Mystery signal coming from Proxima Centauri

[bison]

14 hours ago, Chronus said:

Guys this is a real question, we get these signals every now and again, and I'm sure a lot of people don't think its aliens, what else could it be besides aliens though. Not trying to make a debate i just wonder if there could be anything else causing these.

Ever-cautious scientists are saying that this is probably not E.T., but some kind of radio interference from our own technology. There are terrestrial uses for the  band of frequencies in which this signal was found. It's not a particularly crowded part of the radio spectrum, but every possibility is being checked over and over.  So far an earth-based source of the signal has not been found. Possibilities include:  

Satellites

An Aircraft or Airport transmitter (this is in an aeronautical mobile and aeronautical radio navigation band) 

Someone  nearby, tinkering with a UHF transmitter, either innocently, or as part of an intentional hoax

The malfunctioning of some device at or near the observatory, which can produce radio frequency interference 

Some technical glitch in the equipment of the Parkes Observatory, itself, that created the signal, or the illusion of a signal

Each of these explanations has problems of its own, but one of them might still turn out to be true. 

The more that is learned about the Proxima signal, and the more the possible sources of mundane interference are investigated, and ruled out, the less likely an earth-bound source appears. 

The dish antenna was moved off the bearing of Proxima repeatedly, and the signal was lost each time this was done. This argues against local interference, and for a source at stellar distance. The signal was heard repeatedly for several days, at the position of this star. This seems unlikely for a mobile source. The signal gradually rose in frequency over the course of the observations. This sounds more like a Doppler shift imposed by the motion of a planet, than a  random bit of interference.  

[bison]

12 hours ago, MrBene said:

What do you guys think...if we finally discover that there is intelligent life elsewhere and they finally make contact, would we stop being jerks one to another in terms of war/corruption/environment damage/ etc? 

Something like that is hard to predict, of course. It has been suggested before that the existence of another form of intelligent life in space could help unite us, by tending to emphasize our basic similarities, compared to a not-fully-understood other.

Then, too, if we saw that another civilization had successfully graduated from its warlike, environmentally destructive stage, such as we are currently in, it might make us want to better our behavior because of their admirable example. Something along the lines of: 'If they can do it, so can we!'

[Chronus]

55 minutes ago, bison said:

Ever-cautious scientists are saying that this is probably not E.T., but some kind of radio interference from our own technology. There are terrestrial uses for the  band of frequencies in which this signal was found. It's not a particularly crowded part of the radio spectrum, but every possibility is being checked over and over.  So far an earth-based source of the signal has not been found. Possibilities include:  

Satellites

An Aircraft or Airport transmitter (this is in an aeronautical mobile and aeronautical radio navigation band) 

Someone  nearby, tinkering with a UHF transmitter, either innocently, or as part of an intentional hoax

The malfunctioning of some device at or near the observatory, which can produce radio frequency interference 

Some technical glitch in the equipment of the Parkes Observatory, itself, that created the signal, or the illusion of a signal

Each of these explanations has problems of its own, but one of them might still turn out to be true. 

The more that is learned about the Proxima signal, and the more the possible sources of mundane interference are investigated, and ruled out, the less likely an earth-bound source appears. 

The dish antenna was moved off the bearing of Proxima repeatedly, and the signal was lost each time this was done. This argues against local interference, and for a source at stellar distance. The signal was heard repeatedly for several days, at the position of this star. This seems unlikely for a mobile source. The signal gradually rose in frequency over the course of the observations. This sounds more like a Doppler shift imposed by the motion of a planet, than a  random bit of interference.  

Thanks

 

[bison]

Why should the Proxima signal be just  3 times the frequency of the deuterium radio spectral line, to a quite high level of precision?

Perhaps because of the unique structure of the deuterium atom: 1 proton, I neutron, and 1 electron. 1+1+1=3 

Of course an atom or a radio wave know nothing about the structure of atoms, or anything else. Neither does the fact of three subatomic particles cause a radio wave at triple the frequency of that of a deuterium atom. 

However, it wouldn't be such a bad way for some form of intelligent life to communicate their knowledge of the structure of the deuterium atom. . .

[Yaridanjo]

The Cenos ET aliens inhabit the tidally locked planet, Proxima b, in the Proxima Centauri star system. They have a triangular face somewhat like a preying mantis and are about 8.5 feet tall amphibians. They have been visiting Earth for at least the last 4300 years and one was photographed in Taiwan in December 2012. One was revered as a "god" in the Akkadian culture and depicted our solar system on Sitichen's Akkadian seal. The Jovian planets are shown as circles of various diameters and one extra one was shown that we called Vulcan and astronomers call "planet Nine". From this we can derive Vulcan's mass - 141 +/- 35 Earth masses. It is a Z class brown dwarf star. The astronomers know of Y class brown dwarf stars, and are (pretending) to hold Z class ones in reserve till they find one. Israeli NEWS Live has reported that the 'pioneer' spacecraft found what they were looking for during 1979 and astronomer J. Allen Hynek said the pioneer spacecraft were looking for a brown dwarf star in our solar system in a Science Digest article in 1982

Edited December 24, 2020 by Yaridanjo
font error

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, Yaridanjo said:

The Cenos ET aliens inhabit the tidally locked planet,......

Oh lord, here we gooooo…..

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

12 hours ago, Yaridanjo said:

The Cenos ET aliens inhabit the tidally locked planet, Proxima b, in the Proxima Centauri star system. They have a triangular face somewhat like a preying mantis and are about 8.5 feet tall amphibians. They have been visiting Earth for at least the last 4300 years and one was photographed in Taiwan in December 2012. One was revered as a "god" in the Akkadian culture and depicted our solar system on Sitichen's Akkadian seal. The Jovian planets are shown as circles of various diameters and one extra one was shown that we called Vulcan and astronomers call "planet Nine". From this we can derive Vulcan's mass - 141 +/- 35 Earth masses. It is a Z class brown dwarf star. The astronomers know of Y class brown dwarf stars, and are (pretending) to hold Z class ones in reserve till they find one. Israeli NEWS Live has reported that the 'pioneer' spacecraft found what they were looking for during 1979 and astronomer J. Allen Hynek said the pioneer spacecraft were looking for a brown dwarf star in our solar system in a Science Digest article in 1982

[Nnicolette]

On 12/22/2020 at 10:27 PM, MrBene said:

What do you guys think...if we finally discover that there is intelligent life elsewhere and they finally make contact, would we stop being jerks one to another in terms of war/corruption/environment damage/ etc? 

No. People will still be jerks even if our nearest neighbors are trying to get noticed.

[Nnicolette]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:47 PM, Yaridanjo said:

The Cenos ET aliens inhabit the tidally locked planet, Proxima b, in the Proxima Centauri star system. They have a triangular face somewhat like a preying mantis and are about 8.5 feet tall amphibians. They have been visiting Earth for at least the last 4300 years and one was photographed in Taiwan in December 2012. One was revered as a "god" in the Akkadian culture and depicted our solar system on Sitichen's Akkadian seal. The Jovian planets are shown as circles of various diameters and one extra one was shown that we called Vulcan and astronomers call "planet Nine". From this we can derive Vulcan's mass - 141 +/- 35 Earth masses. It is a Z class brown dwarf star. The astronomers know of Y class brown dwarf stars, and are (pretending) to hold Z class ones in reserve till they find one. Israeli NEWS Live has reported that the 'pioneer' spacecraft found what they were looking for during 1979 and astronomer J. Allen Hynek said the pioneer spacecraft were looking for a brown dwarf star in our solar system in a Science Digest article in 1982

Just out of curiosity... Who told you this?

[stevewinn]

It may not be aliens but its the best candidate yet. clearly radio signals from earth will have reached Proxima Centauri, being only 4.2 ly away, would our signals still be detectable at that distance?  or would they've decayed to the point of being undetectable?

 

[alfa015]

Hello,

 

Merry Christmas to everbody!

I made a video-analysis about the possible origin of BLC1. Basically:

 

• BLC1 has a frequency of 982 MHz, which does not seem to be used by any of the satellites orbiting the Earth.
• In Australia, the frequencies from 960 to 1,164 MHz are reserved for aeronautical mobile and radio navigation.
• The frequencies from 979 to1024 MHz are employed in military systems such as the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System and the Multifunctional Information Distribution System.

I basically conclude that the radio signal could have been produced by a military aircraft, but more information is needed to confirm this.

 

Source explaining everything with more detail: https://youtu.be/IQbILRtEfTU

 

What's your opinion about BLC1? Human interference or alien origin?

Edited December 25, 2020 by alfa015

[zep73]

Alternative source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-hunters-discover-mysterious-signal-from-proxima-centauri/

[bison]

 Yes, our signals could reach Proxima more-or-less intact. Whether or not they could be technically received and interpreted depends on the nature of the receiver set-up used by these hypothetical Proximans. To give a sense of what would be required:  The LOFAR radio astronomy array, spread across Northern Europe, would reportedly be able to detect domestic transmissions in the Very High Frequency (VHF) band, at such a distance.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

20 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Just out of curiosity... Who told you this?

Mary Jo Wanna probably.

Edited December 25, 2020 by President Wearer of Hats

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, bison said:

 Yes, our signals could reach Proxima more-or-less intact. Whether or not they could be technically received and interpreted depends on the nature of the receiver set-up used by these hypothetical Proximans. To give a sense of what would be required:  The LOFAR radio astronomy array, spread across Northern Europe, would reportedly be able to detect domestic transmissions in the Very High Frequency (VHF) band, at such a distance.

Then I’d say we reply with a signal four times the frequency of a molecule with 4 atoms.

[bison]

That raises several interesting points. There are many molecules with just four atoms,  How do we choose one?  How do we know that's the one to which they'll be listening?

Tritium, an isotope of hydrogen has four parts in its atom: two neutrons, one proton, and one electron, but as far as I can discover, it has no spectral lines in the radio range.

The thing I like about deuterium is that it evokes hydrogen, the most common element in the cosmos, by  far. The original SETI 'magic' frequency  was that of neutral hydrogen, at 1420.406 MegaHertz, for that very reason.  

Further, deuterium apparently has only the one radio spectral line, at 327.384 MegaHertz. That's in a rather  noisy part of the radio spectrum, cosmically speaking. Tripling that, so as to be in the quiet part of the spectrum seems to exhibit an admirable logic. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by bison
improved exposition, improved paragraph structure

[stevewinn]

I wonder if we'll transmit a signal at the same frequency and for the same duration as the one we've detected.

[bison]

If the signal proves to actually be from Proxima, there will probably be a proposal to answer it. Using the same radio frequency seems the best way to proceed, at least to begin with.

It would be well to understand the signal, and whatever it contains first, though. It's been claimed that the signal contains no modulation-- that is-- no information, except the fact that it exists. It's still not altogether clear that this is the  case. They were looking for stellar flares when the signal was received. If they used a long integration time, essentially averaging their readings over a relatively long period of time, they may have missed the quicker sort of signal variations that would carry information. 

One essentially anonymous source maintains that the signal would have been analyzed in such a way as to rule out such modulation, but it's not clear if this is a fact, or an assumption. The scientific papers that are being prepared by Dr. Simeon and his team should help clarify this point. 

If we can eventually discern some information in the signal, that could help guide us in forming a response. Its been suggested that basic scientific knowledge, which we would obviously share with another radio-communicating species, would form the beginnings of our communications. Using that as a basis, we could build up a vocabulary of concepts useful in further exchanges.   

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

6 hours ago, bison said:

If the signal proves to actually be from Proxima, there will probably be a proposal to answer it. Using the same radio frequency seems the best way to proceed, at least to begin with.

It would be well to understand the signal, and whatever it contains first, though. It's been claimed that the signal contains no modulation-- that is-- no information, except the fact that it exists. It's still not altogether clear that this is the  case. They were looking for stellar flares when the signal was received. If they used a long integration time, essentially averaging their readings over a relatively long period of time, they may have missed the quicker sort of signal variations that would carry information. 

One essentially anonymous source maintains that the signal would have been analyzed in such a way as to rule out such modulation, but it's not clear if this is a fact, or an assumption. The scientific papers that are being prepared by Dr. Simeon and his team should help clarify this point. 

If we can eventually discern some information in the signal, that could help guide us in forming a response. Its been suggested that basic scientific knowledge, which we would obviously share with another radio-communicating species, would form the beginnings of our communications. Using that as a basis, we could build up a vocabulary of concepts useful in further exchanges.   

Maybe we could send a signal on the frequency of carbon ? I don't know the frequency though.

I would choose carbon because that is the main building block of life as we know it.

[Abramelin]

24 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Maybe we could send a signal on the frequency of carbon ? I don't know the frequency though.

I would choose carbon because that is the main building block of life as we know it.

Yeah, we should send a rocket filled with coal.

And if they don't get the message, they at least could heat up a stove or whatever.

And we will be their gods.

[bison]

Someone just noticed another potential piece of the puzzle about the Proxima Centauri signal. It seems to support the possibility that the signal could really be from intelligent life at that nearby star.

It's simple, really. Proxima Centauri is one of three stars in the Alpha Centauri star system. Two of the stars  are quite close together. Each is similar to our Sun. Proxima is a much smaller star and orbits the other two distantly; so distantly that it takes 550,000 years for it to orbit around them once. 

This arrangement bears a marked resemblance to an atom of the hydrogen isotope we've been talking about -- deuterium. The two large stars represent the one proton and one neutron in the nucleus. Proxima resembles the much less massive electron orbiting them.

Just another 'coincidence' that the apparent source of the  signal, just three times the frequency of the radio spectral line of deuterium, has three stars, and that these three stars are arranged like a deuterium atom?

When coincidences like this begin to pile up, perhaps it's a good thing to sit up and take notice.   

Edited December 27, 2020 by bison
improved punctuation.

[Peter B]

On 12/24/2020 at 9:12 AM, bison said:

Why should the Proxima signal be just  3 times the frequency of the deuterium radio spectral line, to a quite high level of precision?

Perhaps because of the unique structure of the deuterium atom: 1 proton, I neutron, and 1 electron. 1+1+1=3 

Of course an atom or a radio wave know nothing about the structure of atoms, or anything else. Neither does the fact of three subatomic particles cause a radio wave at triple the frequency of that of a deuterium atom. 

However, it wouldn't be such a bad way for some form of intelligent life to communicate their knowledge of the structure of the deuterium atom. . .

The Ramans do everything in threes.

[bison]

When asked to list the possible mundane sources of the Proxima signal, I included, among others, satellites, aircraft, and airports. These are quite improbable sources, though. 982 MegaHertz is in an internationally agreed-upon aeronautical  band. Satellites have no business there. 

We know that the signal was heard during several hours, spread out over several days, and it was always in the same small spot in the sky, as defined by celestial coordinates. Due to the rotating of the Earth, this spot would not be in the same direction, by compass bearings, nor at the same height above the horizon, throughout that span of time.   

The chances of an interfering  aircraft being at the same celestial position in each instance seem remote. We have it that the Proxima signal persisted in this same coordinates for a considerable length of time. Long enough for the dish to alter its aim, lose the signal, re-aim on the original spot , and regain the signal. This does not seem to match the movements of an aircraft.

Nearby airports transmitters would presumably offer interference from a fixed compass bearing and (low) height above the horizon. They would not follow a given point on the celestial sphere, which is where the Parkes radio telescope was pointed.   As a point of interest, I understand that the nearest airport to  the observatory, several kilometers distant, has been queried, and reports that they do not use the frequency 982 MHz. 

[astrobeing]

We don't know much about transitory RF emissions from astronomical objects because they don't happen often and they don't happen very long. For a while people were certain that pulsars were artificial "lighthouses" because no one had yet figured out how a natural object could create pulses of light.

Jumping to the conclusion that it must be artificial might be OK for a cable television show but it's not good science.

[bison]

I think that  the possibility of one of our own aircraft being the source of the Proxima signal is unlikely (see my post 48, this thread). However every possibility should be checked in every conceivable way. 

Accordingly, I set up a scanner radio receiver on and around 982 megaHertz, which is in an aeronautic band, throughout the world.  I have been having a  listen, for the past couple of days. I wanted to get a general sense of how active this frequency, and those around it, can be expected to be.

I realize that the usage of this frequency range in my area may not be quite the same as in rural New South Wales, Australia. Being much nearer two major cities than Parkes, Australia is to either Sydney, or Canberra, it could be argued that I might expect to be within range of more activity than is Parkes. Never-the-less, I've heard no signals whatever. Some articles on the Proxima signal have indicated that this frequency is little-used. My experience would seem to confirm this description.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by bison
improved exposition, improved paragraph structure