive to be happy.

 

So centuries of slavery. Exploitation. Ethnic cleansing and displacement. Genocide. Erasing of cultures. Unleashing of weapons that vaporise tens of thousands of innocent people in an instant. Racism and bigotry against minorities. Rampant addiction to substances. Billions living in poverty and squalor. Millions borne into the world with HIV. Oncology wards full of patients of all age. Schizophrenia, depression and mental illnesses afflicting millions and resulting in countless suicides. Anthropogenic climate change already causing havoc on low lying islands (already causing refugees). Extreme weather events already wiping out biota in huge regions including billions of mammals, with species extinctions accelerating amidst our massive loss of biodiversity and that on our present course will lead to parts of the planet being uninhabitable, and very likely food shortages in the mid term due to gradual desertification of the worlds food belts....

 

This is an indication that things are unfolding as they should be unfolding? No doubt about that. So be happy. 

 

Even when this was written it was silly. People who cling to “wisdom” like this because it makes them feel better must never have really pondered it to much depth. To do that and still find it useful would probably require sociopathy, and most people who like this stuff obviously aren't sociopaths. They can be nice, if a little airy fairy.

 

There is a lot that has, and still is, most definitely not unfolding either as it should, or could be unfolding. 

[+Desertrat56]

On 11/27/2020 at 5:10 PM, Dejarma said:

https://www.desiderata.com/desiderata.html

Let's go extreme here:

Jeff Bezos
Bill Gates 
Bernard Arnault
Warren Buffett 
Larry Ellison 
Amancio Ortega= to name a few...

Compared to the sewer kids of Brazil..in a few places in Brazil, sewer children have been OFFICIALLY classed as vermin/ rats= which means you can do what you want with them!!!!!

If they could read & understand these words; I'd wonder how they would feel?

But then again I guess it's all relative- isn't it?

My dad had that as a poster on the wall when I was a kid.  He also had a medalian he wore with the serenity prayer.  

I don't understand the reference to those people you named and it is sad about the children in Brazil.  

Yes, it is all relative, reality is mostly in our head, perceptions and the way we think.

[Dejarma]

8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't understand the reference to those people you named

when you do understand, let me know

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Dejarma said:

when you do understand, let me know

Ah, so you make a nebulous reference and expect me to do research to figure out what you are saying? Based on that I assume you do not consider your posts communication.  I am not that attached to understanding anything you say.