Beliefs... everyone has them

[Sakari]

17 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

If I can turn around your interpretation/question 'why do people bash harmless beliefs?', why are you so concerned that this might be happening here?  I mean your example is backwards in this case, it was the 'Person A who has a belief' who whipped out how others are idiots/stupid.  Why do you pretty consistently call out the non-believers instead of believers on their 'insults'? 

 

If I am person A, you clearly did not read my original reply. I was stating that I wish I had a true belief in something. Not that I do. The Mark Twain quote I used, was directed at a person that felt it funny I had that opinion. And yes, after replying that I am most likely going to die from Cancer, it kind of p***es me off. To use a laugh emoji does take an idiot.
In a way, I used to be that idiot. But, I never went as low as to laugh at someone, if they are in a health situation.

I had been on these forums actively for over 10 years. Had another login with another 10,000 posts. I was that person that argued over religion. And possibly with Xenofish. I learned a lesson in life, and tried to share it. I was bored, nothing more, nothing less. I used that Mark Twain quote quite a bit, and found it fitting. I saw my old dumb ass, immature self in the replies to my post.

As said, like right now. It is 630 Am, and everyone is asleep. I am bored, so replying for the last times here. I thought maybe coming back,m and having some discussions would be nice. Maybe sharing my experience in the spiritual section would be also. NOT.

Let's be clear. None of it hurts my feelings at all. I could care less what anyone thinks of my, or mt posts. It was all just discussion, getting some time by. As I am now waiting for my next tattoo appointment. I live my life for me, and am having a awesome time doing it. Traveled through 13 states in the last 7 months on my bike. Seeing wonderful things.

Anyway. Going to go make breakfast and wake up the wife. Be safe.

[Sakari]

3 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

I wish you all the best and hope you grab hold of the truth that it only takes one brave stretch of faith.

Which it appears, you've already realized.

 

 

Thank You. I may not be going on the path you are on, but I am headed on a good one so far. Appreciate the reply.

Be safe out there.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sakari

[+Nuclear Wessel]

6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Prove me wrong 

Dictionary definitions prove you  are correct about a pond being a body of water, but often do not go further, to explain that  a pond can be a structure or a dry pond without any water in it  

If a pond doesn't have any water, it is not a pond... it's a hole in the ground.

[XenoFish]

We see the world through our subjective reality tunnel. Which leads us often to a narrow view of things. We judge things by our position in our tunnel, filtering everything through what we believe to be true. This of course causes too much unneeded antagonism and ignorance. We cannot see another person's view through their eyes, if we are willing, maybe we can peak through the window and see something new and different.

[jmccr8]

49 minutes ago, Sakari said:

You are not wrong at all. I am sure you read my replies. By the way, hope you are well. Going to make this my last reply, as I see this place is no different than other social media when it comes to participants.

Hi Sakari

I have read much of what you have posted over the years and have always enjoyed your input and I know it gets harsh in here at times and not all of us are here for the same reasons so just wanted you to know that you have a value to both Unexplained Mysteries Forum and some of us personally. Best wishes.

jmccr8

[Sakari]

36 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sakari

I have read much of what you have posted over the years and have always enjoyed your input and I know it gets harsh in here at times and not all of us are here for the same reasons so just wanted you to know that you have a value to both Unexplained Mysteries Forum and some of us personally. Best wishes.

jmccr8

Means a lot. Thank You.

[onlookerofmayhem]

55 minutes ago, Sakari said:

The Mark Twain quote I used, was directed at a person that felt it funny I had that opinion. And yes, after replying that I am most likely going to die from Cancer, it kind of p***es me off. To use a laugh emoji does take an idiot.
In a way, I used to be that idiot. But, I never went as low as to laugh at someone, if they are in a health situation.

This is where you are completely and utterly wrong.

I didn't laugh at your post because you said you had cancer.

I told you which parts of your post I found funny. None of which involved your health. You chose to ignore those and personally insult me.

Almost everyone in my family has died of cancer in one form or another. It's a horrible disease that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I've watched dozens of people rot away and die over the last 30 years from cancer. 

You incorrectly assume that I was laughing at your health situation. 

I laughed in the same way I would have if you asserted Santa Claus was real and anyone who debated otherwise was an idiot.

Your health situation is completely irrelevant to the scrutiny of your beliefs.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

Maybe sharing my experience in the spiritual section would be also.

This is not that section. 

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

Let's be clear. None of it hurts my feelings at all. I could care less what anyone thinks of my, or mt posts.

You obviously do or you would have discussed my response instead of hurling around childish insults.

The same way you have threatened to stop posting numerous times, yet here you are. Why bother with hollow threats?

You seem to have totally ignored my preemptive statement about wishing everyone could be happy and healthy 100% of the time, but acknowledging it was impossible. That included you.

I wish you the best in health and happiness.

[rashore]

7 minutes ago, Sakari said:

Means a lot. Thank You.

Sakari! I missed seeing you come in- good to see you my dear man  

[Raptor Witness]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:30 PM, Sakari said:

Funny. About 4 years ago, I would have been commenting that life is a light switch. I would also say when we die, we die.

Now I know anyone that says things like that are just trying to pump their chest out, and try to sound all brave.

So, to answer your question. I have more respect for people that have a "belief" in a after life, no matter what religion, or Spirituality. I can not imagine the peace it would bring, when faced with death, to "know" that you are going to go to a better place. Or, even just another place. I would give about anything to have that feeling.

Anyone that makes fun of, or even tries to debate people over a belief like I am talking about is a idiot. I used to be that idiot.

When you are given a terminal disease diagnosis, and suddenly realize we are not immortal, life is short, and you wasted most of it. On the internet, arguing about things like this, it hits hard. And, I guarantee you, the thing that hits the hardest, and I call bull**** to anyone saying otherwise, is the wake up call of, "Is this it?". Than comes in the "Oh sh$t. I do not believe in anything". I can not even begin to explain the mind f$%k it gives you.

So, yes, it absolutely is a valid path to truth. At least in this meaning of it. A truth I wish I had.

Although, not ashamed of the path I had been on, and did not realize, and am now doing my best to lean on.

 

Occasionally I will get up the nerve to watch a dreadful scene where someone is in severely Dire Straits.

Most of these incidents don’t make it to the main stream television or Internet, but occasionally they will, especially if it’s a live transmission of a television reporter, for example.

It’s amazing how the prayers just flow out of their mouthes, time and time again, regardless of their current faith practice.

My sincere question, is why wait until the end, to establish or cement that relationship?

This is one of the best posts, I’ve ever seen here.

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

We see the world through our subjective reality tunnel. Which leads us often to a narrow view of things. We judge things by our position in our tunnel, filtering everything through what we believe to be true. This of course causes too much unneeded antagonism and ignorance. We cannot see another person's view through their eyes, if we are willing, maybe we can peak through the window and see something new and different.

In psychology, it is the ego. learn to recognize it. Of course we need our ego to navigate reality, the key is to have a healthy one. A lot plays into this our foundations in childhood ( parenting), trauma’s, support system, life experiences, emotions etc. etc. Just my two cents, nothing more, take what you want or nothing at all. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:51 AM, Desertrat56 said:

But you have to be able to signify that it used to be a pond.  You don't call it a dry depression where water used to be,  Maybe in german they have a word that is that phrase, but english doesn't work that way, so dry pond means the same as "a dry depression where water used to be".  

Interesting.

On 12/2/2020 at 7:34 PM, Mr Walker said:

lol Why should i experience any cognitive dissonance  My wife might if her beliefs were not so strong but she doesn't.

I sorted out my own mind/cognitive processing/self awareness  over half a century ago.

  My life is totally integrated and cohesive, and has been for all of my adult years.

  for example i look a t probable outcomes of my thoughts and actions and pick the ones which will produce the most constructive results  

No she is compassionate.ie  she feels sorry for people who don't believe and thus in her mind may not go to heaven or enjoy the power her faith brings to her.

  It is a bit like being sorry for a blind person Thats not judgemental in a negative way.

It is recognising the disability of the other person and all the beauty the y are missing out on      

 There is no fear involved and no negative judgement.

I think those constructs are common to some however  and you  might be letting your own views shape how you  feel she or i perceives the world. 

ps where on earth did you get the idea that judgement comes from  fear?:

Judgement is a values- based  opinion, where you compare your values and behaviours to those of others (or to community laws and norms)  There is no fear involved,  simply a criteria based  assessment of better outcomes for some attitudes and behaviours than for others  

 

Feeling sorry for people is pity, and it certainly has a place for me, it works well to let go of toxic people, but it isn’t compassion.

Stick close to Manwon, he brings out your best, then get out and live. Experience is a big part of the picture too.
 

Just my two cents, 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sherapy

[Raptor Witness]

The factor which I don’t see discussed here, would be personal mystical experiences.

If you are sober, and you have one of these, it can be just as eye-opening as being close to death.

I’m not talking about a near death experience, I’m talking about wide awake experiences. 

They are called personal, because you might be the only person that understands their significance.

When you see the odds of nature bent, it will scare you, and you’ll know that it’s not your imagination or a delusion.

It is exactly is if you knocked on a door, and the door opened.

One of the interesting questions, I have about these, is that the fear factor they sometimes generate, would almost seem to defeat the purpose. However, fear may be exactly the point.

If fear was the intention, I have zero doubt.

If fear of the _____ is the beginning of wisdom, then perhaps this explains the purpose of these experiences.

If you don’t knock on the door, you might not ever have the experience.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Raptor Witness

[Rlyeh]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:42 PM, XenoFish said:

So if a person believes there is an afterlife. This idea comforts them, maybe gives their life a meaning and purpose, it is just plain wrong for them to have it? To have some form of personal hope. Even if what they belief don't affect you in any capacity it is a bad thing? 

They can believe what ever they like.  Now when they start calling people idiots for not shutting up and accepting their fallacious reasoning..  That's a bit different.

[XenoFish]

51 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

In psychology, it is the ego. learn to recognize it. Of course we need our ego to navigate reality, the key is to have a healthy one. A lot plays into this our foundations in childhood ( parenting), trauma’s, support system, life experiences, emotions etc. etc. Just my two cents, nothing more, take what you want or nothing at all. 

The ego is a strange thing. Too much ego can lead to being narcissistic, self-righteous, or controlling. The kind of person who has to always be right. Too little ego leads to depression, self-doubt, and self hate, including the feeling of powerlessness. It is very difficult to find a true balance point. I figure this is because we fluctuate between too much and too little ego. 

[XenoFish]

18 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

They can believe what ever they like.  Now when they start calling people idiots for not shutting up and accepting their fallacious reasoning..  That's a bit different.

Doesn't this work both way? You can't change another person's belief by trying to hammer into their heads facts, logic, and reason. Then calling them stupid, a moron, or idiotic for not seeing things the way someone wants them too. I guess that can be seen as argumentative on both parties behalf. 

Though having actual discussions are always nice.

[+Desertrat56]

On 12/3/2020 at 4:36 AM, onlookerofmayhem said:

The line stops when they voluntarily choose to discuss that belief with others who may or may not agree with them.

So, it seems like you are saying everyone is allowed the right to believe anything they want until they express it in a discussion?  Did you maybe scramble some words or something or is that what you meant?  

[onlookerofmayhem]

13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, it seems like you are saying everyone is allowed the right to believe anything they want until they express it in a discussion?  Did you maybe scramble some words or something or is that what you meant?  

That's what I meant.

For clarification, anybody can believe whatever they want. Unless it is causing harm to others. 

When they choose to discuss their beliefs here they have to be willing to have opposing viewpoints presented to them.

It makes no sense to me that people come to the Spirituality vs. Skepticism area of the forum and then complain when someone disagrees with them.

It took me a while, but I try to bite my tongue (or my fingers) in the other sections here.

I read most of the other sections and totally disagree with many of the things said, but I refrain from responding. 

I could go into every ghost/UFO/bigfoot thread and complain and chastise people, but it's a waste of time and effort.

I expect that in this section people would understand the concept that their assertions will not go unquestioned.

I hope that this cleared up my position on the matter.

I most definitely am not saying people lose their right to believe what they want. Just that they should be ready willing and able to explain and defend those beliefs. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

That's what I meant.

For clarification, anybody can believe whatever they want. Unless it is causing harm to others. 

When they choose to discuss their beliefs here they have to be willing to have opposing viewpoints presented to them.

It makes no sense to me that people come to the Spirituality vs. Skepticism area of the forum and then complain when someone disagrees with them.

It took me a while, but I try to bite my tongue (or my fingers) in the other sections here.

I read most of the other sections and totally disagree with many of the things said, but I refrain from responding. 

I could go into every ghost/UFO/bigfoot thread and complain and chastise people, but it's a waste of time and effort.

I expect that in this section people would understand the concept that their assertions will not go unquestioned.

I hope that this cleared up my position on the matter.

I most definitely am not saying people lose their right to believe what they want. Just that they should be ready willing and able to explain and defend those beliefs. 

OK.  I agree with what you say now,  but that is not what you said before that prompted my question.  It would have only taken 3 or 4 more words to make it more clear.

 

[onlookerofmayhem]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

OK.  I agree with what you say now,  but that is not what you said before that prompted my question.  It would have only taken 3 or 4 more words to make it more clear.

 

Well, since thoughts don't always get written out or read exactly as intended I appreciate your asking for clarification. 

Unlike Sakari who refuses to acknowledge that I was laughing at his assertions and not the fact that he has cancer. That's despicable and cowardly. Even after I clarified his misinterpretation. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

5 hours ago, Sakari said:

If I am person A, you clearly did not read my original reply. I was stating that I wish I had a true belief in something. Not that I do.

Understood, but I don't think anyone had a problem with that.

5 hours ago, Sakari said:

In a way, I used to be that idiot. But, I never went as low as to laugh at someone, if they are in a health situation.

I don't think that is a fair accusation.  It's already been clarified what specific parts of your post earned the laugh emoji, and none of them had anything to do with your health.

5 hours ago, Sakari said:

I thought maybe coming back,m and having some discussions would be nice. Maybe sharing my experience in the spiritual section would be also. NOT.

But this is not 'the spiritual section':  "The Spirituality vs Skepticism board is primarily aimed at discussing the very nature of spirituality themed topics and as such skeptic vs believer style debates are to be expected, for general discussion on topics pertaining to religion and spirituality please visit the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board."

I am glad you're not upset or anything, I think the vast majority of this kerfluffle, as is often the case, is just a misunderstanding.

5 hours ago, Sakari said:

Be safe.

You also!

[+joc]

6 hours ago, Sakari said:

Let's be clear. None of it hurts my feelings at all. I could care less what anyone thinks of my, or mt posts. It was all just discussion, getting some time by. As I am now waiting for my next tattoo appointment. I live my life for me, and am having a awesome time doing it. Traveled through 13 states in the last 7 months on my bike. Seeing wonderful things.

I remember the old days...I am saddened by the news of your health.  I wish you the best.  So, for what it is worth, I will give you my perspective.  I came to an understanding  sometime ago that when we die...we are dead.  There is nothing more. And I am good with that.  I also came to the realization that right now...this exact moment...is all we have...it is all we have ever had.  And so, I know that I am going  to die today.  I cannot die tomorrow and I cannot die yesterday,  because neither exists.  The date on the calendar is irrelevant.  When you die, when I die...it will be today.  I am saddened by the news of your health because I have always thought of you as a friend...and it hurts to lose friends. But I think your attitude is exactly right on!  As Jimi Hendrix once said:  I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to!  

 (Regardless, please be careful on your bike...you really are invisible you know...never assume anyone is aware of your presence!)

...that was a good breath! 

[+Sherapy]

10 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The ego is a strange thing. Too much ego can lead to being narcissistic, self-righteous, or controlling. The kind of person who has to always be right. Too little ego leads to depression, self-doubt, and self hate, including the feeling of powerlessness. It is very difficult to find a true balance point. I figure this is because we fluctuate between too much and too little ego. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Horta]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:55 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

That's great, I wish you the best.  But I'd keep in mind that not everyone reacts to the wake up call of, 'is this it?', as you apparently did.  We're not you, lots of people are not distressed by the 'I do not believe in anything' part. 

Not wishing to make light of anyone's illness (I genuinely wish the best) and it's great if faith helps, but I don't think everyone needs it either.

I was taken to hospital a while back, about the only time I can ever remember being seriously unwell. A sudden onset thing (septic shock), terrible pain initially which I tried to put up with in the hope it would go away (a male thing lol). Then eventually being rushed to hospital with vital signs deteriorating rapidly, and organs starting to shut down.

I can still remember that feeling of ebbing away, of the people rushing around me becoming silent and seemingly appearing further and further into the distance, and genuinely thinking "this is it" before losing consciousness. I guess the point is, I really thought I would never wake again and I have to say, it didn't bother me one iota. Genuinely. The only sense of sadness I felt was for my wife at that instant. 

I don't believe in an existence beyond this. Nor did I in that moment. There was no one really to feign bravery to. I was pretty sure I was reaching the end and I was fine with it. No thoughts of prayers or spirituality or religion. In fact such things never crossed my mind until much later as I was recovering and looked at this forum again. The way I see it is that I'm in no hurry to reach the end, but none of us are guaranteed another breath. A genuine atheist I guess.

 

 

[+joc]

21 hours ago, Sherapy said:

In psychology, it is the ego. learn to recognize it. Of course we need our ego to navigate reality, the key is to have a healthy one. A lot plays into this our foundations in childhood ( parenting), trauma’s, support system, life experiences, emotions etc. etc. Just my two cents, nothing more, take what you want or nothing at all. 

I would go as far as to say that 98% of our 'ego', 'subjective reality tunnel', whatever one wishes to call it, is learned from birth; And that becomes the foundation of everything else...parenting, et al. It is a generational reincarnation.

Our moral judgements are cemented in from birth...our religious affiliations ditto...and of course our political ideologies.  In fact, 98% of everything we believe as adults has been instilled into our brains from birth by those who raised us.   It is difficult to separate those ideological birth straps from our own belief.  And, I think that only a very small percentage of people on the planet understand that they didn't choose what they believe.. 

Just my thoughts...gotta go clean out the garage now!

[Will Due]

14 minutes ago, joc said:

I would go as far as to say that 98% of our 'ego', 'subjective reality tunnel', whatever one wishes to call it, is learned from birth; And that becomes the foundation of everything else...parenting, et al. It is a generational reincarnation.

Our moral judgements are cemented in from birth...our religious affiliations ditto...and of course our political ideologies.  In fact, 98% of everything we believe as adults has been instilled into our brains from birth by those who raised us.   It is difficult to separate those ideological birth straps from our own belief.  And, I think that only a very small percentage of people on the planet understand that they didn't choose what they believe.. 

Just my thoughts...gotta go clean out the garage now!

 

None of my religious beliefs are those instilled in me by my parents.

None of my political beliefs are those instilled in me by my parents. 

100% of what I believe, are in accordance with only one thing: My choices. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Will Do