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Will Do

The Image of God

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

 

Quoted rather than edited. 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, OverSword said:

Brain chemistry can be unbalanced and cause hallucinations and other things which can make it impossible for some individuals to have that discipline or control impulses.

Absolutely, and there are diseases that a person cannot control their behavior Korsakoff Psychosis, Korsakoff's Syndrome and Wernicke Encephalopath. 
https://www.healthline.com/health/wernicke-korsakoff-syndrome

It is not unusual for a person to have the above who is combative and violent and incredibly dangerous. 
Memory care facilities have some of these folks,

I was a live in caregiver for one such person with this disease. 

 I also was a care manager for a board and care ( 4 bed) that housed mentally ill patients who were prone to violence for various reasons. Schizophrenia, Wet brain and underlying mental illness, or just an untreated mental illness can lead to violence. Our patients were all controlled by medications and came from families that had the financial means to get them proper help and supervision.. Sadly, this is not the norm here in the US. 

Then there are just people who were abused and bullied as children and grow up and use bullying and intimidation to the point of being violent to other human beings our jails are full of them. Not all seek treatment and even if they do the success rate in actuality is low that they will take an anger management course and turn themselves around, it would be the exception, not the norm. We have plenty of abused woman and children in shelters in fear for their lives from this. 

The reality is in the US, many go undiagnosed and are often homeless. While we do have some resources in California such as a few urgent cares ( 2) for the mentally ill it is a huge issue as far as resources. Covid isn’t helping. 

Mr. Walker basically googles statistics and articles has no background or experience in this field at all, I do think he is trying to be “factual” but all he is demonstrating is that he takes statistics as the be all end all or as literal fact and there is nothing more to be said, he doesn’t have the accompanying expertise or experience in the field. This is a reflection of his CT skill set it needs work, while he has the door open he has not walked through the door as of yet. Of course, his opinion is welcome, just like mine or anyone’s. 
 

I also acknowledge there may be some aspects I do not know or haven’t accounted for so this is my add too and I welcome feedback as opposed to only arguing to be right and derailing threads incessantly, in the meantime. 
 

I also work for a Neurologist/ Psychiatrist and observe the harsh reality of how many refuse help even if offered or suggested or will not seek it in the first place. Just my two cents. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Nuclear Wessel
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Mr. Walker basically googles statistics and articles has no background or experience in this field at all, I do think he is trying to be “factual” but he all he is demonstrating is that he takes statistics as the be all end all or as literally fact and there is nothing more to be said, he doesn’t have the accompanying expertise or experience in the field. This is a reflection of his CT skill set it needs work, while he has the door open he has not walked through the door as of yet. Of course, his opinion is welcome,  just like mine or anyone’s. 

He takes statistics and articles to be the be-all and end-all so long as they fit whatever narrative he is trying to push. :tu:

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence he is unable to accept that anything but his claims are true.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

He takes statistics and articles to be the be-all and end-all so long as they fit whatever narrative he is trying to push. :tu:

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence he is unable to accept that anything but his claims are true, which is why he is a complete and utter waste of my time.

I would add just in general for anyone seriously looking to hone their critical thinking skills that only being “right” is not the equivalent of being a quick study (meaning using feedback to refine as fast as possible )being open to correction, aware and accountable of biases, knowing what one doesn’t know etc. etc  also known as a good quality critical thinker. 
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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OverSword
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I would add just in general for anyone seriously looking to hone their critical thinking skills that only being “right” is not the equivalent of being a quick study (meaning using feedback to refine as fast as possible )being open to correction, aware and accountable of biases, knowing what one doesn’t know etc. etc  also known as a good quality critical thinker. 
 

 

Yes, my uncle was a good person. Police officer, husband, father. But once he started hearing voices it was never going to be the same and he could never really be functional again. Medication was a constant battle because his brain would adapt to it and they would have to try something else. Viscous circle. To suppose that he could have lived a perfect life through willpower was pretty insulting and ignorant. That’s why I stopped responding to walker. Glad to see you get it. Thanks Sherapy.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Yes, my uncle was a good person. Police officer, husband, father. But once he started hearing voices it was never going to be the same and he could never really be functional again. Medication was a constant battle because his brain would adapt to it and they would have to try something else. Viscous circle. To suppose that he could have lived a perfect life through willpower was pretty insulting and ignorant. That’s why I stopped responding to walker. Glad to see you get it. Thanks Sherapy.

Your welcome, I am actually in this line of work. Yes, it is ignorance Walker truly doesn’t know.
I was once advised by someone like him in a situation that was horribly violent. I didn’t listen either. He has no idea how harmful his “advice” can be. He probably means well or I want to think this but, It is a good thing you had the sense to move on. 
And, I hope you are okay and it saddens me about your uncle. That is one hard road for a family. Thank you for your kind words. Happy New Year.

Edited by Sherapy
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OverSword
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Your welcome, I am actually in this line of work. Yes, it is ignorance Walker truly doesn’t know.
I was once advised by someone like him in a situation that was horribly violent. I didn’t listen either. He has no idea how harmful his “advice” can be. He probably means well or I want to think this but, It is a good thing you had the sense to move on. 
And, I hope you are okay and it saddens me about your uncle. That is one hard road for a family. Thank you for your kind words. Happy New Year.

Thanks Sherapy. It wasn’t that walker hurt my feelings or anything like that, I was just amazed at both his arrogance and his ignorance. He’s probably young and in time will likely have closer experience with debilitating mental illness and realize not everything is as simple as he supposes. Wouldn’t it be nice if all there was to overcoming something like schizophrenia was as simple as deciding to defeat it through self control.

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Sherapy
21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Thanks Sherapy. It wasn’t that walker hurt my feelings or anything like that, I was just amazed at both his arrogance and his ignorance. He’s probably young and in time will likely have closer experience with debilitating mental illness and realize not everything is as simple as he supposes. Wouldn’t it be nice if all there was to overcoming something like schizophrenia was as simple as deciding to defeat it through self control.

Yes, in the real world schizophrenia and psychosis’s are not defeated by mental will power. 

This is an important point to make. Well said. 

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Will Do
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Yes, in the real world schizophrenia and psychosis’s are not defeated by mental will power. 

This is an important point to make. Well said. 

 

Mental willpower has a weakness.

It doesn't stand a chance against the power of the heart.

 

 

Edited by Will Do
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To do list

This is more probable than the mainstream version. 

1609579642512_compress86.jpg

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Wepwawet
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Will Do said:

 

Mental willpower has a weakness.

It doesn't stand a chance against the power of the heart.

 

 

Which is why the heart must be bound in a spell to stop it from working against you.

BOD spell 30b

Also, in a thread about the image of God, I find no mention of actual imagery, and the one image that stands out is the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, the images themselves "underpinned" by a blue sky covered with stars, exactly the same decoration as found on the ceiling of the tomb of Thutmose III, among others.

Edited by Wepwawet
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Desertrat56
21 hours ago, OverSword said:

Yes, my uncle was a good person. Police officer, husband, father. But once he started hearing voices it was never going to be the same and he could never really be functional again. Medication was a constant battle because his brain would adapt to it and they would have to try something else. Viscous circle. To suppose that he could have lived a perfect life through willpower was pretty insulting and ignorant. That’s why I stopped responding to walker. Glad to see you get it. Thanks Sherapy.

My brother went through something similar.  Every time they tried a new medicine it was either worse immediately or he felt better for 3 weeks then it was worse than before he started that medicine.   He was a good man in spite of all that and even held a job through it until it got too much for him.

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Mr Walker
On 1/2/2021 at 3:37 AM, Sherapy said:

Absolutely, and there are diseases that a person cannot control their behavior Korsakoff Psychosis, Korsakoff's Syndrome and Wernicke Encephalopath. 
https://www.healthline.com/health/wernicke-korsakoff-syndrome

It is not unusual for a person to have the above who is combative and violent and incredibly dangerous. 
Memory care facilities have some of these folks,

I was a live in caregiver for one such person with this disease. 

 I also was a care manager for a board and care ( 4 bed) that housed mentally ill patients who were prone to violence for various reasons. Schizophrenia, Wet brain and underlying mental illness, or just an untreated mental illness can lead to violence. Our patients were all controlled by medications and came from families that had the financial means to get them proper help and supervision.. Sadly, this is not the norm here in the US. 

Then there are just people who were abused and bullied as children and grow up and use bullying and intimidation to the point of being violent to other human beings our jails are full of them. Not all seek treatment and even if they do the success rate in actuality is low that they will take an anger management course and turn themselves around, it would be the exception, not the norm. We have plenty of abused woman and children in shelters in fear for their lives from this. 

The reality is in the US, many go undiagnosed and are often homeless. While we do have some resources in California such as a few urgent cares ( 2) for the mentally ill it is a huge issue as far as resources. Covid isn’t helping. 

Mr. Walker basically googles statistics and articles has no background or experience in this field at all, I do think he is trying to be “factual” but all he is demonstrating is that he takes statistics as the be all end all or as literal fact and there is nothing more to be said, he doesn’t have the accompanying expertise or experience in the field. This is a reflection of his CT skill set it needs work, while he has the door open he has not walked through the door as of yet. Of course, his opinion is welcome, just like mine or anyone’s. 
 

I also acknowledge there may be some aspects I do not know or haven’t accounted for so this is my add too and I welcome feedback as opposed to only arguing to be right and derailing threads incessantly, in the meantime. 
 

I also work for a Neurologist/ Psychiatrist and observe the harsh reality of how many refuse help even if offered or suggested or will not seek it in the first place. Just my two cents. 

 

 

 

No argument We were talking about peole with mentally well brains and minds 

Those who are not well, either naturally or through intervention usually end up locked up when the y harm themsleves or others 

Ill people need treatment and this should be equal for physical and mental illnesses 

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Mr Walker
On 1/2/2021 at 4:02 AM, Nuclear Wessel said:

He takes statistics and articles to be the be-all and end-all so long as they fit whatever narrative he is trying to push. :tu:

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence he is unable to accept that anything but his claims are true.

I have a decade of professional paid counselling and a background in psychology 

Ive counselled people formally as a teacher  for 45 yeras and i continue to counsel people today 

Other than here on UM I have never had a single complaint or criticism just thanks  I accept the criticisms I got here in trying to help, but suspect the y  come from,  prior prejudice  

The y were, after all, standard recommendations of a general nature, which any psychologist  would suggest  Some people here do need deep professional help and counselling  and i would not attempt to offer this 

I use information to support my views and opinions  I know there are other  reasonable   views and opinions but i can show that  mine are supported by sconce medicine etc. 

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Mr Walker
21 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Yes, in the real world schizophrenia and psychosis’s are not defeated by mental will power. 

This is an important point to make. Well said. 

A tiny percentage of people are affected by those severe illnesses.  I assumed i was talking to people who are still functional 

anxiety depression and lesser mental illnesses can indeed be overcome by cognitive behaviour therapy (which is the application of knoldge and understanding  via willpower and discipline to alter your state of mind and perception )

There is a big move away from t he use of drugs, to this form of therapy and mental readjustment 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
On 1/2/2021 at 5:41 PM, Mr Walker said:

A tiny percentage of people are affected by those severe illnesses.  I assumed i was talking to people who are still functional 

anxiety depression and lesser mental illnesses can indeed be overcome by cognitive behaviour therapy (which is the application of knoldge and understanding  via willpower and discipline to alter your state of mind and perception )

There is a big move away from t he use of drugs, to this form of therapy and mental readjustment 

Wrong, incredibly misleading...CBT in application is the ability to capitalize on the brains plasticity ( which means find a thought that helps one to accept ( honestly) all of themselves, the good, the bad, the ugly, the saint, the sinner, the liar, the  truth teller etc. etc. and everything in between). I would be open to giving you an example if you are interested.  
 

 

The Buddhists, Zen, Jewish, Catholic’s, some Mormon’s, some Christians etc. etc. specifically, for the most part get this in their own unique ways, it isn’t “new.”  Just my two cents from my anecdotal tales, inspired by my life adventures.  
 

What do these people all have in common, no need to answer it is rhetorical food for thought, 

Edited by Sherapy

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Mr Walker
On 1/10/2021 at 8:32 AM, Sherapy said:

Wrong, incredibly misleading...CBT in application is the ability to capitalize on the brains plasticity ( which means find a thought that helps one to accept ( honestly) all of themselves, the good, the bad, the ugly, the saint, the sinner, the liar, the  truth teller etc. etc. and everything in between). I would be open to giving you an example if you are interested.  
 

 

The Buddhists, Zen, Jewish, Catholic’s, some Mormon’s, some Christians etc. etc. specifically, for the most part get this in their own unique ways, it isn’t “new.”  Just my two cents from my anecdotal tales, inspired by my life adventures.  
 

What do these people all have in common, no need to answer it is rhetorical food for thought, 

It is not wrong. (not sure what bit you are referring to, but none of it is wrong or misleading) 

I gave the official numbers  from   Australia and America 

Its also factually correct that modern medicine is trying to reduce or eliminate (where possible) drug treatments, especially with children 

Modern  treatment for PTSD and other illness in the USA (and most advanced countries)  is CBT and DBT (Dialectical Behavioural Therapy.)

CBT is much more complex and diverse than your short summary 

QUOTE

CBT and thoughts, feelings and behaviours

The main focus of CBT is that thoughts, feelings and behaviours combine to influence a person’s quality of life. For example, severe shyness in social situations (social phobia) may come from the person thinking that other people will always find them boring or stupid. This belief could cause the person to feel extremely anxious in social situations. 

This could lead to certain behaviour in social situations, such as trembling, sweating, accelerated heart rate or other uncomfortable symptoms. The person could then feel overwhelmed with negative emotions (such as shame) and negative self-talk (‘I’m such an idiot’). Their fear of social situations could become worse with every bad experience.

CBT aims to teach people that it is possible to have control over their thoughts, feelings and behaviours. CBT helps the person to challenge and overcome automatic beliefs, and use practical strategies to change or modify their behaviour. The result is more positive feelings, which in turn lead to more positive thoughts and behaviours. 

 

CBT is used to treat a range of psychological problems including:

anxiety 

anxiety disorders such as social phobia, obsessive-compulsive disorder or post-traumatic stress disorder

depression

low self-esteem

irrational fears

hypochondria

substance misuse, such as smoking, drinking or other drug use

problem gambling 

eating disorders

insomnia

marriage or relationship problems

certain emotional or behavioural problems in children or teenagers.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/cognitive-behaviour-therapy

Edited by Mr Walker

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jmccr8
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It is not wrong. (not sure what bit you are referring to, but none of it is wrong or misleading) 

I gave the official numbers  from   Australia and America 

Its also factually correct that modern medicine is trying to reduce or eliminate (where possible) drug treatments, especially with children 

Modern  treatment for PTSD and other illness in the USA (and most advanced countries)  is CBT and DBT (Dialectical Behavioural Therapy.)

CBT is much more complex and diverse than your short summary 

QUOTE

CBT and thoughts, feelings and behaviours

The main focus of CBT is that thoughts, feelings and behaviours combine to influence a person’s quality of life. For example, severe shyness in social situations (social phobia) may come from the person thinking that other people will always find them boring or stupid. This belief could cause the person to feel extremely anxious in social situations. 

This could lead to certain behaviour in social situations, such as trembling, sweating, accelerated heart rate or other uncomfortable symptoms. The person could then feel overwhelmed with negative emotions (such as shame) and negative self-talk (‘I’m such an idiot’). Their fear of social situations could become worse with every bad experience.

CBT aims to teach people that it is possible to have control over their thoughts, feelings and behaviours. CBT helps the person to challenge and overcome automatic beliefs, and use practical strategies to change or modify their behaviour. The result is more positive feelings, which in turn lead to more positive thoughts and behaviours. 

 

CBT is used to treat a range of psychological problems including:

anxiety 

anxiety disorders such as social phobia, obsessive-compulsive disorder or post-traumatic stress disorder

depression

low self-esteem

irrational fears

hypochondria

substance misuse, such as smoking, drinking or other drug use

problem gambling 

eating disorders

insomnia

marriage or relationship problems

certain emotional or behavioural problems in children or teenagers.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/cognitive-behaviour-therapy

Hi Walker

After I read your last few post I was thinking we should do a Dr. Walker  You Tube spoof of Dr. Phil or Dr. Ruth. 50/50 0n finances.:D

jmccr

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third_eye

Trump TV Comedy Central exclusive 

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Mr Walker
40 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

After I read your last few post I was thinking we should do a Dr. Walker  You Tube spoof of Dr. Phil or Dr. Ruth. 50/50 0n finances.:D

jmccr

I wouldn't be much help. I've never seen even a minute of either of those shows :) 

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

I wouldn't be much help. I've never seen even a minute of either of those shows :) 

Hi Walker

It's a spoof but Dr.Ruth was on radio and Dr.Phil has a tv program so easily researched so do a little homework and get back to me if you are interested in making a channel and the good thing is you don't have to act or remember lines.:D:tu:

jmccr8

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eight bits
On 1/9/2021 at 5:02 PM, Sherapy said:

( which means find a thought that helps one to accept ( honestly) all of themselves, the good, the bad, the ugly, the saint, the sinner, the liar, the  truth teller etc. etc. and everything in between). I would be open to giving you an example if you are interested.  
The Buddhists, Zen, Jewish, Catholic’s, some Mormon’s, some Christians etc. etc. specifically, for the most part get this in their own unique ways, it isn’t “new.”  Just my two cents from my anecdotal tales, inspired by my life adventures.  

That's very Jungian.

CBT isn't Jungian depth analysis, but your statement of the ultimate goal of CBT fits in nicely with Jung. Maybe one difference is that CBT is results oriented, while depth analysis is more concerned to acquaint analysands with all of themselves. Jung acknowledged somewhere, though, that just becoming aware of the unconscious portions of the self would not in itself solve quality of life issues.

If I could point to one Jungian "thought" about achieving acceptance: Your characterization of the all included two archetypes, the saint and the sinner. The therapeutic boilerplate advice is don't identify with an archetype. Which is said in the sense of identify with the everything, the polar opposites and the in between - all that is there (and that isn't going anywhere, so deal with it).

And of course Jung's own taste was partial to comparative religion, and so he'd be on board that so many thraditions had long ago found different ways to express that idea (and different paths to get there).

Which brings us back around to the topic. The fully integrated, balanced, self-accepting-self was Jung's ideal state of being, and one of his conceptions of it was ... the image of God. (Abraxas, as Jung called that god in Seven Sermons to the Dead, which became the basis of the Pistorius sections of Hermann Hesse's novel Demian)

ETA: @Mr Walker

One of the dangers of mining copypasta by search terms is that the article you find might use some key word that you use, but use it differently than you use it. To control covers a multitude of relationships between the controller and the controlled. (I can't type that sentence without my mind's ear lapsing into French - the cognate of our word in French often means simply to check or verify something ... which is one possible meaning in English, too).

This may help explain why you so often post quote blocks that you think support your position, while your readers see plainly that they do not. As would be the case in the current instance.

Edited by eight bits
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Nuclear Wessel
30 minutes ago, eight bits said:

@Mr Walker

One of the dangers of mining copypasta by search terms is that the article you find might use some key word that you use, but use it differently than you use it. To control covers a multitude of relationships between the controller and the controlled. (I can't type that sentence without my mind's ear lapsing into French - the cognate of our word in French often means simply to check or verify something ... which is one possible meaning in English, too).

This may help explain why you so often post quote blocks that you think support your position, while your readers see plainly that they do not. As would be the case in the current instance.

Oh, I'm sure that Paul is going to rebut that you misinterpret what he's saying, and that if you read his post again you would see that the quote supports everything he's saying. :rolleyes:

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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Sherapy
8 hours ago, eight bits said:

That's very Jungian.

CBT isn't Jungian depth analysis, but your statement of the ultimate goal of CBT fits in nicely with Jung. Maybe one difference is that CBT is results oriented, while depth analysis is more concerned to acquaint analysands with all of themselves. Jung acknowledged somewhere, though, that just becoming aware of the unconscious portions of the self would not in itself solve quality of life issues.

If I could point to one Jungian "thought" about achieving acceptance: Your characterization of the all included two archetypes, the saint and the sinner. The therapeutic boilerplate advice is don't identify with an archetype. Which is said in the sense of identify with the everything, the polar opposites and the in between - all that is there (and that isn't going anywhere, so deal with it).

And of course Jung's own taste was partial to comparative religion, and so he'd be on board that so many thraditions had long ago found different ways to express that idea (and different paths to get there).

Which brings us back around to the topic. The fully integrated, balanced, self-accepting-self was Jung's ideal state of being, and one of his conceptions of it was ... the image of God. (Abraxas, as Jung called that god in Seven Sermons to the Dead, which became the basis of the Pistorius sections of Hermann Hesse's novel Demian)

ETA: @Mr Walker

One of the dangers of mining copypasta by search terms is that the article you find might use some key word that you use, but use it differently than you use it. To control covers a multitude of relationships between the controller and the controlled. (I can't type that sentence without my mind's ear lapsing into French - the cognate of our word in French often means simply to check or verify something ... which is one possible meaning in English, too).

This may help explain why you so often post quote blocks that you think support your position, while your readers see plainly that they do not. As would be the case in the current instance.

Excellent add to Paul, including the advice to Walker. Searching terms to be righteous is far different then searching or seeking from a place of knowledge, understanding or experience. 

 

“Do No Harm” is deeply imbedded in most paths too and this came before Jesus and the ability to recognize when one is doing harm, even well meaning. 

MW does offer an excellent opportunity to explore the novice and CBT who thinks they (control ones thoughts for wellness) in a sense they are using a coping style for dealing with the negative thoughts ( mindset ) they are plagued with and this offers systemic relief, but only temporarily. But this isn’t CBT applied. CBT’s first  goal is to heal by grasping how the mind can distort and delude oneself and many other things.. Often recurring issues are emotional, or deeply subconscious while some have a mental component some do not as you so eloquently pointed out. I personally see much of the same outcomes in those that critically think their way to wellness. I think this is a path too. 
 In staying with Walkers example of shyness, or not wanting to communicate, I think Maya Angelous’s “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings” is an incredible story of ones journey to and from silencing their voice. This can happen in many contexts, the point is shyness can be how one survives. 

I also see the mindfulness of Jung too. “Acceptance”  the sutra ( thread ) that runs through all the examples.  Thanks for pointing this out.

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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third_eye

Breaking habits... 

Quote

 

[00.01:39]

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