Study Links Mindfulness to Narcissism.

[Duke Wellington]

8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You mean those spoiled brats who were never taught discipline in any form, and quite often indulged every sense without repercussions. Who end up developing an exaggerated sense of self, those brats.

Whats that got to do with NPD?

A kid develops their identity when quite young, and it can go off track if they have one or both parents who are constantly out to break them down. Because the child essentially doesnt know who they are they have no stable identity to reside in. They turn outwards looking for information about who they are off other people and the experiences they have. That means their emotional state is tied to the information they get off other people and lives experiences. If that information tells them they are perfect then they feel great. Anything less than perfect and it delivers a nasty shock to them that does their heads in. Hence the NPD, needs to be perfect in everyway or the rage, despair, and suicidal tendencies creep up.

High disagreeableness (what you are referring too) is indicative of ASPD. Part of it is caused by parental abuse, part of it is caused by genetics, and part of it is caused by a lack of socialisation where they dont learn to interact with other people correctly. With the genetics when normal people are abused it results in anxiety and stress, with the ASPD genes it results in anger and aggression and self-interest which they get locked into. Normal people cannot become psychopaths or sociopaths, they need the genes for them to begin with.

[XenoFish]

Okay Dr. Phil.

[Bendy Demon]

Ah..is this study brought to us by the same types who claimed that being happy, positive, focused on healthy eating or being creative was a sign of mental illness?

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Bendy Demon said:

Ah..is this study brought to us by the same types who claimed that being happy, positive, focused on healthy eating or being creative was a sign of mental illness?

Dont know but these are some of the published papers by one of the authors 

Selected scientific publications[edit]

• The cognitive representation of persons. A multivariate study of implicit personality theory, impression formation, and person judgments (dissertation University of Leiden), 1990
• Neff, K. D., & Vonk, R. (2009). Self‐compassion versus global self‐esteem: Two different ways of relating to oneself. Journal of personality, 77(1), 23-50.
• Vonk, R., Radstaak, M., De Heus, P., & Jolij, J. (2019). Ironic effects of feedback on contingency of self-worth: Why self-reports of contingency are biased. Self and Identity, 18(2), 183-200.
• Stel, M., Van Baaren, R. B., & Vonk, R. (2008). Effects of mimicking: Acting prosocially by being emotionally moved. European journal of social psychology, 38(6), 965-976.
• Vonk, R. (1996). Negativity and potency effects in impression formation. European Journal of Social Psychology, 26(6), 851-865.
• Vonk, R. (1999). Impression formation and impression management: Motives, traits, and likeability inferred from self-promoting and self-deprecating behavior. Social Cognition, 17(4), 390-412.
• Vonk, R. (2001). Aversive self-presentations. In R.M. Kowalski (Ed.), Behaving badly: Aversive interpersonal behaviors, pp. 79-155. Washington, DC: APA.
• Vonk, R. (2002). Self-serving interpretations of flattery: Why ingratiation works. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 82, 515-525.
• Vonk, R. (2002). Effects of stereotypes on attitude inference: Outgroups are black and white, ingroups are shaded. British Journal of Social Psychology, 41, 157-167.
• Vonk, R. & Ashmore, R.D. (2003). Thinking About Gender Types: Cognitive Organization of Female and Male Types. British Journal of Social Psychology, 41, 157-167.
• Vonk, R. & Smit, H. (2012). Optimal self-esteem is contingent: Intrinsic versus extrinsic, and upward versus downward contingencies. European Journal of Personality Psychology, 26, 182-193.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roos_Vonk

This is the other author 

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anouk_Visser4

 She is much younger and it seems that this might be her first published paper 

 

It seems you are  partially correct in your recollections

In August 2011, a press release was issued by Vonk, Marcel Zeelenberg and Diederik Stapel of Tilburg University about an investigation into the psychological meaning of meat.^[12] In this they concluded that meat eaters are less social and more selfish than non-meat eaters.^[13] A few weeks later, Vonk offered her apologies about the press release,^[14] because professor Stapel had used falsified data. Professor Stapel was put on administrative leave on 7 September^[15] After an internal investigation, the Radboud University concluded that Vonk was not guilty of fraudulent behavior. However, she was reprimanded for publishing premature conclusions related to data she had not verified.^[16]

Edited December 1, 2020 by Mr Walker

[lightly]

On November 29, 2020 at 12:37 PM, XenoFish said:

I don't think it's all about seeing ourselves favorably, I think it sometimes has to do with seeing oneself as "superior" to others for whatever reason. To overinflate the sense of self. Pretty much anything can do that. 

   Sounds a little like Ego ?    Hmm..  In a world where the Eater is Superior to the Eaten !    .. I can see how that might give the Eater sort of  a big head !?   Your statement ^ made me think about it as a Power trip ?  Primitive primal urges ...which we call Masculinity  or male aggression or an inflated Ego.  ?

  Not sure how "mindfulness" fits with the above...but I thought it was fascinating !   

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, lightly said:

   Sounds a little like Ego ?    Hmm..  In a world where the Eater is Superior to the Eaten !    .. I can see how that might give the Eater sort of  a big head !?   Your statement ^ made me think about it as a Power trip ?  Primitive primal urges ...which we call Masculinity  or male aggression or an inflated Ego.  ?

  Not sure how "mindfulness" fits with the above...but I thought it was fascinating !   

All it takes is the idea of becoming spiritual superior. By doing this type of prayer, meditation, mindfulness, I am soo much better than those who don't do what I do. I've seen the same spiritual superiority complex a lot in occult communities. It's all an egotistical power trip and hell of a self-delusion. I got caught in that during my early years of practice. 

[lightly]

 ^.  .  Brilliant X !    Your on a roll lately ...making lots of sense !   

[+Sherapy]

6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

All it takes is the idea of becoming spiritual superior. By doing this type of prayer, meditation, mindfulness, I am soo much better than those who don't do what I do. I've seen the same spiritual superiority complex a lot in occult communities. It's all an egotistical power trip and hell of a self-delusion. I got caught in that during my early years of practice. 

You do seem to be progressing in you mindfulness journey. A healthy ego sets aside the need to micromanage or control everything. 

[ChrLzs]

33 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

A healthy ego sets aside the need to micromanage or control everything. 

Absolutely nailed it, Sherapy... 

Quite appropriately, in some obscure way..(?) I'm listening to Pink Floyd's David Gilmour playing "Comfortably Numb" live - best guitar solo ever, and how chilled can one possibly be when listening to it...

 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

You do seem to be progressing in you mindfulness journey. A healthy ego sets aside the need to micromanage or control everything. 

Up to a point, but a healthy ego seeks and succeeds in   managing the life of its owner  and controlling their environment and response, in an optimal way. That is an evolved survival response  

ie the ONE big advantage humans have, is to be able to see ahead of time the results of different  choices, and to choose the most optimal, constructive, and beneficial ones 

One role of the ego is to act for, and protect,  the "owner. " It does this by managing thoughts, responses and behaviours 

plus of course its good for your health.  quote

A positive ego brings us happiness. Even when things seem to be going against us, when we maintain a positive attitude, we experience calmness, inner peace and contentment. In contrast, a negative ego brings nothing but misery, pain, unhappiness and uneasiness

Say, a person is on route to work and he finds out that all trains have been cancelled.

A person with the positive ego will take things in his stride, not get stressed, will remain calm and wait for the situation to be resolved. Or he will look for answers to overcome his present predicament. Thereby, things for him will eventually get solved. And even if they do not, he will readily accept things just the way they are, after having made every effort to look for a solution.

Whereas a person with a negative ego will immediately begin to moan and complain, and will blame everyone and everything, as soon as he finds out that the trains have been cancelled. His temper will be out of control, he will be extremely stressed, unable to find a way out and will get totally absorbed in the inner turmoil and worries. By the time the train service resumes to normal, he would be already exhausted, both mentally as well as physically.

https://medium.com/dadabhagwan/results-of-positive-ego-and-negative-ego-b43902b94218#:~:text=A positive ego brings us,%2C pain%2C unhappiness and uneasiness.

quote

Although the word ego often carries a negative connotation - as in egocentric or egotistical -- in actuality, the ego has both positive and negative aspects.

From the positive perspective, ego simply means a solid, healthy and strong sense of self. Ego in this regard is essential in business. To be a powerful force in business means the individual has to be solid and self-reliant. Though a big ego is usually considered to be a negative trait, in fact, the bigger the ego, the better.

Big ego doesn't mean you're stuck-up or conceited; rather it means you are able to access within yourself the truth in any given situation. This involves reason, discernment and balance, even in the most tumultuous and challenging times.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/281170

Edited December 2, 2020 by Mr Walker

[XenoFish]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

You do seem to be progressing in you mindfulness journey. A healthy ego sets aside the need to micromanage or control everything. 

Well my own personal happiness and middle ground approach, appears to make others angry. So be it. It's my life and I'm feeling alright. Those in the real world are happy for me.

[openozy]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Well my own personal happiness and middle ground approach, appears to make others angry.

I'm glad you're happy Xeno.

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Well my own personal happiness and middle ground approach, appears to make others angry. So be it. It's my life and I'm feeling alright. Those in the real world are happy for me.

Excellent, you have worked incredibly hard on yourself. Few, accomplish what you have. I am very happy for you too. Great job Xeno. Truly, you are an inspiration. Just my two cents.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Up to a point, but a healthy ego seeks and succeeds in   managing the life of its owner  and controlling their environment and response, in an optimal way. That is an evolved survival response  

ie the ONE big advantage humans have, is to be able to see ahead of time the results of different  choices, and to choose the most optimal, constructive, and beneficial ones 

One role of the ego is to act for, and protect,  the "owner. " It does this by managing thoughts, responses and behaviours 

plus of course its good for your health.  quote

A positive ego brings us happiness. Even when things seem to be going against us, when we maintain a positive attitude, we experience calmness, inner peace and contentment. In contrast, a negative ego brings nothing but misery, pain, unhappiness and uneasiness

Say, a person is on route to work and he finds out that all trains have been cancelled.

A person with the positive ego will take things in his stride, not get stressed, will remain calm and wait for the situation to be resolved. Or he will look for answers to overcome his present predicament. Thereby, things for him will eventually get solved. And even if they do not, he will readily accept things just the way they are, after having made every effort to look for a solution.

Whereas a person with a negative ego will immediately begin to moan and complain, and will blame everyone and everything, as soon as he finds out that the trains have been cancelled. His temper will be out of control, he will be extremely stressed, unable to find a way out and will get totally absorbed in the inner turmoil and worries. By the time the train service resumes to normal, he would be already exhausted, both mentally as well as physically.

https://medium.com/dadabhagwan/results-of-positive-ego-and-negative-ego-b43902b94218#:~:text=A positive ego brings us,%2C pain%2C unhappiness and uneasiness.

quote

Although the word ego often carries a negative connotation - as in egocentric or egotistical -- in actuality, the ego has both positive and negative aspects.

From the positive perspective, ego simply means a solid, healthy and strong sense of self. Ego in this regard is essential in business. To be a powerful force in business means the individual has to be solid and self-reliant. Though a big ego is usually considered to be a negative trait, in fact, the bigger the ego, the better.

Big ego doesn't mean you're stuck-up or conceited; rather it means you are able to access within yourself the truth in any given situation. This involves reason, discernment and balance, even in the most tumultuous and challenging times.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/281170

Walker, for one when did this become about “you” ? You are quote mining out of context trying to act like you know something you truly don’t! Brutal honesty with oneself is the start of this type of journey, I am thinking Xeno might have an add to which I would rather hear as yours is from a lack of insight coupled with no personal experience. It probably isn’t intentional. I have some advice for you take it or leave it (I have no preference), but a person who constantly insists, demands they are always right does not have a healthy ego. 
 

Quite frankly, Xeno and myself on the other hand have done the brutal hard work that it takes to get to where we are today, Xeno did this on his own with incredible determination and has given many of us a gift by sharing his journey. 
 

You need to slow your roll. 
 

And, some will not be happy for us, so be it.

 

With that being said, I truly wish you and your lovely wife warm regards. All the best, truly. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Walker, for one when did this become about “you” ? You are quote mining out of context trying to act like you know something you truly don’t! Brutal honesty with oneself is the start of this type of journey, I am thinking Xeno might have an add to which I would rather hear as yours is from a lack of insight coupled with no personal experience. It probably isn’t intentional. I have some advice for you take it or leave it (I have no preference), but a person who constantly insists, demands they are always right does not have a healthy ego. 

It's nice to see that I am not the only person who sees these traits in Walker.

Quote

Quite frankly, Xeno and myself on the other hand have done the brutal hard work that it takes to get to where we are today, Xeno did this on his own with incredible determination and has given many of us a gift by sharing his journey. 

Something to be proud of for sure.

I am looking forward to overcoming some of my own struggles with mental health. I've started the journey by replacing the anxiety meds with physical exercise, which seems to be working. If I feel overwhelmed with anger or frustration I just take it out on my chin-up bar that I recently bought. One of my friends jokingly said that "If you channel all your anger and anxiety into that pull up bar you're gonna be ripped in a week"

[+Desertrat56]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:11 PM, Guyver said:

I said, “In a sense.”  Another way of saying it is, “in one sense.”  You inferred that hubris claim of me.  I don’t meditate or work out at this time, so I wasn’t speaking of myself......except from experience.  In any event, I never claimed that one type of person is superior to another person in an overarching way, but if you think someone who doesn’t exercise and eats improperly is more fit than a person of the same age and in similar circumstances is who does routinely practice diet and exercise, you’re fooling yourself.

My experience is that mindfulness does not mean spiritual.  I had an experience a long time ago when the first book by Eckharte Tolle came out.  He was training people what he considered mindfulness and a woman in Dallas took his classes then came home and started a group.  I had read the first 4 chapters of the book, that is where I usually decide if I want to finish the book, the fourth chapter.  I heard about the group and went to a meeting.  The woman's idea of "being in the Now" was so weird.  We all sat in a cirlce silently, we were told if you are moved to say something, say it.  So, a guy said something and I responded and she was upset at the topic and accused us of not being in the "Now", not having mindlfulness.  She was the on who was taken out by triggers she had not dealt with in my opinion and was making us wrong, when it was her issue.   Mindfulness is not a spiritual practice, it is a mental practice that may or may not have something to do with spirit.

[XenoFish]

59 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

 

I am looking forward to overcoming some of my own struggles with mental health. I've started the journey by replacing the anxiety meds with physical exercise, which seems to be working. If I feel overwhelmed with anger or frustration I just take it out on my chin-up bar that I recently bought. One of my friends jokingly said that "If you channel all your anger and anxiety into that pull up bar you're gonna be ripped in a week"

If it works for you, go for it.

[XenoFish]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Walker, for one when did this become about “you” ? You are quote mining out of context trying to act like you know something you truly don’t! Brutal honesty with oneself is the start of this type of journey, I am thinking Xeno might have an add to which I would rather hear as yours is from a lack of insight coupled with no personal experience. It probably isn’t intentional. I have some advice for you take it or leave it (I have no preference), but a person who constantly insists, demands they are always right does not have a healthy ego. 
 

Quite frankly, Xeno and myself on the other hand have done the brutal hard work that it takes to get to where we are today, Xeno did this on his own with incredible determination and has given many of us a gift by sharing his journey. 
 

You need to slow your roll. 
 

And, some will not be happy for us, so be it.

 

With that being said, I truly wish you and your lovely wife warm regards. All the best, truly. 

I just got very tired of feeling the way I did. Realized I was trapped in my own personal hell. Decided to take up generalized agnosticism (being agnostic towards all things) and choosing to change my own reality tunnel to something better. If a person wishes to overcome themselves, I hope they can, what I did may not work for them. So I can't say "My path is the right path" that would be stupid on my part. If someone find prayer, meditation, making a daily schedule, whatever it is and it helps them become a better person they should go for it. 

I'm not even sure how this new reality tunnel is affecting my fully. I have a low flame so to speak. Not much of a desire to be "right" about things. I try to treat everything as an opinion. Our lives are made up of our beliefs. Some good and others not so much. We have to deconstruct ourselves and change what we believe out. Scapegoating others for our life problems only stunts our personal growth. 

Do what thou will, harm none. 

[openozy]

4 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I've started the journey by replacing the anxiety meds with physical exercise

Spot on, it may be an old remedy but walking clears my mind in minutes no matter how depressed I am. It's ok to be a little crazy though, everyone is.

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I just got very tired of feeling the way I did. Realized I was trapped in my own personal hell. Decided to take up generalized agnosticism (being agnostic towards all things) and choosing to change my own reality tunnel to something better. If a person wishes to overcome themselves, I hope they can, what I did may not work for them. So I can't say "My path is the right path" that would be stupid on my part. If someone find prayer, meditation, making a daily schedule, whatever it is and it helps them become a better person they should go for it. 

I'm not even sure how this new reality tunnel is affecting my fully. I have a low flame so to speak. Not much of a desire to be "right" about things. I try to treat everything as an opinion. Our lives are made up of our beliefs. Some good and others not so much. We have to deconstruct ourselves and change what we believe out. Scapegoating others for our life problems only stunts our personal growth. 

Do what thou will, harm none. 

Exactly. and you are doing excellent. Well said.
 

Same for me, I went the therapy route, years of it I literally had to rebuild from the ground up I started with Psychoanalysis ( few even practice anymore) but it literally helped me as a child of abuse to build a healthy foundation and I went from there and am living my best life with deep gratitude.  I have worked hard, but my nature is one of a seeker yet, it is not the only way.

 

 I have no judgement for Walker as not everyone wants to do the  work of  some prefer to wallow or stay where they are and that is okay too. I truly mean no disrespect to Walker, .I would say to anyone to use Walkers example as what not to do.

 

Do not  make a habit of being blinded by the chandeliers or buy and sell  blue sky. We all see Walker for who he has chosen to be and if it works for him, great, but it is the fastest way to an unhealthy ego one can find. Just my two cents. 
 

Xeno, I admire your determination and grit. You got this. 
 

Keep sharing. 
 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

6 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

It's nice to see that I am not the only person who sees these traits in Walker.

Something to be proud of for sure.

I am looking forward to overcoming some of my own struggles with mental health. I've started the journey by replacing the anxiety meds with physical exercise, which seems to be working. If I feel overwhelmed with anger or frustration I just take it out on my chin-up bar that I recently bought. One of my friends jokingly said that "If you channel all your anger and anxiety into that pull up bar you're gonna be ripped in a week"

NW, that is an excellent approach, I used hiking steep hills myself, I loved the feeling so much it kept me working hard on recognizing triggers and finding better ways letting go of a lot of trauma’s. Sound’s like you have great friends ( support system) I am so proud of you. 

 

I have no doubt you will reach the mountain top, you are an incredibly wise and compassionate person. 
 

It is so cool to see you and X sharing. I love it. You both are great examples. 
 

Do you dream?

Edited December 3, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

6 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

My experience is that mindfulness does not mean spiritual.  I had an experience a long time ago when the first book by Eckharte Tolle came out.  He was training people what he considered mindfulness and a woman in Dallas took his classes then came home and started a group.  I had read the first 4 chapters of the book, that is where I usually decide if I want to finish the book, the fourth chapter.  I heard about the group and went to a meeting.  The woman's idea of "being in the Now" was so weird.  We all sat in a cirlce silently, we were told if you are moved to say something, say it.  So, a guy said something and I responded and she was upset at the topic and accused us of not being in the "Now", not having mindlfulness.  She was the on who was taken out by triggers she had not dealt with in my opinion and was making us wrong, when it was her issue.   Mindfulness is not a spiritual practice, it is a mental practice that may or may not have something to do with spirit.

Thank you. Mindfulness to me is tuning into ones inner self. Yoga works well too, so do many other things. I enjoyed this post thank you for clarifying the difference. 

A cool aside: My boss actually knows Eckart Tolle,, she is not a groupie either. She is a well respected Neurologist/Psychiatrist.  
 

 He is the real deal. 

[XenoFish]

26 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Xeno, I admire your determination and grit. You got this. 
 

Keep sharing

I think the fire has burned out. I don't feel like arguing with people and my area of focus has shrunk. I've settled into a few different perspectives on various subjects, so I'm basically out of ammo on a lot of things. Maybe the passion is gone or I've gotten passed a lot of nonsense, don't really know.

[+Sherapy]

37 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think the fire has burned out. I don't feel like arguing with people and my area of focus has shrunk. I've settled into a few different perspectives on various subjects, so I'm basically out of ammo on a lot of things. Maybe the passion is gone or I've gotten passed a lot of nonsense, don't really know.

It might be inner peace too.

[+Hammerclaw]

Mindfulness is to not be overawed with first impressions, but to encompass, with thought, the reality we create, express and are possessed by. Mindfulness is to be comforted within the walls of our own personal garden, in all the variegated forms it takes from person to person. It is a garden that must be tended and watered, frequently, for even the most beautiful and resilient blossom may whither and fade from the loneliness of too much sun.