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On January 6, Mike Pence Counts EC Votes


ian hacktorp
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On January 6, Mike Pence Counts Electoral Votes.  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Will he accept votes from contested states? Or will he throw them out?

    • Pence accepts contested Electoral College votes.
    • Pence rejects Electoral College votes from 7 contested states.


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30 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Does anyone not realize that if the Vice President picks the election winner that Democracy is dead?  You can go back 4 years, and you won't find anyone on this forum supporting faithless electors.  Or anyone saying it's not over.  It's truly sad that people are championing this.  If this happens, not a single vote matters.  Ever.  Is this what the founding fathers had in mind?  Some of these fake "patriots" need to really think about what they think democracy is.  

Comes down to trust, and from my seat today I trust no politician nor scientist they all seem linked back to donations regardless what us the voting paying givers say or do.

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7 minutes ago, President-Elect Acidhead said:

 

The election isn't over yet. The Senate elections in Georgia are on the 5th. All eyes are on Georgia!  

:D

Think Mitch cost the Republicans Georgia this time...we'll see

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1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Does anyone not realize that if the Vice President picks the election winner that Democracy is dead? 

The United States has never been a democracy.  It was purposely designed to not be a democracy.  That's because the framers of the Constitution knew that a true democracy quickly becomes an ungovernable free-for-all that ends up trampling over individual rights in the name of "the people"...much like what the left is trying to instigate today.  And, like today, they knew such efforts to erode individual liberties usually don't arise from "the people", but rather from outside, moneyed interests.

That's why the US is a constitutional republic...a nation of laws.

And the left is going to hate it, but the role of the President of the Senate in choosing which electoral votes are legal and counted is one hundred percent defined and mandated by the Constitution.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

The United States has never been a democracy.  It was purposely designed to not be a democracy.  That's because the framers of the Constitution knew that a true democracy quickly becomes an ungovernable free-for-all that ends up trampling over individual rights in the name of "the people"...much like what the left is trying to instigate today.  And, like today, they knew such efforts to erode individual liberties usually don't arise from "the people", but rather from outside, moneyed interests.

That's why the US is a constitutional republic...a nation of laws.

And the left is going to hate it, but the role of the President of the Senate in choosing which electoral votes are legal and counted is one hundred percent defined and mandated by the Constitution.

This bit, isn't it? Receive a bunch of letters, and open them. Seems straightforward enough...

Quote

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify,

and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted...

Edited by Peter B
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9 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Q. Where did you hear that?

A. PIDOOMA.

Another of your "up date" posts.

Are you American? If so its on the news in your country.

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40 minutes ago, Peter B said:

Seems straightforward enough...

Seems so...and often is.

There is, though, the existence and precedence of something called "defective certificates".  These arise due to, likely illegal, irregularities with voting laws in the electors' home state.  The idea being that the President of the Senate may not count electoral ballots illegally certified by a corrupt governor.

And lord knows THAT happened in 2020...in numerous places.

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59 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

The United States has never been a democracy.  It was purposely designed to not be a democracy.  That's because the framers of the Constitution knew that a true democracy quickly becomes an ungovernable free-for-all that ends up trampling over individual rights in the name of "the people"...much like what the left is trying to instigate today.  And, like today, they knew such efforts to erode individual liberties usually don't arise from "the people", but rather from outside, moneyed interests.

That's why the US is a constitutional republic...a nation of laws.

And the left is going to hate it, but the role of the President of the Senate in choosing which electoral votes are legal and counted is one hundred percent defined and mandated by the Constitution.

There are no Democracies on the planet.

Those that claim they are have representative forms of Government instead. They elect representatives, have a legislature to provide checks and measures, have technocratic input into policy decisions, and while there is a division between state and religion there is normally some religious input too from the various religions in the country.

Only one Democracy has ever exited and that was in ancient Athens. They were a mess, they couldn`t even fight off the Spartans who were much fewer in number and had Republic. One where one Monarch was elected, the other a inherited position, and the Spartans were all the representatives. In Athens the whole population used to cram into the stadium, each citizen got to be leader for one day, and all the citizens would vote on the daily matters at hand.

Democracy doesn`t work because people are prone to mass hysteria, group think, and mob rule. In Athens if the majority of people didn`t like a citizen they could vote to execute or exile them regardless of whether they had done anything wrong or not. Thats why legislatures exist, to ensure the rule of law.

Athens was small in population compared too modern nations so people cannot all cram into a stadium anymore. Hence the reason why Republics turned out to be better with their elected representatives. The average man and woman is uneducated meaning their lack knowledge to base their opinions on. Thats why technocratic input is included in modern representative forms of Government.

Then there are the moral issues where Governments consult with religions and philosophers.

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6 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

Seems so...and often is.

There is, though, the existence and precedence of something called "defective certificates".  These arise due to, likely illegal, irregularities with voting laws in the electors' home state.  The idea being that the President of the Senate may not count electoral ballots illegally certified by a corrupt governor.

And lord knows THAT happened in 2020...in numerous places.

The Republicans are saying that there will be 7 duelling states on 6th Jan. Mike Pence has already announced he will reject the slates from the electoral college over it, that he will be going on holiday on the 7th Jan after it, and retiring from politics. 

That sounds like a move to avoid being painted as an usurper by doing the right thing and showing it isn`t a power grab.

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2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Does anyone not realize that if the Vice President picks the election winner that Democracy is dead?  You can go back 4 years, and you won't find anyone on this forum supporting faithless electors.  Or anyone saying it's not over.  It's truly sad that people are championing this.  If this happens, not a single vote matters.  Ever.  Is this what the founding fathers had in mind?  Some of these fake "patriots" need to really think about what they think democracy is.  

 

If there had been the amount of evidence about election fraud back in 2016, as there is now ..... then maybe the VP ( Biden) would have given this route a go..... the VP now isn't picking a winner so much as protecting the legitimate winner (ie Trump)...

For 4 years solid... 24/7 the MSM working with Trump detractors have tried to bring Trump down.... why would now be any different - a leopard doesn't change it's spots, as they say...

The whole Russia Collusion Hoax didn't have enough going for it or they would have used it - and as it was an invention anyway... there would not have been anything like what there is now about election fraud in key areas - enough to affect the outcome.....

If you are a patriot then surely you don't want your elections to be rigged...?


This situation re collusion and fraud is nothing like what went on in 2016... I remember there was some pressure put on official electors but they just didn't have evidence to go against the vote then.... now they do... 

for example...

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/dni-releases-cia-documents-on-hillary-clintons-plan-to-tie-trump-campaign-to-russia-to-distract-from-email-scandal/

Former CIA Director John Brennan briefed former President Obama on Hillary Clinton’s “plan” to tie the Trump campaign to Russia as a means of distracting the public from her private email server scandal before the 2016 election, according to newly declassified documents.

Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Tuesday declassified Brennan’s handwritten notes along with a CIA memo showing that officials referred the alleged scheme to the FBI for potential investigation.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

Seems so...and often is.

There is, though, the existence and precedence of something called "defective certificates".  These arise due to, likely illegal, irregularities with voting laws in the electors' home state.  The idea being that the President of the Senate may not count electoral ballots illegally certified by a corrupt governor.

Where are the words "defective certificate" in the Constitution or the Twelfth Amendment? You yourself said "... the role of the President of the Senate in choosing which electoral votes are legal and counted is one hundred percent defined and mandated by the Constitution..." You seem to be going beyond what the Constitution and Twelfth Amendment say.

5 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

And lord knows THAT happened in 2020...in numerous places.

Proven in which court case(s)?

Put simply, if it happened why didn't any of the court cases since the election confirm it happened?

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3 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Republicans are saying that there will be 7 duelling states on 6th Jan. Mike Pence has already announced he will reject the slates from the electoral college over it, that he will be going on holiday on the 7th Jan after it, and retiring from politics. 

That sounds like a move to avoid being painted as an usurper by doing the right thing and showing it isn`t a power grab.

 

If Mike Pence actually does do the right thing and serves his country by helping to to block the election rigging he will be a marked man and all the brainwashed crazies will be after him for ever more... that's not a nice prospect for anyone...

not only will he have to go on holiday and disappear from politics he will need heavy protection and security ...

I think a lot of those colluding against Trump are afraid...  for their jobs, their families or for their actual lives ..... they would rather turn a blind eye to the obvious election rigging than put their heads above the parapet and put everything at risk... such is the state of politics ...  

 

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5 minutes ago, Peter B said:

Proven in which court case(s)?

Put simply, if it happened why didn't any of the court cases since the election confirm it happened?

The court cases haven't been heard yet.

The President of the Senate can't legally open ballots he considers illegal.  His oath to uphold the Constitution prevents it.

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5 hours ago, ian hacktorp said:

Mike Pence certainly made the decision everyone, including the lawsuit's sponsors, had expected him to make.

This was the sort of suit that is filed in order to assert and preserve certain legal rights to be used at a later date.

In this case, that later date might be when, say, someone other than Mike Pence is suddenly responsible for counting the electoral votes.

Keep in mind that in the highly likely event that the Dems and never-Trumpers are unhappy with the counting results, it will be up to THEM to prove in a (no doubt lengthy) court proceeding that they somehow didn't cheat their asses off.  Nobody is going to just hand them the keys.

 

I saw what your post said earlier in the thread about Pence being accused by Lin Wood of treachery ... ...

Re the bolded above.... at the eleventh hour, if necessary, could Trump fire Pence and install another VP.. (like Flynn)  ....

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

3 days until the next US civil war starts lol.

Nah...

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1 hour ago, bee said:

 

If Mike Pence actually does do the right thing and serves his country by helping to to block the election rigging he will be a marked man and all the brainwashed crazies will be after him for ever more... that's not a nice prospect for anyone...

not only will he have to go on holiday and disappear from politics he will need heavy protection and security ...

I think a lot of those colluding against Trump are afraid...  for their jobs, their families or for their actual lives ..... they would rather turn a blind eye to the obvious election rigging than put their heads above the parapet and put everything at risk... such is the state of politics ...  

 

Perhaps there's another way to look at things.

Let's assume Pence is an ambitious man, and would like his own chance at running for President.

To have the best chance of winning an election he has to gain a decent number of swinging and undecided voters in addition to rusted-on Republicans. His best chance of achieving that is not by participating in a hare-brained scheme of dubious legality, as that would alienate those undecided voters (in any case all he gets with that result is another four years as VP). Instead his best chance of winning the Presidency is by playing the statesman and calling this election result as it is, and then spending the next four years gaining useful experience in some other field.

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2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Are you American? If so its on the news in your country.

Politifact, for one, says no such thing has happened.

And it's not "dueling states".  A state sends dueling electors.

So, as usual, we're asking which, unreliable, source is misguiding you.

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Members of the far-right group the Proud Boys will attend Washington, D.C., rallies for President Trump on Jan. 6 "incognito," with leaders of the group saying they will dress in "all BLACK" to mimic the attire of anti-fascist groups and counterprotesters.

The Hill

How we supposed to know who the good guys are if everyone is dresssed in black?

Who are the good guys?  Are there any good guys?

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2 hours ago, bee said:

I saw what your post said earlier in the thread about Pence being accused by Lin Wood of treachery ... ...

Re the bolded above.... at the eleventh hour, if necessary, could Trump fire Pence and install another VP.. (like Flynn)  ....

heh he does that and you will hear international trade and security agreements get torn up.. because the world will class him as a dictator and the election invalid.. 

I can almost hear Putin and Xi chanting 'do it' behind closed doors.. because that would open both those countries to do what they want.. 

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9 hours ago, bee said:

 

If there had been the amount of evidence about election fraud back in 2016, as there is now ..... then maybe the VP ( Biden) would have given this route a go..... the VP now isn't picking a winner so much as protecting the legitimate winner (ie Trump)...

For 4 years solid... 24/7 the MSM working with Trump detractors have tried to bring Trump down.... why would now be any different - a leopard doesn't change it's spots, as they say...

The whole Russia Collusion Hoax didn't have enough going for it or they would have used it - and as it was an invention anyway... there would not have been anything like what there is now about election fraud in key areas - enough to affect the outcome.....

If you are a patriot then surely you don't want your elections to be rigged...?


This situation re collusion and fraud is nothing like what went on in 2016... I remember there was some pressure put on official electors but they just didn't have evidence to go against the vote then.... now they do... 

for example...

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/dni-releases-cia-documents-on-hillary-clintons-plan-to-tie-trump-campaign-to-russia-to-distract-from-email-scandal/

 

 

What election fraud?

 

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6 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Members of the far-right group the Proud Boys will attend Washington, D.C., rallies for President Trump on Jan. 6 "incognito," with leaders of the group saying they will dress in "all BLACK" to mimic the attire of anti-fascist groups and counterprotesters.

The Hill

How we supposed to know who the good guys are if everyone is dresssed in black?

Who are the good guys?  Are there any good guys?

I think that is the point. When the violence starts they will all blend in and be harder to find. I suppose antifa will be wearing mask however and the proud boys might or might not.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, bee said:

at the eleventh hour, if necessary, could Trump fire Pence and install another VP.. (like Flynn)  ....

I believe Trump could also fire Pence and not immediately install another VP...in which case the duties of President of the Senate fall to (I think) the Secretary of State.

So Mike Pompeo would be the arbiter of legal electoral ballots.

Edited by ian hacktorp
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13 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

I believe Trump could also fire Pence and not immediately install another VP...in which case the duties of President of the Senate fall to (I think) the Secretary of State.

So Mike Pompeo would be the arbiter of legal electoral ballots.

Not from what I've read.

My understanding is that in the absence of the VP, the Senate chooses a President Pro Tempore from among their own number, and the current PPT is Chuck Grassley.

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17 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

Good one.

Same old question: in what court case has election fraud been proved?

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