We Live In Hell

[Will Due]

2 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

That's awesome! What kind of programmer are you? I write data analytics software using Python.

 

I'm not a professional programmer by any stretch. But I have two brothers who are.

I use Autocad (Computer Aided Design Software) to do my work and due to the influence of my brothers, I became interested in writing code (Autolisp) so the "out of the box" version of Acad could do things that normally took several keyboard entries or tool bar clicks to initiate and reduced the whole procedure down to just a single input. 

 

Quote

That being said, it is interesting you brought up the example of the output of the computer. I never really thought about it like that.

 

As I said, I'm not a professional programmer. My code is ugly. When I pull something up I did years ago, I get embarrassed to see how crude it is. The code is anything but perfect. If you were to have written it, I'm sure your version would have looked a lot prettier. 

So in that sense, although the way each of us would have sought perfection when writing imperfect code, the computer, when used for the purpose the code was written for, and depending on what's inputed, always outputs perfectly the same exact thing.

And again there's a little bit of heaven on earth. Mine in my way and yours in yours.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Will Do

[SHaYap]

Mind fields filled with deceitful words of superlative needs... 

~

[jmccr8]

Given things in general if this is hell I'm okay with that.

jmccr8

[Will Due]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

What are you seeking?

 

A place to live that isn't surrounded by hell? 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

I'm not a professional programmer by any stretch. But I have two brothers who are.

I use Autocad (Computer Aided Design Software) to do my work and due to the influence of my brothers, I became interested in writing code (Autolisp) so the "out of the box" version of Acad could do things that normally took several keyboard entries or tool bar clicks to initiate and reduced the whole procedure down to just a single input. 

 

 

As I said, I'm not a professional programmer. My code is ugly. When I pull something up I did years ago, I get embarrassed to see how crude it is. The code is anything but perfect. If you were to have written it, I'm sure your version would have looked a lot prettier. 

So in that sense, although the way each of us would have sought perfection when writing imperfect code, the computer, when used for the purpose the code was written for, and depending on what's inputed, always outputs perfectly the same exact thing.

And again there's a little bit of heaven on earth. Mine in my way and yours in yours.

 

 

Oh boy, “I am not a programmer but my brother is “ why does this sound familiar. 
 

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

A place to live that isn't surrounded by hell? 

 

 

Where are you looking to move to?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

4 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

I'm not a professional programmer by any stretch. But I have two brothers who are.

I use Autocad (Computer Aided Design Software) to do my work and due to the influence of my brothers, I became interested in writing code (Autolisp) so the "out of the box" version of Acad could do things that normally took several keyboard entries or tool bar clicks to initiate and reduced the whole procedure down to just a single input. 

 

 

As I said, I'm not a professional programmer. My code is ugly. When I pull something up I did years ago, I get embarrassed to see how crude it is. The code is anything but perfect. If you were to have written it, I'm sure your version would have looked a lot prettier. 

So in that sense, although the way each of us would have sought perfection when writing imperfect code, the computer, when used for the purpose the code was written for, and depending on what's inputed, always outputs perfectly the same exact thing.

And again there's a little bit of heaven on earth. Mine in my way and yours in yours.

 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Given things in general if this is hell I'm okay with that.

jmccr8

I am with you, there are far worse things than  hell. 

Boo 

 

 

[Will Due]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Where are you looking to move to?

 

Some place where I'll never ever hear a Belinda Carlisle song again.

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Will Do said:

 

Some place where I'll never ever hear a Belinda Carlisle song again.

 

 

LOL

[+Hammerclaw]

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

16 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

That's awesome! What kind of programmer are you? I write data analytics software using Python.

That being said, it is interesting you brought up the example of the output of the computer. I never really thought about it like that.

EDIT: Upon some further reflection I can certainly concede that some things are perfect.

A perfect circle is possible. A perfect output, I suppose, is possible; in the case that you mentioned, having the computer perform a task exactly how you instructed it to and displaying the correct output could be seen as perfect, certainly.

That's great that you're working with Python, from what I've seen there's going to plenty of work in that language and architecture for a while.  I've worked in IT for quite a while now but with an older C-based language, and am doing more analysis and management (and daily IT firefighting) nowadays as opposed to coding.  When things are slower I do usually try to keep a couple smaller coding projects for myself.  In a relative sense it can be frustrating to coordinate issues with other team members and drive them towards a resolution and try to explain more complicated subjects or logic to people who are more on the business side; after hours of meetings/conference calls that accomplish or settle so very little, sometimes it's nice to just have to deal with a machine and be able to develop and test something and just have it done and something finalized.

Interesting point about 'perfect output', I can see what you mean, the output is either correct or not.  But as I think you noted the program itself may not be 'perfect'.  It may run too slowly or be inefficient in its resource usage despite it working correctly and producing this 'perfect output'. Even a program coded as efficiently as possible may not be 'perfect' if either the extra development required to reach that efficiency was excessive or the program logic is not as easily understandable to other programmers who may have to support it.  Just like with so many things 'perfect' almost always requires a specification of 'at what', and again like so many things, the pursuit of perfection in one area can be to the detriment of others.  There's a lot to be said for the 'good enough' standard sometimes - in IT and in personal outlook.

[+Sherapy]

15 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That's great that you're working with Python, from what I've seen there's going to plenty of work in that language and architecture for a while.  I've worked in IT for quite a while now but with an older C-based language, and am doing more analysis and management (and daily IT firefighting) nowadays as opposed to coding.  When things are slower I do usually try to keep a couple smaller coding projects for myself.  In a relative sense it can be frustrating to coordinate issues with other team members and drive them towards a resolution and try to explain more complicated subjects or logic to people who are more on the business side; after hours of meetings/conference calls that accomplish or settle so very little, sometimes it's nice to just have to deal with a machine and be able to develop and test something and just have it done and something finalized.

Interesting point about 'perfect output', I can see what you mean, the output is either correct or not.  But as I think you noted the program itself may not be 'perfect'.  It may run too slowly or be inefficient in its resource usage despite it working correctly and producing this 'perfect output'. Even a program coded as efficiently as possible may not be 'perfect' if either the extra development required to reach that efficiency was excessive or the program logic is not as easily understandable to other programmers who may have to support it.  Just like with so many things 'perfect' almost always requires a specification of 'at what', and again like so many things, the pursuit of perfection in one area can be to the detriment of others.  There's a lot to be said for the 'good enough' standard sometimes - in IT and in personal outlook.

Excellent posts between you and NW. It is interesting. Thanks for sharing. 

[Sakari]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:10 PM, Guyver said:

So, why would anyone make such a crazy thread?  We live in hell.  Right? It’s like daytime television.  But wait, just take a look at reality.  This is a place of suffering.  It appears we evolved from our ancestors, and are where we are now. Yet, there’s some freaky things that happen in this universe that defy that mentality.  First fact for my hypothesis.

1.  Life is suffering.

2.  Everyone dies.

That is my first fact statement.

First off, I do not think their is a Hell. Maybe Hel, but not a Hell.

I feel a bit bad for you. Just a bit, because this is all in your control. Life is a awesome experience. If you live it the way you should. Live each day knowing that tomorrow is not a given. Go see things. Go out in Nature. Go find places you have not been too. Make each day count.

I wish I had the value of life my entire life, like I have had it the last almost 3 years. Since June , I have ridden through 13 States, and seen so many beautiful places I am having a hard time stopping. Kind of need too for work, and to do more overtime to go on more trips.

If you think you are in "Hell", than I highly recommend you stop taking life for granted. Stop blaming everything else, and anyone else for your issues that make you think that, and go out and actually live it.

 

[Sakari]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:04 PM, Guyver said:

Anyway, we live in Hell support point number three.

Every morning you get up and you have your coffee and biscuits, or your tea and toast, or whatever it is you have, and you read the news.  You then realize that almost all of that news is bad news.....all the time...which makes you realize that reading the news is really depressing.  That hell-ish.

If I am working. (I work to save for vacations and trips, and weekend trips) I get up, brush my teeth, make coffee, put on clothes, use the restroom, drive 48 miles to a job I love doing. I realized a very long time ago that if you fill yourself with negativity, you will be negative. I do not read the News, or watch TV. Not my circus, not my Monkees. I get to work, and have fun at my job, and help others, and laugh and smile with others. Because I choose to only have positive people around me.

Weekends, I get up and watch the sunrise. I might grab a couple telescopic fishing poles, jump on my motorcycle and go to Alpine and fish. I might grab a hammock and a book, and ride up Mount Graham to my favorite spot, and listen to nature, and read a good book. Maybe meditate a bit. I might just ride. No destination, just ride. Might even stay home and spend time with my wife and Dogs. No matter what I am doing, they are things I am choosing to do. All positive things.

Than, on the vacations. Total bliss. Motorcycling bucket list rides. Seeing National Parks, wildlife, and awesome camp grounds. Seeing old towns, new people, new foods, experiencing new to me things in life. If it rains, I put on rain gear.

Again, these are all choices I have made a while back. I choose to live each day as if it could be my last. I choose, to see and experience this beautiful world. And I do it with a smile on my face, and my wife smiling right with me. And, even with this covid, I have still been doing it. Nothing is going to stop me, other than death. And, I know that is just part of life. I do not want to die, but I am starting to accept it. That old man you saw gets it. He stopped taking life for granted, and somehow, he also see's the beauty in it. He knows it is a gift.

So, when you say "we", you must have a mouse in your pocket.
 

On 12/28/2020 at 11:14 PM, Guyver said:

Support point number four - We Live In Hell.

Bad things happen to you and your loved ones all the time and you have no ability to control it.  That is also hellish.

I have no idea what the worse thing to happen to you is. Feb of 2018,  am going to throw a few things at you. And, not all of them, and not in great detail. I had a tumor removed from my lower intestine. Almost bled out internally, and should have been dead. Should also be dead from what the tumor was. Stage 4 Melanoma. Same day, wife has anxiety attack, breaks her arm. 4 days later we get News her Mom has brain and lung cancer. We live 1500 miles away from our nearest relative. I get out and start treatments. Needles in my arms every 2 weeks for 2 years. PET scans every 3 months.  I start planning "bucket list" rides that I have had not done for 30 years. Schedule my first one to South Dakota. 1 week before we are to leave, wife falls and hits her head. Bleeding in brain. 3 days in hospital, and advised not to get on bike. We rode from Arizona to South Dakota, and pulled a trailer behind the bike, and camped.

3 months later, planned trip to Arkansas, Ozark Mountains. Day before we are leaving, wife breaks her femur. (this is her 4th bone broken since her head injury). She is flown to Tucson for surgery, and I go to Arkansas with her blessings. (We went together about 5 months ago to make up for it). She has been diagnosed with severe osteoporosis. Her breaks and falls were from severe alcoholism. She did not handle the news of me and her mom well. She was drinking over 20 beers a day, and barely eating. Smoking 2 to 3 packs a day.

After the femur break, and me going without her. She has been sober ever since, and has been having the best years of her life with our new way of life. And we are not even close to being done.

I have Cancer. Stage 4. I am controlling it just fine. It gave me a gift of not taking life for granted, and actually living life. Not making excuses not too. My wife has her health, and he Mothers. Her Mother is dying. Mine is also, and I can not see her with the covid thing. But, she accepts it, and so do I. I have made myself #1, and I make damn sure I am happy. What happens when you do this, is the people that are around you are also happy. If they can not be, they go away like a tumbleweed in the wind. The negativity is naturally gone. And, the positivity flows right in.

Yup. Long rant.

Again. If you think this is "hell", and you think you have bad things happening to you. You should work on some serious life changes.

Life is awesome, as long as YOU make it that way.

Life is not the hell, or heaven, or bad, or good. You are. So, until you fix YOU, life will be hell. As people say. Life is what you make of it. I used to sometimes say it was Hell myself. Than I was given a gift.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sakari

[Mr Walker]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:36 PM, Guyver said:

So, that thread title may seem misleading.  I’m not saying I have proof that we live in hell. I offer it as a hypothesis.

Personally I've always felt this life is more like a heaven than a hell.  But then, I am lucky and protected,   and behave rationally and lawfully.  

To go on to your second post 

No life is not suffering. Life is love and joy. 

Rather. our lives are what we make them to be. and we choose how to perceive the world around us. 

Think of yourself as suffering and you  will be Think of yourself as lucky, happy content etc. and you will be. 

And if you also ACT in ways which empower and protect you, such as being law abiding, calm and rational,  and avoiding conflict with others,  then your life will be even better 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

On 12/29/2020 at 4:01 PM, Guyver said:

It matters not how lush the prison, my brother Dejarma, to suffer is to suffer.  To be caged is to be caged.

No A human being is never caged. Even in the deepest, darkest, dungeon, our minds are free, and can take us to any place and any time    The condition of the body is far less important. 

Think of people born without arms and legs, who live full happy lives doing and trying more than many able bodied people,   and even become successful  motivational writers and speakers 

Look up Nick Vujicic 

quote

Life Without Limits is the story of gutsy Nick Vujicic, an amazing 28-year-old Aussie born without arms or legs who is now an internationally successful inspirational speaker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=book+written+by+australian+without+arms+or+legs&rlz=1C1KAFA_enAU554AU554&oq=book+writen+byaustrlianwithout+arms+or+legs++&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i10i22i29i30.12040j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited December 31, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

On 12/29/2020 at 4:22 PM, Guyver said:

Here’s the funny thing.  I saw this really old guy a while ago, he was just trying to walk down the street, he seemed to be having a hard time doing it, but he just had the most amazing smile of contentment on his face, as if his whole life was just one big complete win.  I just don’t get it.  Maybe there is something to enlightenment.  Or he was just mentally retarded.  Wait, that seems wrong.  Nevermind.

Some days that is me.

Most days it is my wife  She is in pretty constant pain, and can hardly walk. but is thankful lto be alive and  appreciates  every moment of every day;   and while it affects  her temper sometimes, generally you would never know . 

If you  have a choice to smile or frown, always smile.

People will notice and appreciate it  

Ive had quite a few people in businesses in my  town ask me why i am always so happy  My answer is something like. " Because i choose to be."  or "Because  i can be"   

[Guyver]

Wow Sakari......well said.  @Sakari

[Guyver]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:33 AM, Nuclear Wessel said:

You cannot attain perfection, as evinced by our physiological makeup.

You will be perpetually imperfect, just like the rest of us. To seek otherwise is only going to bring you pain, acting as a stark reminder that you are and never will be perfect.

Well said.

[Will Due]

40 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Well said.

 

Except that he's wrong. 

I'll say it again. Seeking perfection, is as perfect (in the human sense) as it can possibly be.

"Seek first [perfection] and everything else needful will be included". Most of all, the maximum amount of peace and happiness. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Will Do

[Guyver]

7 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

Except that he's wrong. 

I'll say it again. Seeking perfection, is as perfect (in the human sense) as it can possibly be.

"Seek first [perfection] and everything else needful will be included". Most of all, the maximum amount of peace and happiness. 

 

 

Will, if you check your bible translations, I believe the word “perfect” as attributed to Jesus, actually best translates into “mature” at least I know the Apostle Paul’s version of it does anyway.  It seems it would make more sense. Jesus said be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect....but that doesn’t work because we are not perfect and never will be in this life. God may be perfect, but if a person could be as God, then, I know of some sick children that need healing.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

9 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

Except that he's wrong. 

I'll say it again. Seeking perfection, is as perfect (in the human sense) as it can possibly be.

"Seek first [perfection] and everything else needful will be included". Most of all, the maximum amount of peace and happiness. 

 

 

You are unable to be perfect so to seek perfection is nonsensical. At least objectively so.

I suppose you can create a predefined version of "perfection" and meet that specific criteria so long as you are aware that you will always be objectively flawed no matter how hard you try to be flawless.

Which is to be human.

[Will Due]

41 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Will, if you check your bible translations, I believe the word “perfect” as attributed to Jesus, actually best translates into “mature” at least I know the Apostle Paul’s version of it does anyway.  It seems it would make more sense. Jesus said be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect....but that doesn’t work because we are not perfect and never will be in this life. God may be perfect, but if a person could be as God, then, I know of some sick children that need healing.

 

How do you know for certain that even in a child's psssing there isn't healing in one form or another going on?

 

40 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

You are unable to be perfect so to seek perfection is nonsensical. At least objectively so.

I suppose you can create a predefined version of "perfection" and meet that specific criteria so long as you are aware that you will always be objectively flawed no matter how hard you try to be flawless.

Which is to be human.

 

See the new thread "The Image of God".

 

 

[simplybill]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:15 PM, Guyver said:

You buy into the dream, only to find it’s a nightmare! 

A different perspective:
There’s more than one dream that you can buy into. If the first path you chose led to a dead end, then find a path that better suits your talents and your personality. If I remember correctly, you’re agnostic with some background in Christian beliefs? Consider this scripture:  “...for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” Even if you’re stuck in a job you don’t like, there’s a sense of accomplishment in using the gifts you were born with.