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Eldorado

Nation on the verge of a nervous breakdown

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Eldorado

Right now, millions of Americans (a majority of Republicans) believe that the election was stolen, despite the absence of any evidence to support the claim and the abundant evidence refuting it.

Additionally, millions (one third) of Americans are open to QAnon theories, an umbrella term for “a sprawling set of internet conspiracy theories that allege, falsely, that the world is run by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who are plotting against Mr. Trump while operating a global child sex-trafficking ring.”

In other words, millions of Americans endorse fervently a set of false and at times bizarre beliefs without evidence and in the face of thorough refutation.

Full article at Psychology Today: Link

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Eldorado

For as long as humans have been inquisitive about the natural world, practitioners have sought each other out to talk about it. Over time scientists developed their own languages allowing easy and quick communication of technical details and scientific nuances between scientists. But translating these languages for understanding by nonscientists is difficult. As a result, non-scientists’ may reject scientific fact in rebuke of perceived science elitism. 

The information age allows for rapid dissemination of disinformation and conspiracy theories. Emotion-filled, anti-science disinformation is easier to understand and embrace without thinking, evaluating or questioning. Willful ignorance and tribalism increases, and anger and distrust are engendered toward science and scientists.  

While America’s strength in science and engineering was once a source of national pride and patriotism, it is no longer for many Americans. We must endeavor to return pride in science and understanding of science in the general public. A stark reversal of this trend requires a concerted tripartite educational partnership involving scientists, the non-science public and the government.

The Hill

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joc

All Media is Propaganda!  

If you read the headlines and believe any of it, you have been propagandized.  It's never been about anything most of you think it is or has.

I have been telling you all for years.  This is all about Russia.  Pure and simple.

In the end...who is going to win by America becoming Socialist?   Ahem...Russia.

 

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joc

You need to go back and look at what happened to the Soviet Union.  They simply could not keep up with the Energy Expansion Economy unleashed by Ronald Reagan.  Plus Reagan was in their face, wouldn't back down, called them An Evil Empire.  Got them to tear down the Berlin Wall.

After the Soviet collapse, civil war did ensue.  The War in Kosovo and others.  The people trashed the Kremlin, tore down statues of Lenin and Stalin.

The Soviet Politburo...all of those old school hard line Communist guys...what happened to them?  Did they just all go home and say, Ah well Komrad..you win some you lose some...?  No.  They regrouped like they always have and came up with plans how to get back what they had lost.

It happened slowly but consistently over decades...steadfastly planting the seeds of Socialism around the world.  The Green Movement.  Working their way into the fabric of American Politics and Media.  They want one thing...complete control.  Is that too much to ask for?  

After the Media spoons the people into believing f(or at least tries to) that Biden cured Covid 19, the first thing the Democrats will do is implement Single Payer Health Care.  Or at least try like hell. With the Presidency and both houses who can stop them?  The SCOTUS??  pfffft  That is exactly what Obama preached to the AFL/CIO  ...it might take 15 years, but we'll get there.  First thing we have to do is take the Presidency, then both houses of Congress...

Many of you may actually think Single Payer is a great thing.  Once the government gets their hands on your health care and all that money...it will quickly become something you wish you'd never heard of.  All the Socialists in all the great Socialist countries with Socialist healthcare will say I am crazy.   The difference is once that happens in America.  The Constitution will be virtually rewritten over night.  Eventually it will be propagandized into the American Culture by the ever willing Media that How You Vote  has something to do with the quality of the health care you receive.   

If The Government is in complete control of your health care...you won't really have to much to say about it...some bureaucrat in New Jersey will be making decisions on whether or not you get that MRI you think you need and when.  And then you get to the day of your MRI only to find out that you don't have an appointment at all...no one knows, it was there but...it's gone...gotta start all over again...and eventually it will get in your mind that how you vote had everything to do with it.

Conspiracy you say?   Nah...  Just musing my thoughts. 

 

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lightly
30 minutes ago, joc said:

All Media is Propaganda!  

If you read the headlines and believe any of it, you have been propagandized.  It's never been about anything most of you think it is or has.

I have been telling you all for years.  This is all about Russia.  Pure and simple.

In the end...who is going to win by America becoming Socialist?   Ahem...Russia.

 

I respect your opinion,.    But, I perceive the world entirely differently...   I see unfolding ,a battle between purely capitalistic forces and we the people.   The capitalists have given CORPORATE  beings personhood ..and it's these corporate personages which are fomenting civil war . A war against an imaginary Socialistic enemy.   The  so called, right, have stolen the playbook of the 'left'.       Of course, I could be wrong too. :P.    But, seriously, I see unbridled capitalism as the biggest threat to the independence and sovereignty of the nation...and I see the media as a tool in that endeavor .

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joc
2 minutes ago, lightly said:

I respect your opinion,.    But, I perceive the world entirely differently...   I see unfolding ,a battle between purely capitalistic forces and we the people.   The capitalists have given CORPORATE  beings personhood ..and it's these corporate personages which are fomenting civil war . A war against an imaginary Socialistic enemy.   The  so called, right, have stolen the playbook of the 'left'.       Of course, I could be wrong too. :P.    But, seriously, I see unbridled capitalism as the biggest threat to the independence and sovereignty of the nation...and I see the media as a tool in that endeavor .

The problem with that lightly is that...we the people...we are the Capitalistic Forces.  What is going on in a nut shell is a war between The Capitalistic Forces and The Socialistic Forces.  

Capitalism basically says...you can go out and start your own business  and make as much as you can and keep what you can after you pay all them there taxes!  Socialism basically says...go out and work and give most of what you make back to the government that takes care of you and all the people who don't work for whatever reason.

It isn't about the Corporations.  It is always about Freedom.  When the Government IS the Corporation...that's when you got real problems.

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lightly
3 minutes ago, joc said:

The problem with that lightly is that...we the people...we are the Capitalistic Forces.  What is going on in a nut shell is a war between The Capitalistic Forces and The Socialistic Forces.  

Capitalism basically says...you can go out and start your own business  and make as much as you can and keep what you can after you pay all them there taxes!  Socialism basically says...go out and work and give most of what you make back to the government that takes care of you and all the people who don't work for whatever reason.

It isn't about the Corporations.  It is always about Freedom.  When the Government IS the Corporation...that's when you got real problems.

I'd like to respond to this....but ,. Later,. Wife says we're going for a walk now.   :P

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Dreamer screamer
1 hour ago, joc said:

All Media is Propaganda!  

If you read the headlines and believe any of it, you have been propagandized.  It's never been about anything most of you think it is or has.

I have been telling you all for years.  This is all about Russia.  Pure and simple.

In the end...who is going to win by America becoming Socialist?   Ahem...Russia.

 

Russia?  seems you have been proPAGANized. It's not about Russia.  This goes into Electricity, and that is a clue...

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Dreamer screamer
15 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'd like to respond to this....but ,. Later,. Wife says we're going for a walk now.   :P

The ole ball and chain deciding what you do....

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joc
1 minute ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Russia?  seems you have been proPAGANized. It's not about Russia.  This goes into Electricity, and that is a clue...

Of course it's about Russia...since the fall of Nazi Germany it has been about Russia.  

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Golden Duck
3 hours ago, joc said:

You need to go back and look at what happened to the Soviet Union.  They simply could not keep up with the Energy Expansion Economy unleashed by Ronald Reagan.  Plus Reagan was in their face, wouldn't back down, called them An Evil Empire.  Got them to tear down the Berlin Wall.

After the Soviet collapse, civil war did ensue.  The War in Kosovo and others.  The people trashed the Kremlin, tore down statues of Lenin and Stalin.

The Soviet Politburo...all of those old school hard line Communist guys...what happened to them?  Did they just all go home and say, Ah well Komrad..you win some you lose some...?  No.  They regrouped like they always have and came up with plans how to get back what they had lost.

It happened slowly but consistently over decades...steadfastly planting the seeds of Socialism around the world.  The Green Movement.  Working their way into the fabric of American Politics and Media.  They want one thing...complete control.  Is that too much to ask for?  

After the Media spoons the people into believing f(or at least tries to) that Biden cured Covid 19, the first thing the Democrats will do is implement Single Payer Health Care.  Or at least try like hell. With the Presidency and both houses who can stop them?  The SCOTUS??  pfffft  That is exactly what Obama preached to the AFL/CIO  ...it might take 15 years, but we'll get there.  First thing we have to do is take the Presidency, then both houses of Congress...

Many of you may actually think Single Payer is a great thing.  Once the government gets their hands on your health care and all that money...it will quickly become something you wish you'd never heard of.  All the Socialists in all the great Socialist countries with Socialist healthcare will say I am crazy.   The difference is once that happens in America.  The Constitution will be virtually rewritten over night.  Eventually it will be propagandized into the American Culture by the ever willing Media that How You Vote  has something to do with the quality of the health care you receive.   

If The Government is in complete control of your health care...you won't really have to much to say about it...some bureaucrat in New Jersey will be making decisions on whether or not you get that MRI you think you need and when.  And then you get to the day of your MRI only to find out that you don't have an appointment at all...no one knows, it was there but...it's gone...gotta start all over again...and eventually it will get in your mind that how you vote had everything to do with it.

Conspiracy you say?   Nah...  Just musing my thoughts. 

 

If how you describe your health systems operates is accurate it's very bizarre.  Here in Oz neither the public health system, nor the private health insurers decide which procedures a patient may receive - just how much they will pay.

There was a time when I effectively insured myself and put all my spare cash into a mortgage.  I paid for a knee reconstruction by redrawing the loan.

It's surprising that you don't have that liberty there

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joc
50 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

If how you describe your health systems operates is accurate it's very bizarre.  Here in Oz neither the public health system, nor the private health insurers decide which procedures a patient may receive - just how much they will pay.

There was a time when I effectively insured myself and put all my spare cash into a mortgage.  I paid for a knee reconstruction by redrawing the loan.

It's surprising that you don't have that liberty there

It's surprising we don't...that's for sure.   Obama care killed all that. Designed to fail to usher in Single Payer.  No private health care...only the government.

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Right now, millions of Americans (a majority of Republicans) believe that the election was stolen, despite the absence of any evidence to support the claim and the abundant evidence refuting it.

Additionally, millions (one third) of Americans are open to QAnon theories, an umbrella term for “a sprawling set of internet conspiracy theories that allege, falsely, that the world is run by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who are plotting against Mr. Trump while operating a global child sex-trafficking ring.”

In other words, millions of Americans endorse fervently a set of false and at times bizarre beliefs without evidence and in the face of thorough refutation.

Full article at Psychology Today: Link

No actually it is not the Nation, it is the Mental Stability / Ability of the current President to continue as the President. After what he caused to occur today there is no doubt that he doesn't have the mental capacity to even continue in his position for next the 14 days.

JIMO

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, joc said:

You need to go back and look at what happened to the Soviet Union.  They simply could not keep up with the Energy Expansion Economy unleashed by Ronald Reagan.  Plus Reagan was in their face, wouldn't back down, called them An Evil Empire.  Got them to tear down the Berlin Wall.

After the Soviet collapse, civil war did ensue.  The War in Kosovo and others.  The people trashed the Kremlin, tore down statues of Lenin and Stalin.

The Soviet Politburo...all of those old school hard line Communist guys...what happened to them?  Did they just all go home and say, Ah well Komrad..you win some you lose some...?  No.  They regrouped like they always have and came up with plans how to get back what they had lost.

It happened slowly but consistently over decades...steadfastly planting the seeds of Socialism around the world.  The Green Movement.  Working their way into the fabric of American Politics and Media.  They want one thing...complete control.  Is that too much to ask for?  

After the Media spoons the people into believing f(or at least tries to) that Biden cured Covid 19, the first thing the Democrats will do is implement Single Payer Health Care.  Or at least try like hell. With the Presidency and both houses who can stop them?  The SCOTUS??  pfffft  That is exactly what Obama preached to the AFL/CIO  ...it might take 15 years, but we'll get there.  First thing we have to do is take the Presidency, then both houses of Congress...

Many of you may actually think Single Payer is a great thing.  Once the government gets their hands on your health care and all that money...it will quickly become something you wish you'd never heard of.  All the Socialists in all the great Socialist countries with Socialist healthcare will say I am crazy.   The difference is once that happens in America.  The Constitution will be virtually rewritten over night.  Eventually it will be propagandized into the American Culture by the ever willing Media that How You Vote  has something to do with the quality of the health care you receive.   

If The Government is in complete control of your health care...you won't really have to much to say about it...some bureaucrat in New Jersey will be making decisions on whether or not you get that MRI you think you need and when.  And then you get to the day of your MRI only to find out that you don't have an appointment at all...no one knows, it was there but...it's gone...gotta start all over again...and eventually it will get in your mind that how you vote had everything to do with it.

Conspiracy you say?   Nah...  Just musing my thoughts. 

 

I like it, but Russia is not  the threat 

We are already in a deep cold war with China across the globe  which, almost inevitably, will become a hot one, unless the democracies surrender   without a fight 

On the other hand, Single payer healthcare is brilliant, and every wealthy country should be adopting it.

   Australia uses a specific levy on income but it can be funded by many ways 

One primary role of a state is the care of its citizens That involves not just protection  from foreign and domestic threats but looking after every one of them 

This can be achieved through capitalism  as easily as through socialism.   

There is no reason why anyone In America or Australia should not have access  to good education, good healthcare and good housing.  If you want  better than good, then pay extra 

eg triple bypass  two heart valves replaced Total of 9 weeks in hospital Not  single dollar cost for me

My wife receives about $3000 a month on a care plan (which can only be used for her healthcare) We  Just bought electric beds a wheel  chair   ramps and some other items without cost to us Her home helpers are also paid from  this fund. ATM she only needs 2 hours per week but could afford a lot more 

No charge for doctors, nurses or hospital visits, and you can get into a regular appointment in a couple of days, or the same day in an emergency 

I pay $100 a year for ambulance  fees and that covers all ambulance transport anywhere in  Australia  But transfer for medical reasons such as from hospital to hospital and air ambulance  was already covered  for free. I paid the extra for non emergency, and home to hospital transfers.

Safety net on chemist scripts (which each cost about $6 ) After about 6 months we hit the safety net and dont pay anything for medicines  until the new year 

free consults for eyesight and hearing, and last time I actually made a profit because the rebate was more than the glasses i bought .

Edited by Mr Walker
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Saru

Thread cleaned

@Dreamer screamer - please avoid derailing topics with things that have nothing to do with what is being discussed.

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lightly
18 hours ago, joc said:

The problem with that lightly is that...we the people...we are the Capitalistic Forces.  What is going on in a nut shell is a war between The Capitalistic Forces and The Socialistic Forces.  

Capitalism basically says...you can go out and start your own business  and make as much as you can and keep what you can after you pay all them there taxes!  Socialism basically says...go out and work and give most of what you make back to the government that takes care of you and all the people who don't work for whatever reason.

It isn't about the Corporations.  It is always about Freedom.  When the Government IS the Corporation...that's when you got real problems.

    Well, yes.    It's amazing how we seem to see the same problem from opposite directions!    The problem is....Corporate CONTROL  of government.     You use our healthcare system as an example of succumbing to Socialist forces.   I see it being more and more, directed and controlled by Capitalistic forces.    There's no money to be made in Socialism, other than what can be siphoned off.   (Russia,and more and more, the U.S.)

.      For example,  in my 'Advantage plan'..    Medicare/Social Security pays PRIORITY  insurance $700 a mo. .  and I pay PRIORITY $120 a mo.).     so, PRIORITY is taking in  $820  a mo. to insure me. ..or whoever...    THAT would be a profitable arrangement for the insurance co. ....in most cases.    That's how they make money and stay in business.         It's ALWAYS about making money.   Look at who will make money and you will know who influenced the accompanying legislation into existence.    (oo that's good!). :P     It's the costs imposed by the insurance companies, and the drug companies, and the hospital systems and thier INCORPORATED owners WHO are sucking the life's blood from healthcare ...not socialists.  .??

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2021 at 12:34 PM, Golden Duck said:

If how you describe your health systems operates is accurate it's very bizarre.  Here in Oz neither the public health system, nor the private health insurers decide which procedures a patient may receive - just how much they will pay.

There was a time when I effectively insured myself and put all my spare cash into a mortgage.  I paid for a knee reconstruction by redrawing the loan.

It's surprising that you don't have that liberty there

I suspect many non Australians dont suspect how good we have it here, and many Australians take it for granted 

I  would have thought that  Obama care still allowed for private insurance, as does the Aussie system, but,  for most people, the public system is excellent. 

Can i ask why you had to pay for your own knee reconstruction? My wife has had two, and neither cost her anything. She had a short wait, but nothing too long or painful  

 If she had wanted it done immediately,  and privately, then we would have had to pay for it    She may have got a little more after care, with physio etc.,  if we had gone private,  but would have been in the same  hospital with the same surgeons. 

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Golden Duck
10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Can i ask why you had to pay for your own knee reconstruction? My wife has had two, and neither cost her anything. She had a short wait, but nothing too long or painful

I was in my twenties and didn't want to wait to go through the public system.  I'd let my private health insurance lapse; but, like I said all spare cash was going into a mortgage.

Later I got married and with children on the way I made sure we had private health insurance - especially before i turned 31 to avoid the lifetime levy.

You might be getting some benefits for having a Health Care Card.  I think that's the only way to get access to (public) dental without PHI.

 

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psyche101
On 1/7/2021 at 7:51 AM, joc said:

All Media is Propaganda!  

If you read the headlines and believe any of it, you have been propagandized.  It's never been about anything most of you think it is or has.

I have been telling you all for years.  This is all about Russia.  Pure and simple.

In the end...who is going to win by America becoming Socialist?   Ahem...Russia.

 

No it's not joc. Nothing is absolute. 

If nothing can be trusted, how can you learn about anything ever? Is running on a self proclaimed ideology really what you advocate?

I don't think so. 

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joc
9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

No it's not joc. Nothing is absolute. 

If nothing can be trusted, how can you learn about anything ever? Is running on a self proclaimed ideology really what you advocate?

I don't think so. 

Okay...Would you care to answer the following question?

10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

In the end...who is going to win by America becoming Socialist? 

 

 

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psyche101
7 minutes ago, joc said:

Okay...Would you care to answer the following question?

That's not at all saying why one could blanket all media with the same brush. 

But your question depends. What is socialism to you? For instance, what all socialists have in common is a dislike for the class system, where some people work incredibly hard all their lives and end up with nothing, while other people get to make money in their sleep just by owning things. Socialists think that if you work for a company, you ought to reap rewards when it succeeds, and you ought to have a say in how it’s run. Would you disagree with that?

I'd say it's for the American people to decide on how they want their country run, and what would solve the crises afflicting the general population. Then they would win. The democratic system has just prevailed whilst under extreme pressure, yet it survived. I think that's something that shows the people will prevail regardless.

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

I was in my twenties and didn't want to wait to go through the public system.  I'd let my private health insurance lapse; but, like I said all spare cash was going into a mortgage.

Later I got married and with children on the way I made sure we had private health insurance - especially before i turned 31 to avoid the lifetime levy.

You might be getting some benefits for having a Health Care Card.  I think that's the only way to get access to (public) dental without PHI.

 

I do have cover for dental and glasses but hardly ever use them  Medicare covers all the eye expenses and most of the dental 

Living in the country there is really no point in private cover as you get the same people and care, as a public patient  

I pay a little for things like echocardiograms, but most of that is  also  covered by Medicare and it is paid before i even get a bill 

Ive been on a healthcare plan since i was about 54, which meant no charges by doctors and as a pensioner of course its all free anyway. 

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Crazy Horse
On 1/6/2021 at 11:05 PM, joc said:

Of course it's about Russia...since the fall of Nazi Germany it has been about Russia.  

Even before Nazi Germany, Napoleon had his beady little eye on Moscow.

And so the Bolshevik/Marxist revolution was fermented, and hell soon followed. The same hell that followed the Marxist Cultural revolution in China.

10s of millions starved to death and slaughtered. 

Russia has always been the prize in my opinion but, who benefits from a socialist/Marxist US?

It is obviously China - and with Biden et al in the WH, things can only get worse.

Food and seeds are going to be the new gold and silver.

 

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joc
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Even before Nazi Germany, Napoleon had his beady little eye on Moscow.

And so the Bolshevik/Marxist revolution was fermented, and hell soon followed. The same hell that followed the Marxist Cultural revolution in China.

10s of millions starved to death and slaughtered. 

Russia has always been the prize in my opinion but, who benefits from a socialist/Marxist US?

It is obviously China - and with Biden et al in the WH, things can only get worse.

Food and seeds are going to be the new gold and silver.

 

With Russia...everything is a tool.  Islamic Jihadists are a tool.  China is a tool.   The Goal is Global Russian Expansion.  Who were we really fighting in Korea...Vietnam...Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan?  Russia.   There is only one country that can/will/has stood up to Russian globalist expansion and that is the US.  So...they plant their seeds of Socialism here and there and decades later they are growing like weeds in a Rose garden.

And who will eventually be in control of the US and it's military?  Russia.

It started out very innocuous working through Environmental Groups they spread Environmentalism to the point of Go Green.  It has it's roots in Moscow.  

To what end Environmentalism?  Remember...everything is a tool.  They used the tool of environmentalism to virtually shut down the US Energy Production Capabilities...no drilling in Alaska...bad for the environment.  No drilling in the Gulf...bad for the environment.  And as with all things...there is a spark of truth somewhere in the mix.  That is what makes it believable...but the desire was to curb US Economic Growth by destroying or slowing as much as they could, the Oil Production Capabilities of America.  They succeeded for a very long time.  The end result was to catch up as much as they could economically.  

Meanwhile...The Media...........

9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's not at all saying why one could blanket all media with the same brush. 

But your question depends. What is socialism to you? For instance, what all socialists have in common is a dislike for the class system, where some people work incredibly hard all their lives and end up with nothing, while other people get to make money in their sleep just by owning things. Socialists think that if you work for a company, you ought to reap rewards when it succeeds, and you ought to have a say in how it’s run. Would you disagree with that?

I'd say it's for the American people to decide on how they want their country run, and what would solve the crises afflicting the general population. Then they would win. The democratic system has just prevailed whilst under extreme pressure, yet it survived. I think that's something that shows the people will prevail regardless.

This is how the media works:  AP puts out a news story.  ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, BBC....they all run with the same news story...yeah, you can and should paint them all with the same brush...

Edited by joc

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Crazy Horse
12 minutes ago, joc said:

With Russia...everything is a tool.  Islamic Jihadists are a tool.  China is a tool.   The Goal is Global Russian Expansion.  Who were we really fighting in Korea...Vietnam...Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan?  Russia.   There is only one country that can/will/has stood up to Russian globalist expansion and that is the US.  So...they plant their seeds of Socialism here and there and decades later they are growing like weeds in a Rose garden.

And who will eventually be in control of the US and it's military?  Russia.

It started out very innocuous working through Environmental Groups they spread Environmentalism to the point of Go Green.  It has it's roots in Moscow.  

To what end Environmentalism?  Remember...everything is a tool.  They used the tool of environmentalism to virtually shut down the US Energy Production Capabilities...no drilling in Alaska...bad for the environment.  No drilling in the Gulf...bad for the environment.  And as with all things...there is a spark of truth somewhere in the mix.  That is what makes it believable...but the desire was to curb US Economic Growth by destroying or slowing as much as they could, the Oil Production Capabilities of America.  They succeeded for a very long time.  The end result was to catch up as much as they could economically.  

 

To my mind there has only been one Globalist Expansion, and that was the Anglo/US cabal.

Russia was communist back in the day, and certainly did contribute to those wars you mentioned, but todays Russia has changed since those dark days.

China on the other hand is still very much a communist country. 

Just last month the NY Post reported on the mass infiltration of US companies by CCP members - with serious national security implications.

And who exactly closed the US Energy Production Capabilities?

 

 

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