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Abramelin

Ant 'civilization'?

56 posts in this topic

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Swede
20 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Informative. Given the surface area extent and estimates of the number of mounds, it is apparently a long established system, with continually expanding colonies.

It would still be of interest to learn the time-span of the initially presented ant colony.

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Wepwawet

I'm with Kent on this one...

 

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Abramelin

Army ants...

 

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Hanslune

Never forget the movie 'THEM!'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!

Them_01.jpg

 

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Abramelin

And don't forget Phase IV !

The trailer:

 

Edited by Abramelin
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Hanslune
11 hours ago, Abramelin said:

And don't forget Phase IV !

The trailer:

 

Yes, I remember that one too. Them! was one of the better 1950 monster movies made like a movie based on a documentary.

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Abramelin

 

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jethrofloyd
On 11/29/2020 at 11:05 PM, Swede said:

Informative. Given the surface area extent and estimates of the number of mounds, it is apparently a long established system, with continually expanding colonies.

It would still be of interest to learn the time-span of the initially presented ant colony.

.

 

 
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Abramelin

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Abramelin

The key question in this thread is (or should be): could insects (here: ants) become as intelligent as humans?

On the Quora site there was an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.quora.com/Can-insects-reach-human-intelligence-through-evolution

The short answer: no.

But that still leaves the question if colonies  can develop to emulate a human brain.

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President Wearer of Hats
17 hours ago, Abramelin said:

The key question in this thread is (or should be): could insects (here: ants) become as intelligent as humans?

I’ve met some humans where the question would be “could they become as intelligent as ants”.

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Abramelin

A single ant isn't that smart, but a large group of them can sometimes be equal to a mammalian brain.

After what I saw on CNN the past hours, I think the reverse is true for humans.

Imagine the next graph:

The vertical, the Y axis stands for the IQ. The horizontal, the X axis stands for the number of individuals.

If we start with the graph for ants, then the graph starts somewhere near point (1,1), or 1 individual, minute intelligence. Then X increases, and the graph rises as X progresses. Then there comes a point the graph doesn't rise that much, and becomes horizontal: max intelligence reached.

The graph for humans starts somewhere near (1, 100). Then X increases, ... and the graph starts sloping down, until it reaches to Y = 50 for X = 10,000.

I wonder how close these graphs come together with X increasing.

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cladking
Posted (edited)
On 11/29/2020 at 4:21 AM, Wepwawet said:

Yes they do, and I think the analogy is apt, but where I differ is in the way this is often portrayed as many minds linked to form a single entity, as was thought with flocking birds. Unity of purpose and one individual reacting to another to another and so on in a loop will look like a single mind in it's operation. Maybe it's just perspective. We, as I said, don't ascribe a mass mind to us as we know we are all individuals, as Terry Jones pointed out in The Life of Brian, but we see ourselves as top dog and different to all other life on this planet. We cooperate willingly, "they" are just automata following blind instinct, "beasts of the field" and all that. So the researchers, and I'm not disparaging them as this is fascinating stuff and they know more than me, maybe guilty of "pre-programmed arrogance" that has existed for a long time in our societies, or at least Western society which still in the main views us as "special", or "made in the image of god", a bad baseline from which to look at the intelligence of non human life.

There an issue here with semantics and splitting hairs as well, something I can be guilty of, though my purpose is to look at non human intelligence in as detached a way as possible. Then, as I think has already been pointed out, we look down at ants and decide they are not much more than automata, but there will be life out in the universe that will look down on us, and may see nothing more than a "mass mind", to their lofty intellect.

I agree!!!!!!

 

There is no such thing as a mass mind.  There are merely millions of individuals who speak the same language that is tied to the laws of nature (as ants understand them) and think exactly alike. 

People want to believe that human achievement springs from "intelligence" but in fact it springs from complex language that is capable of building  knowledge over the generations. Other equally intelligent species lack this ability to use language.  But our language makes us each different because we each have different models of reality upon which we act.  

Edited by cladking
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Hanslune
1 hour ago, cladking said:

I agree!!!!!!

 

There is no such thing as a mass mind.  There are merely millions of individuals who speak the same language that is tied to the laws of nature (as ants understand them) and think exactly alike. 

People want to believe that human achievement springs from "intelligence" but in fact it springs from complex language that is capable of building  knowledge over the generations. Other equally intelligent species lack this ability to use language.  But our language makes us each different because we each have different models of reality upon which we act.  

So, still going on and on about your 'ancient language' shtick ...so after talking about it for fifteen years have you ever published your research and data that supports this idea or do you still hold to 'I say it exists based on my saying so'?

Please link to the website, paper, book or other coherent source where you explain all this?

 

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Abramelin
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

A single ant isn't that smart, but a large group of them can sometimes be equal to a mammalian brain.

After what I saw on CNN the past hours, I think the reverse is true for humans.

Imagine the next graph:

The vertical, the Y axis stands for the IQ. The horizontal, the X axis stands for the number of individuals.

If we start with the graph for ants, then the graph starts somewhere near point (1,1), or 1 individual, minute intelligence. Then X increases, and the graph rises as X progresses. Then there comes a point the graph doesn't rise that much, and becomes horizontal: max intelligence reached.

The graph for humans starts somewhere near (1, 100). Then X increases, ... and the graph starts sloping down, until it reaches to Y = 50 for X = 10,000.

I wonder how close these graphs come together with X increasing.

Here's what I meant:

 

IQ - mob.jpg

IQ = mob IQ

 

Edited by Abramelin
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Hyperionxvii
On 12/12/2020 at 7:58 AM, Abramelin said:

The key question in this thread is (or should be): could insects (here: ants) become as intelligent as humans?

On the Quora site there was an interesting discussion about that:

https://www.quora.com/Can-insects-reach-human-intelligence-through-evolution

The short answer: no.

But that still leaves the question if colonies  can develop to emulate a human brain.

They're going to need a much bigger brain. And I for one, do not look forward to ants as big as humans. Going to have to buy a lot more Raid, like a Raid assault cannon. 

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Hyperionxvii

Seriously, I see their creations can be impressive, for insects. They can definitely act in an organized way to achieve a common goal. A lot of life forms can. 

But as far as civilization meaning 'advanced civilization', no. Let me know then they're creating art, smelting iron, and real tool making. 

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Abramelin
43 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

They're going to need a much bigger brain. And I for one, do not look forward to ants as big as humans. Going to have to buy a lot more Raid, like a Raid assault cannon. 

They need, individually, a brain just a bit larger. And then, when acting as one large mob, their mob intelligence will emulate something equal to a human brain.

And we will be screwed.

But that's just a fantasy.

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Abramelin
45 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Seriously, I see their creations can be impressive, for insects. They can definitely act in an organized way to achieve a common goal. A lot of life forms can. 

But as far as civilization meaning 'advanced civilization', no. Let me know then they're creating art, smelting iron, and real tool making. 

Did you actually read this thread, with all the links posted?

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Swede
22 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

They need, individually, a brain just a bit larger. And then, when acting as one large mob, their mob intelligence will emulate something equal to a human brain.

And we will be screwed.

But that's just a fantasy.

Leiningen Versus the Ants?

A fast-paced read from my youth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiningen_Versus_the_Ants

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