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ChrLzs

Just To Clarify - How to Run a US Election

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ChrLzs

How about we identify the basic problem, and constructively look at ways to rectify it...

First up, I get the strong impression that the main gripe of the aggrieved Republicans is that many believe the elections were rigged.  Yes?

(Let's just totally ignore the fact that audits and recounts have been done, the outcomes have been verified in all states by bi-partisan examiners and that the Courts have rejected all of the claims of any fraud that could have changed any result...)

 

So, tell me, those with a gripe - how would you fix this?  What would satisfy you in regard to an election process?  What isn't or hasn't been done to ensure a correct result?

Or do you simply reject democracy?

 

Before answering, may I suggest (*snip*) that you understand how your election process actually works, including audits and recounts...

Edited by Saru
Best not to call out specific members
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Buzz_Light_Year

Voter ID is the only solution and both parties seem not to want it and the Democrats more so.

Most states require 2-3 forms of ID just to get a drivers license and the same should be for Voter ID.

In the U.S. you literally can't do anything without an ID except vote.

Can't buy tobacco, alcohol, travel, cash a check and etc......

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the13bats

I will be a bit surprized if you very many replies that arent biased and right leaning,

If we get past the 2020 election and the fact that all it takes is the right person not happy with the outcome to yell "fraud" and with no actual proof have some of his subjects believe it to the point of comminting acts of domestic terrorism im doubtful they would actually honor any solution that doesnt end with their guy winning,

For example voter id sounds great and that gets implemented and their guy still loses that side will rant and rave how they faked IDs to buy booze when young,

I dont have an answer because thst side showed me they will never be playcated or satisfied.

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aztek
13 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Voter ID is the only solution and both parties seem not to want it and the Democrats more so.

Most states require 2-3 forms of ID just to get a drivers license and the same should be for Voter ID.

In the U.S. you literally can't do anything without an ID except vote.

Can't buy tobacco, alcohol, travel, cash a check and etc......

that would make sense if  the elections were a show for the masses,  and no one is really elected by people, in that case voter id can complicate it,   but we know, strongly believe  it is not the case, no no no.. 

Edited by aztek

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Michelle
15 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Voter ID is the only solution and both parties seem not to want it and the Democrats more so.

I've been advocating for that for years. With technology advancing so quickly now I wouldn't be opposed to a thumb print.

https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/security/biometric-payment-card.html

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RAyMO

Voter Id yes - but must be easily obtainable or a state election ID available at no cost;

Abundance of voting stations in all community areas

common rules across states for handling absent / mail in voting - in fact common rules across the states for all aspects of the election.

political and impartial independent observers to be allowed at the voting stations and the count

All grievances about laws or rules pertaining to elections to be brought before the election ensues - so as to not disenfranchise voters who followed the rules

All votes including mail in and overseas to be date stamped no later than election day - and counting to be allowed for a defined number of days to allow such votes to be tabulated

Recounts only to be available if counts are within 0.5% - no paid for recounts - maximum of two recounts. 

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rashore

I think that something that could be helpful would be to implement a section on voting and the voting process in high schools. More than just basic government. Teach a couple of class rounds on that states voting process, include election inspector/poll worker training courses. And teaching the different things on ballots and how they apply from the local to Federal levels like what the different officials are, and how to read and understand proposition language on ballots. Include another class on how that state is similar and different than other state rules. And how the state and Federal levels work. 

I remember back in high school one of the government classes included some time sitting in a courtroom to see what happens. I think the same could apply for students to sit in on an election day as helpers to see what really happens. Many places have smaller elections outside the big 2&4 year ones, and goodness knows most polling places could use extra help- especially technology savvy help that understands computers and such. Maybe as an extra credit thing?

I think some of the troubles and misunderstandings, it's because a lot of people don't really know what happens. It's one thing to be a voter and understand (or not) the process from that side of the tables. It's a much deeper and better understanding of the process on the worker side of the table. I think education while in that last year or two of high school could be a good thing. 

A good step that many states had already started on and really stepped up on last year was on line inspector/worker training. Youtube channels, written materials easily available online. Zoom training sometimes instead of the packed rooms of in person training. I think anyone that seems to not know or gets mad and goes "how the bleep could that happen?" should hop online and take some of their states training for voting.

I think another thing that could be helpful is for states to check to make sure their voter rolls are clean in odd number years when there are fewer big elections going on. Help make sure that things like dead or moved away folks are taken off rolls, make sure folks that should be on the rolls are able to be there. A much more difficult task in a lot of ways. 

And a point about abundance of voting stations... that's a thing. A local clerk can cover only oh so many polling places. Sometimes they have to travel all polling day between multiple places. Some places are lucky and their clerk stays in one building. There's only oh so many tec support folks to go around an area or county too. And there's often a lack of help- more hands to help means the potential to have more polling stations. Also funds- while a majority of voting items like machines and ballot paper/printing often is at least somewhat covered by state or county coffers.... most often the local clerks and those boards have to pay for a lot. Their share of machines and paper, ect.. and also if there's a budget to pay workers, or have food brought in to feed them. And while voting day might be paid for, often training hours are not. And training hours are mandatory. 

 

 

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Michelle
16 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Voter Id yes - but must be easily obtainable or a state election ID available at no cost;

Abundance of voting stations in all community areas

The states that have started requiring proper ID have made them free and offered free transportation.

I hear about lack of voting stations but have not witnessed it and not personally heard anyone complain about it. Often cabs and buses are offered for anyone with no transportation.

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ChrLzs
2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Voter ID is the only solution and both parties seem not to want it and the Democrats more so.

I have no real objection to requiring ID - some US states do it already, and you generally can't get on electoral rolls without ID - those rolls are the main way of checking/auditing.  If someone illegally uses someone else's ID, or no ID at all and votes, bear in mind that their name gets crossed off, and that is only one potential fraudulent vote - there is no way that I can see of using it on a large scale to change a result. 

Can you point to any studies or evidence that it has ever been a problem?  The authors of the only ever study that seems to suggest a problem (and was cited by Trump) have admitted their numbers were not properly collected, and they have rebuked Trump for using their study to suggest fraud in 2016...  So as far as I am aware this issue has not caused a real problem in the past.

But if ID is required, it needs to be done fairly - many people do not have driver's licenses, and some folks may not have photo ID, but still be legally in the US..

It does seem to be solving a problem that doesn't exist..

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ChrLzs
1 hour ago, Michelle said:

With technology advancing so quickly now I wouldn't be opposed to a thumb print.

I have real problems with anything that puts electronic counting and possibly an FBI-like offenders population database into the mix, and this sort of thing does tend to be associated with automation and then we get the claims about flipping switches to just change votes...

I think the old-fashioned methods are best - paper trails are Happy Trails. :) 

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ChrLzs
1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

Voter Id yes - but must be easily obtainable or a state election ID available at no cost;

Abundance of voting stations in all community areas

common rules across states for handling absent / mail in voting - in fact common rules across the states for all aspects of the election.

political and impartial independent observers to be allowed at the voting stations and the count

All grievances about laws or rules pertaining to elections to be brought before the election ensues - so as to not disenfranchise voters who followed the rules

All votes including mail in and overseas to be date stamped no later than election day - and counting to be allowed for a defined number of days to allow such votes to be tabulated

Recounts only to be available if counts are within 0.5% - no paid for recounts - maximum of two recounts. 

Applause!  Well thought out post, Raymo.

1 hour ago, rashore said:

I think that something that could be helpful would be to implement a section on voting and the voting process in high schools. More than just basic government. Teach a couple of class rounds on that states voting process, include election inspector/poll worker training courses. And teaching the different things on ballots and how they apply from the local to Federal levels like what the different officials are, and how to read and understand proposition language on ballots. Include another class on how that state is similar and different than other state rules. And how the state and Federal levels work. 

This.  THIS.  I've been astonished to see some folks here at UM haven't the foggiest idea how the counting is done, how they cross check the rolls for audits and recounts, and also how they create and maintain the electoral rolls..  I've been a volunteer voting-day helper at a couple of elections here in Oz, and that experience has given me great trust in the system - the folks that organise and do this stuff do it really really well.. 

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Michelle
12 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

I have no real objection to requiring ID - some US states do it already, and you generally can't get on electoral rolls without ID - those rolls are the main way of checking/auditing.  If someone illegally uses someone else's ID, or no ID at all and votes, bear in mind that their name gets crossed off, and that is only one potential fraudulent vote - there is no way that I can see of using it on a large scale to change a result.

Some states only require you to have an electricity, water or other bill in your name going to the address you claim to live.

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Michelle
21 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

I have real problems with anything that puts electronic counting and possibly an FBI-like offenders population database into the mix, and this sort of thing does tend to be associated with automation and then we get the claims about flipping switches to just change votes...

I think the old-fashioned methods are best - paper trails are Happy Trails. :) 

I have little doubt we won't have much choice about that in the near future.

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Tatetopa

The post office patented a block chain type voter ID system.  We could use that as part of the  system.  

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Gromdor

Voter Id's weren't even an issue this election.

Complaints/accusations were about mail in voting, electronic voting, and the people running the elections manipulating the vote tallies.

The closest to ID complaints were that signatures aren't on the official ballots (due to our policy of being able to vote anonymously) but on the envelopes. 

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Gromdor

One issue that everyone seems to not be able to swallow is that each state can run their elections however they please.  We don't have a nationalized/standardized approach and it really isn't anyone's in say- Texas for examples, business to tell someone in Georgia how to run their election or even dispute it.

Edited by Gromdor
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President-Elect Acidhead
3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

One issue that everyone seems to not be able to swallow is that each state can run their elections however they please.  We don't have a nationalized/standardized approach and it really isn't anyone's in say- Texas for examples, business to tell someone in Georgia how to run their election or even dispute it.

Just curious... 

Who creates election rules in each State?

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Michelle
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Complaints/accusations were about mail in voting

That is a real problem. I know at least ten people who were sent mail in ballots for people that are long dead or moved out of state years ago. Mailing them back required no ID whatsoever.

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Gromdor
8 minutes ago, Michelle said:

That is a real problem. I know at least ten people who were sent mail in ballots for people that are long dead or moved out of state years ago. Mailing them back required no ID whatsoever.

Ballots or application for ballots?  Big (and important) difference.

Everyone and their brother was sent multiple mail in ballot applications here in Iowa.

I got at least five myself.

But as for mail in ballots, I only got one- After I filled in the request form with my voter ID pin.  My tracked ballot was sent to me and I could follow it online like a mailed package till it got back. 

Edited by Gromdor
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Gromdor

One big issue I saw was that the general populace seemed to be pretty ignorant of how the voting process even worked in their state.  It's not supposed to be overly complicated to let the lay men vote quickly and easily but explanations of all the redundancies and fail safes should have quelled a lot of the fears and misconceptions I've seen both here and on Facebook.  

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Michelle
16 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Ballots or application for ballots?  Big (and important) difference.

Actual ballots...I said it was too late for states to adjust to a system they weren't familiar with. Tennessee and Georgia had very strict rules for absentee ballots on request. There were no controls, local elections or trials to ease into it before a presidential election.

Edited by Michelle
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Gromdor
Just now, Michelle said:

Actual ballots...I said it was too late for states to adjust to a system they weren't familiar with. Tennessee and Georgia had very strict rules for absentee ballots on request. There were no controls, local elections or trials to ease into it.

Well you should contact the Feds then because if they were actual ballots you were witness to a crime.

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Michelle
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Well you should contact the Feds then because if they were actual ballots you were witness to a crime.

They have been reported to the authorities by the people who received them. We've already seen how those are treated..."what's one here or there"?

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Michelle said:

They have been reported to the authorities by the people who received them. We've already seen how those are treated..."what's one here or there"?

Tennessee is pretty terrible at elections then.  Trumps team should have had a pretty easy time winning in court to throw away the election results there if what you say is true.

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Michelle

It's not Tennessee it's the federal government.

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