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OverSword

Lab Leak Conspiracy is Becoming Mainstream?

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OverSword

I got a little lost right at the end when he starts talking about a new anti-terror bill

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Desertrat56

Why do you have a question mark in your title?

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OverSword
4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why do you have a question mark in your title?

Because I don't notice this becoming mainstream.  Suggest it here in the covid section and I guarantee there will be an attempt to shame you for daring to question.

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Because I don't notice this becoming mainstream.  Suggest it here in the covid section and I guarantee there will be an attempt to shame you for daring to question.

When you use a statement "Lab Leak Conspiracy is becoming Mainstream" and then follow it with a question mark that implies a lie.   Instead if you want to question it, frame it as a question, not a statement.   It annoys me because Fox news does this all the time when they want people to believe a story that is not true.

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OverSword
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

When you use a statement "Lab Leak Conspiracy is becoming Mainstream" and then follow it with a question mark that implies a lie.   Instead if you want to question it, frame it as a question, not a statement.   It annoys me because Fox news does this all the time when they want people to believe a story that is not true.

Did you watch the video?  Here is the thing, I don't watch a ton of news but from what I've seen the lab leak theory is not getting a lot of mainstream attention.  Then again they seem to be looking at it scientifically and stating that the other explanations are slowly being marked off due to lack of actual evidence and the lab leak hypothesis is seeming more reasonable.

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Did you watch the video?  Here is the thing, I don't watch a ton of news but from what I've seen the lab leak theory is not getting a lot of mainstream attention.  Then again they seem to be looking at it scientifically and stating that the other explanations are slowly being marked off due to lack of actual evidence and the lab leak hypothesis is seeming more reasonable.

I did watch the video.  I don't watch much news either so I have no clue whether the lab leak idea is mainstream or not.   I do know that by the time the bat story was released the virus was rampant in Italy and people in the U.S. had it before the time of the Wuhan storyline was given.  I remember early on discussions about the lab in Wuhan and the possibility that the virus leaked from there, but it was squashed with the story that they tracked it to a market and it came from bats.   The fact that Trump kept calling it the "China Virus" is suspicious to me and makes me think something else happened and the west is trying to blame China for something that happened somewhere else.   I am suspicious by nature but I am also suspicious and cynical about most conspiracy theories.  Not that I don't believe in them but that when one comes out and is spread thoroughly around it is probably to hide a real conspiracy or coverup.

 

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OverSword
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I did watch the video.  I don't watch much news either so I have no clue whether the lab leak idea is mainstream or not.   I do know that by the time the bat story was released the virus was rampant in Italy and people in the U.S. had it before the time of the Wuhan storyline was given.  I remember early on discussions about the lab in Wuhan and the possibility that the virus leaked from there, but it was squashed with the story that they tracked it to a market and it came from bats.   The fact that Trump kept calling it the "China Virus" is suspicious to me and makes me think something else happened and the west is trying to blame China for something that happened somewhere else.   I am suspicious by nature but I am also suspicious and cynical about most conspiracy theories.  Not that I don't believe in them but that when one comes out and is spread thoroughly around it is probably to hide a real conspiracy.

 

So you watched as they explained that as time has passed the dots line up more and more with the escaped from lab theory.  The Wet market theory has totally disappeared.  January 15th, 2020 was the first verified case in the US just a few miles from where I sit now.

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So you watched as they explained that as time has passed the dots line up more and more with the escaped from lab theory.  The Wet market theory has totally disappeared.  January 15th, 2020 was the first verified case in the US just a few miles from where I sit now.

It was the first verified case, verified at the time but there were plenty of cases in November, just some mysterious virus at that time that now the doctors who treated patients for pneumonia consider fitting the description of that virus.  And that only because nothing they tested for was positive.  In order for Italy to go down so fast in January and February that virus had to be running rampant for months unacknowledged.   We have been lied to about where the virus originated and when it arrived in the U.S. and other countries.   It is the only thing that is obvious about any of it.

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OverSword
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

It was the first verified case, verified at the time but there were plenty of cases in November, just some mysterious virus at that time that now the doctors who treated patients for pneumonia consider fitting the description of that virus.  And that only because nothing they tested for was positive.  In order for Italy to go down so fast in January and February that virus had to be running rampant for months unacknowledged.   We have been lied to about where the virus originated and when it arrived in the U.S. and other countries.   It is the only thing that is obvious about any of it.

Funny how the bat expert biologist doesn't seem to think so

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Funny how the bat expert biologist doesn't seem to think so

Maybe the location was Wuhan but the timeline is wrong.   AND why would the chinese leak the virus on their own people first????

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OverSword
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe the location was Wuhan but the timeline is wrong.   AND why would the chinese leak the virus on their own people first????

A leak would be an accident.  We already know that's where SARS came from twice and that the Chinese are lax about protocols whether for safety or quality in general. 

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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, OverSword said:

A leak would be an accident.  We already know that's where SARS came from twice and that the Chinese are lax about protocols whether for safety or quality in general. 

But do we know the Chinese are lax about protocols or are we subject to propaganda like the North Koreans?   How do we verify any of this without actually being there or knowing someone who is or was?  The biggest problem I have with all of it is that we are supposed to blame the Chinese and at the same time it is obvious we are being lied to about other things concerning this specific virus.  

There is one good thing that has come out of the whole thing and that is some products that we used to depend on the Chinese for are now being manufactured in the U.S. again.  I don't think any country should be so dependent on some other country overseas for necessities like medical supplies no matter how global we become, there should always be local resources for necessities.  And that is a failing of capitalism, not government.

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OverSword

@Desertrat56 Do you remember all the safety issues with children's toys, Beds shipped here with bedbugs included, paint containing led that was supposed to be led free?  They have a track record as a society in general in which we should question anything and everything.  Now perhaps explain why they are so reluctant to allow the WHO full access to these labs https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-who-rebukes-china-for-blocking-investigator-entry/a-56131087

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

@Desertrat56 Do you remember all the safety issues with children's toys, Beds shipped here with bedbugs included, paint containing led that was supposed to be led free?  They have a track record as a society in general in which we should question anything and everything.  Now perhaps explain why they are so reluctant to allow the WHO full access to these labs https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-who-rebukes-china-for-blocking-investigator-entry/a-56131087

Yes, I remember and I agree that they tend to have bad practices in manufacturing yet most of the manufacturing that used to be in the U.S. was sent to China in order for corporations to save money.  They don't care about the conditions of the workers or the problems with the products as long as they get their bottom line.   So, one of the reasons I don't buy anything but books from Amazon is that they don't tell you where the products you buy are coming from.   We have a much stronger vote by how we spend our money than we do at the polls as long as lobbyists and corporations can buy politicians.   That may or may not be a different subject.  Sometimes the lines blur because when you start following the money you find things that are related that shouldn't be.

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OverSword
7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, I remember and I agree that they tend to have bad practices in manufacturing yet most of the manufacturing that used to be in the U.S. was sent to China in order for corporations to save money.  They don't care about the conditions of the workers or the problems with the products as long as they get their bottom line.   So, one of the reasons I don't buy anything but books from Amazon is that they don't tell you where the products you buy are coming from.   We have a much stronger vote by how we spend our money than we do at the polls as long as lobbyists and corporations can buy politicians.   That may or may not be a different subject.  Sometimes the lines blur because when you start following the money you find things that are related that shouldn't be.

I just don't trust China at face value ever.  Seems like a good idea.  Would you want us to import food from them?  

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I just don't trust China at face value ever.  Seems like a good idea.  Would you want us to import food from them?  

We do import food from them!  And that is why if you don't trust them, do your due diligence and make sure you are buying local or at least American made.   Me, I don't trust any government or corporation, but as far as humans, I think the Chinese have it a lot worse than we do but are as trustworthy as individuals as we are.  So what is it you don't trust all of China or just their products?   

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OverSword
9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

but are as trustworthy as individuals

It's not individuals that I don't trust. 

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Desertrat56
8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It's not individuals that I don't trust. 

OK, who actually imports the products from China and sells them to us?   Do you think they might have some culpability?   

 

  

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Setton
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Funny how the bat expert biologist doesn't seem to think so

Ah, but what do the frog experts think?

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Hugh Mungus
15 minutes ago, Setton said:

Ah, but what do the frog experts think?

Are you an expert expert who knows everyone's expertise and can decide if they are expert enough to be an expert?

 

Because I doubt your expertise to decide who is an expert.

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OverSword
1 hour ago, Setton said:

Ah, but what do the frog experts think?

She concurs.  Little by little other origins are being eliminated while the conspiracy theory is not.  What would a scientist make of that?  And as long as China denies the WHO access to the four facilities in Wuhan which have modified covid sars samples we will not know for certain.

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Scholar4Truth

Isn't the Who suppose to be launching an investigation into this? I read that recently.

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Setton
1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Are you an expert expert who knows everyone's expertise and can decide if they are expert enough to be an expert?

Well, yes. I think we're all expert enough to know that someone who's only ever researched frog evolution isn't qualified to theorise about the origins of a virus.

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Setton
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

She concurs.  Little by little other origins are being eliminated while the conspiracy theory is not.  What would a scientist make of that?

Are they though? Or has the frog lady just told you they are to revive her flagging career?

How do they account for the lack of optimisation in the RBD sequence for binding to human ACE2?

Or the addition of O-linked glycans to S673, T678 and S686 being unique to COVID-19 rather than similar to base viruses suitable for modification?

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OverSword
1 hour ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Isn't the Who suppose to be launching an investigation into this? I read that recently.

Hard to do when China won't give you full access to the sites in question, eh?

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