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jmccr8

Are all gods aliens?

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quillius
22 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I'll give you a hint:

They didn't

:)

I guess what I am really unsure about is whether Mr W really believes this happened. 

my money, to be frank, would be on he knows exactly what he is saying and the total fantasy or exaggerations are put forth on purpose for entertainment.

The reason I lean towards him knowing what he is saying are little snippets such as :

Quote

I thought we were safe and was playing a game of Age of empires   on my laptop using battery power

ie he states the name of game he was playing, an irrelevant piece of information that is only added to try and make things more believable. Then the ending of 'using battery power' ......this is an attempt to try and second guess the angles of questioning and trying to cover the obvious hole the story would leave if he didn't clarify he was using battery power. 

This is quite common, whilst attempting to convey a 'true' story the small details added actually have an opposite effect to those intended and expose many things.

but hey what do I know.....that's just the way I see this. Maybe Mr W is a real life 'Forest Gump'......who would have believed his stories, right? :)

Edited by quillius
ps: I am not saying he wasnt unfortunate enough to lose his house...but I am doubting the chain of events and fantastical elements
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Nuclear Wessel
39 minutes ago, quillius said:

:)

I guess what I am really unsure about is whether Mr W really believes this happened. 

my money, to be frank, would be on he knows exactly what he is saying and the total fantasy or exaggerations are put forth on purpose for entertainment.

The reason I lean towards him knowing what he is saying are little snippets such as :

ie he states the name of game he was playing, an irrelevant piece of information that is only added to try and make things more believable. Then the ending of 'using battery power' ......this is an attempt to try and second guess the angles of questioning and trying to cover the obvious hole the story would leave if he didn't clarify he was using battery power. 

This is quite common, whilst attempting to convey a 'true' story the small details added actually have an opposite effect to those intended and expose many things.

but hey what do I know.....that's just the way I see this. Maybe Mr W is a real life 'Forest Gump'......who would have believed his stories, right? :)

What got me was:

Quote

 We were a few minutes up the road when the mayor of port Lincoln, who was on the radio said, "Some poor b*****s house has just blown up"  (we heard this on the car radio while driving slowly through  spot fires and heavy smoke.

Lmao, what ridiculousness. Seriously made me cringe. Straight out of an episode of The Whimsical Life of Walker.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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quillius
1 minute ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

What got me was:

Lmao, what ridiculousness

as mentioned- little details :)

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Nuclear Wessel
1 minute ago, quillius said:

as mentioned- little details :)

:yes:

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Jon the frog
On 1/20/2021 at 8:56 AM, jmccr8 said:

This keeps coming up now and then so lets see where it goes.

The standard construct is that gods are created in the likeness of men which is understandable to see that they are murderous, callous, selfish, jealous blood thirsty beings of abnormal abilities

https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_1_OVERVIEW/Attributes_of_God.htm#:~:text=In Western (Christian) thought%2C,anything%2C and is perfectly good.

The belief system of the religions of the West holds for monotheism and most are theists as opposed to being pantheists. The attributes of the god of the Western religions are impressive.  There is a problem when considering the entire set of attributes.  There are questions concerning the meaning of some of the features of the deity and definitely problems with a being possessing so many traits at the same time.   Over time the concept of the deity developed by the Israelites, the ONE GOD, has evolved and has taken in the influences of the Zoroastrians in Mesopotamia and then the Greeks and Romans in Europe.   The Greek Philosophers worked with the idea of perfection and the single source of all things as being all perfect and all good. This concept was not associated with the deity of the Hebrews at the time of Moses.  The god or deity of the Jews and then of the Christian and Islamic peoples came to have these characteristics associated with it as every quality thought to be good would need to be in the All Good being to an infinite degree:

Supreme Being

All Just

Eternal Being

All Loving

All Perfect

All Merciful

Beneficent Being- All good

All Kind

All Powerful- Omnipotent

All Charitable

All Knowing- Omniscient

All Forgiving

All Good

All Understanding

All Present- Omnipresent

All Sympathetic

In other words if it is good thing, then the one god of the West was thought to have that feature and to have it to an infinite degree!

PROBLEM: Well the story of the one deity of the Hebrews became inconsistent with a being that was all good and all loving .  Consider these stories of the single deity of the Hebrews and the Atrocities associated with acts of that deity or supported by that deity. http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html 

I am using this definition as a standard for discussion purposes

Now if these ancient construct were actually aliens what purpose did they serve and as one member here describes them as powerful alien entities why did they even bother with us as it has been inferred that they have been with us for hundreds of thousands of years and left us freezing our a$$e$ in cold dark caves until we stared seemingly without anyones help creating civilizations then they want us to give them offerings of the best of the crops and herds, children and virgins not to mention ferocious captured warriors all over the world from unrelated cultures and times so that they can teach us to kill each other in their name rape plunder and pillage. So what do they really get out of this deal and what's in it for us?

Interestingly enough in one religion Moses is told to take all the slaves out of Egypt and wander the desert to reach the land of milk and honey unfortunately the slave smelted enough gold to create a lifesize golden calf(did they steal the gold I can't imagine slaves would have that much gold on hand) and for this they must wander until the last offender passes before their children can pass into the promised land. And yet when they get there it's just a blood bath of stealing raping and plundering  the people that they are displacing so I am not really seeing a benevolent race of aliens here

jmccr8

Alien(noun: a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living.

Yep probably they are ! 

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eight bits
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

But i was a  school teacher and i did tell some stories to kids at the church.

Getting warmer ... now, about those camping trips ...

But seriously,

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I suspect you wouldn't accept similar evidence about Christ's life, but  because it confirms a bias, you happily accept it about me

An eyewitness account of Jesus's teaching the Sanhedrin, plus a statement from the rabbi who officiated at Jesus's wedding? That would be awesome.

But back to the matter at hand:

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Who says ? (apart from  that wedding report)  If id been a pathfinder leader i would have been involved with activities for kids on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons.  I would have had the uniform, badges etc (it was like scouts)   I had none of those.  

I wasn't (or at least have absolutely no memory of doing so ),involved in any activities . I taught kids marked work and prepared lessons  for   long hours all week, and was just married.

i had better things to do with Friday nights and Saturday  afternoons.

 

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Nuclear Wessel
3 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Getting warmer ... now, about those camping trips ...

But seriously,

An eyewitness account of Jesus's teaching the Sanhedrin, plus a statement from the rabbi who officiated at Jesus's wedding? That would be awesome.

But back to the matter at hand:

 

Moving The Goal Posts? | Doctor Bob Posner

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Liquid Gardens
6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Those who live with gods can observe them and analyse their nature, behaviours, motivations etc

Which is equivalent to saying the exact same thing about those who live with cyclops, oh Patron Saint of Tautologies.

6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

And we can do the same with/for dragons even though they  dont exist)  I bet you KNOW enough about a dragon to identify one in a movie .

Usually, but dragons aren't typically as complicated as gods, as we can see since gods merited its own thread here. But sometimes dragons talk (Smaug) and sometimes they don't (Drogon, Rhaegal, Viserion).  And actually in the epic film Excalibur you can't immediately identify 'the dragon'; it is essentially 'the world', even though 'the dragon's breath' can be summoned by powerful enough wizards as fog.  I bet even you know enough to be able to tell the difference between Zeus and a Klingon.

6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Language is complex and i think it is you who doesn't get the many uses and meanings of alien

If you think the common question 'do aliens exist?' is potentially asking, 'do dogs exist?' or 'do gods exist?' or 'do people from foreign countries exist?', I fully agree that language is too complex for you.  

You've said many times that you believe in an alien god I'm pretty sure.  All you ever meant by that is that it was not human, like a dog or a cockroach?  And you don't know that when you say the word 'alien' in this context, people are going to assume you are referring to a member of a species that is from somewhere else in our universe other than earth, as opposed to a usually singular powerful being who dwells in some other 'universe'/realm?  Apparently some strange things happened to the English language when it was imported to Australia (although none of the other Aussies here seem to have the struggles with it as you do).

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Hammerclaw
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Yea all real things, but even the strange things human minds conjure up,  and the sometimes weird workings of our minds,   have a natural /scientific explanation.

It might seem like magic or  supernatural but it is not. 

Psychosis and delusion?

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Was that YOU i saw in the bar.  I thought you looked familiar :) 

Ps  Also been there done that but its a different category of experience. ie imagination or dreaming   

Ps how did you  keep warm?  More particularly how did SHE keep warm, while wearing nothing but that diaphanous, form hugging gown ? :)  

What would you say, 34 inch or 36?  

Oh, no, it was absolutely 100 percent real. Her hair was the scent of lilacs and I distinctly felt the impression of a pair of 38 Double Ds against my manly biceps and barrel chest. :rofl:

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third_eye

 

28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Psychosis and delusion?

Hint... 

BOTH 

~

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eight bits
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I've never held a position in the church and declined them all because  i said it would be hypocritica,l given tha t i was an evolutionist not a creationist 

Well, you know me, a sucker for comparative religion trivia. Is it possible to be an "evolutionist" and an Adventist without hypocrisy?

Everybody knows that Adventism opposes evolution by natural selection. Some are surprised to learn that Adventists typically vehemently oppose "theistic evolution" (or evolution with God having done the selecting), too. In brief compass, the problem is that the mechanism would propose that death existed in the world before sin did, and that God would have directly imposed suffering on the innocent.

However, is it really the case that evolution per se is unAdventist? Are natural selection and theistic the only kinds of evolution possible within an observant Adventist's world view?

Actually, no. Rich Hannon, who writes at the online Adventist site Spectrum, shows no concern about being hypocritical in his Adevntism. In 2019, Hanson wrote this about anti-evolution argumentation:

Quote

So, how do I think Adventist apologists should not proceed as they make their case? They should:...  not substitute the Adventist biblical understanding as God’s infallible message; not unnecessarily conflate evolution with Theistic Evolution when that isn’t the only option; and not characterize those who question Adventist positions, as reprobates.

Now, non-Adventists might be a little surprised at what counts as an "option" for a kind of evollution:

Quote

But is it necessary to make God the active driver of evolution, the one who has chosen death and suffering as creation’s mechanism? Not at all. It is only necessary to assign God the role of allowing it to occur this way, if it did, ... And many Christians already take this approach on ... the Problem of Evil...

So one merely needs to propose even one plausible alternative where God has not chosen this path, but instead only allowed it. And one component of a believable story could be to introduce the possibility of Satan’s involvement in Earth’s history, with the presumption of his downfall far earlier than Eden, the exile of the fallen angels to this planet, with their collective intelligence and a lot of time on their hands.

Plausibility is in the eye of the beholder, obviously, but the point is - Yes, it is possible to be an "evolutionist" and an Adventist. No hypocrisy.

https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2019/how-not-argue-against-evolution

@Mr Walker

In the quoted matter above from you, you seem to acknowledge that you were offered church positions, plural. After the first one, when you had explained to the church leaders that you were an evolutionist, it would seem that they were OK enough with that to offer you a position again. And, as Hannon's article shows, whatever their personal views may have been, they wouldn't have been "hypocritical" or unAdventist to have offered you another position.

Nor, Mr Walker, would you have been hypocitical to have accepted, just as you had found it in your heart to tell children stories in church and hey - busy as you were, you were going camping anyway. Woohoo.

And I'll bet you looked buff in that uniform.

 

Edited by eight bits
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third_eye
23 minutes ago, eight bits said:

And I'll bet you looked buff in that uniform

I've said it many a times and I will say it again... Irony is a lost art 

~

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papageorge1
6 hours ago, quillius said:

Hi Papa,

I would argue that true science has neither humility nor arrogance. I do not quite understand the notion of 'science with humility' nor do I understand the notion of 'science with arrogance'....at what point in the scientific process/method does humility or arrogance come into play? 

Can you expand on this or show an example of what you mean please.

thanks

I was of course referring to the human attitude in regards to its presentation and importance.

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Hammerclaw
42 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Well, you know me, a sucker for comparative religion trivia. Is it possible to be an "evolutionist" and an Adventist without hypocrisy?

As long as you say "God did it.":yes:

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Sherapy
9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

And yet it is verified that i was reading non picture books and understanding their content while still 3 years old 

You are imposing what you believe about children's development (and might be true for some) onto my own 

Indeed my memories include visualising vivid imaginary beings But the y also include a successful struggle to eliminate  those from  my mind 

My mother had records of the time i was 5 and was beaten up in the play ground (sand pit actually)  for talking about how i lucid dreamed, built my own dream scapes,  and flew, and explored my home, in my dreams. It scared the other children (perhaps understandable to me  now, but then i thought every one could, and did, dream and project their consciousness like this ) 

This was not imagined. it was recorded 

When my mother passed and we cleaned out her home i found the stories i had written and illustrated   for my little brother when  i was about   6

 

 

My point is that your post and follow up post support that 5 to 6 is typically when kids start to grasp the difference between reality and make believe. I think it was awful that you were beat up for it, geez, that had to be traumatic. None the less, it supports what I am pointing out. You thought your thoughts made things happen, such as the story of you shared about your mothers miscarriage. 
 

As an adult you hold onto this idea too, you do not seem to want to distinguish the difference between reality and make believe, it seems to be your “spirituality.” Not an insult, just an observation. 
 

 

 

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lightly

I dunno if Aliens (beings from anywhere other than Earth) have been here , physically, or some other way not understood by us,  and have influenced our development.   Some of the amazing civilizations ,and their accomplishments,  of the past make me wonder.    Even with all of our mechanizations and communications ...we currently seem a bit retarded to me..and on a path of De- Evolution.   I think that is due to our disconnect from the natural world, and it's forces and ways, and being immersed in our own man made pile of boxes ...with all of it's ,more or less, meaningless distractions and excesses.

   I dunno about 'god' either.     To me, God is simply. ...EVERYTHING.      

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Hammerclaw

Just chill, everybody and use your IMAGINATION.

 

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Sherapy
7 hours ago, eight bits said:

Let's not get confused here. You didn't tell the committee, therefore you wouldn't, but your question was what somebody else would do in your place.Your question was posed to another member, and I did jump in. However, the situation was just so familiar to me from the historical-mythical Jesus controversy:

An intrepid scholar ( @Nuclear Wessel ) discovers a new manuscript with the earliest extant version of an important sacred story (The Miracle of the Flames). And as so often happens, this early version is different from the later more familiar versions. In this case, an important element is missing, The Kitchen Radio from Heaven.

Thus, the question arises: why is the missing element not there? Could it have been a later embellishment of the original story? In the Bible Studies trade, the affirmative case for that has a name: argument from silence. Those come up so often, there's an established drill for dealing with them, focused on would we expect to find the element in this version of the story if it were already part of the story? Only if we'd expect to find what's missing would we be justified in thinking the element was a later embellishment.

Well, it is a news report of what the Prophet Walker said, not the Prophet speaking to us directly. Maybe the reporter was so overwhelmed by the miracle which he or she did report (that the Prophet was home for the holidays) that the radio didn't measure up. That could have been quite a debate, but we caught a break: there is independent evidence that the radio really was omitted from the sermon in question.

However, the same source tells us that at about the same time, there was an oral tradition that did have that element. That is, the Prophet had supposedly shared a different version of the event with friends and disciples. This could be, compare the Miracle of the Talking Pillar, where the Prophet similarly told a "sanitized" version of events to those whose ears were not worthy of the truth. But as we learn from HJ-MJ, there's always a convenient oral tradition to bridge any gaps that might open up. It's difficult (for me anyway) to overrule written evidence with unattested oral traditions that leave no trace of themselves.

OK, then. You claim directly that the Prophet wouldn't have shared this incident with unenlightened parliamentarians, lest they think less of him (again, compare the Talking Pillar where it was his parents who would have thought less of him).

And that's where we are. It's perfectly obvious you were arguing to the committeee that you and your wife shouldn't have needed to rely on luck to survive, but that was your predicament. Well, the radio fits that argument hand-in-glove, just the observed and uninterpreted facts of the incident would have served your case perfectly.

So, yes, we would expect the radio miracle to have been included at that time, if the story were available to you back then. It is reasonable for the intrepid scholar to propose, and for other scholars to agree, that The Kitchen Radio from Heaven may well be a later addition to the probably historical Miracle of the Flames.

 

On a neat thing that arose in passing:

That's a projection of what's called suvivors' guilt.

That you can type a sentence like that and not realize what you're saying, and this is not the first time, is why people discount all that talk about how well trained you are in psychology, and how helpful your counseling has been to the generations.

And finally, a less neat thing

You don't seem to realize that going on and on about the minutiae of SDA christology and theology does nothing to defeat the (obvious) conclusion that you're SDA to the marrow of your bones.

Indeed, SDA member pathfinder leader will spin a god saved my life tale, as par for the course. 

MW is not the first or the last one on here who pretends “not to be here” looking for converts, or looking for validation or he was taken in himself.

None the less one shouldn’t put any stock into the tales of MW is the moral of this story. IMHO
 


 


 

 

 

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Sherapy
5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I wouldn't believe you,  but all they could do would be verify the existence of the  article as a genuine source  Not its content .

I have no recollection of having any official position, and neither does my wife. I  never acted in such a capacity, except perhaps to tell a couple of stories to younger kids    

That is what i said originally 

 And the sda is not a cult, but a recognised church. with basic protestant theology. 

The only really radical thing about it is that it  continues   to recognise the seventh day (Saturday ) and so does not  accept the Catholic's authority to change the Sabbath to Sunday.

    It does not recognise the authority of the pope to change the bible , or his claim to have the  authority  of god on earth. Not many protestant churches do, and long wars were waged to distinguish Protestantism from  Catholicism  

All of your views are literal SDA, including your disdain for the Catholics. Lol

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Sherapy
5 hours ago, quillius said:

:)

I guess what I am really unsure about is whether Mr W really believes this happened. 

my money, to be frank, would be on he knows exactly what he is saying and the total fantasy or exaggerations are put forth on purpose for entertainment.

The reason I lean towards him knowing what he is saying are little snippets such as :

ie he states the name of game he was playing, an irrelevant piece of information that is only added to try and make things more believable. Then the ending of 'using battery power' ......this is an attempt to try and second guess the angles of questioning and trying to cover the obvious hole the story would leave if he didn't clarify he was using battery power. 

This is quite common, whilst attempting to convey a 'true' story the small details added actually have an opposite effect to those intended and expose many things.

but hey what do I know.....that's just the way I see this. Maybe Mr W is a real life 'Forest Gump'......who would have believed his stories, right? :)

 My sister who is a pathological liar will continue fabricating tales with the proof right in front of her, one time it got her on a psychiatric court ordered hold too. 

When she was caught on camera stealing an iPhone and then the iPhone was tracked to her house 10 minutes later, her story was she thought it was her phone ( as she had the same one she claimed/ that she never could produce for the officer) she was caught on video at the gas station of going behind the counter in the Gas station into someone else’s purse, she is seen putting the phone in her back pocket. She left in her truck, meantime the iPhone is discovered missing and the girl had the iPhone tracker feature and the gas station had her on video the police showed up to her house shortly after to arrest her.
 

She even raced out and bought the same iPhone later to prove to the court she wasn’t that stupid and she didn’t need the phone as she had her own, none the less she served time for this lie. To this day she claims she was set up. 
 

That she tries to explain or refute the evidence without evidence is the key, they tend to place a lot of weight on their story as opposed to producing any evidence, often going as far as to demean, diminish, and belittle evidence as invalid, their own story takes precedence. 

  A pathological liar is intentionally trying to hide the lies.

 

This is how she makes easy money ( get rich quick schemes appeal to her too, such as gambling etc.) she makes up some story typically, boyfriend is abusive, hitting her, or makes up an illness ( breast cancer and needs treatment) she has gotten a lot of mileage out of pretending to have breast cancer and she needs financial help ASAP, she exploits those who are empathetic. My grandmother, dad  and mother fell prey to her all the time, she was always gonna provide evidence too, but never did. 

She stole 70 thousand dollars this way from my grandmother. Broke into my moms house and robbed her blind every time they went on vacation etc. etc. 

I tend to conclude that those that lie pathologically are making a living some way off this too. Cult leaders do this too, but use god. 

Edited by Sherapy
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jmccr8
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You are not JUST an animal. Your self aware consciousness makes you unique among all earth animals 

Hi Walker

I never said I was just an animal I said that this body can exist without the added ability of thinking(critically) my body is not solely dependent on it to survive

8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I disagree with you about alien presence on earth, but i understand and respect your belief

Thanks I understand to a point yours as well and yes we do disagree

8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Once you've met a few you might change your mind :)

Well to be honest it's not like I have been hiding and have been an outgoing kind of guy but nope not once have I been given evidence that they exist

8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Again, you are correct.

With regards to my life and experiences yes I am thanks

8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You are observing a part of "god" which exists within all of us, but its only a small part of god, just as each of us is only a small part of god Where it gets interesting is where the part of you and the part of god get connected or unified. 

Not sure that you can make that inference as I am more inclined that you are adapting what I am saying to fit into your perspective rather than understanding mine.:D

jmccr8

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jmccr8
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol When i was teaching in Whyalla the kids would sing "welcome back welcome back" when i came into the room/

I also looked a lot like rolf harris so another name was Rolf and finally a lot of them called me poppa smurf 

Ive got photos of me that you would have difficulty telling apart from  him in this one (except that i was abit more handsome and sexy :) ) and i even have some of me wearing  an identical jacket :) 

Ive been in Lincoln all day. Took our younger golden retriever in for a clip and toe nail trim and visited quite a lot of friends and family. Left home a t 8am and got back about 5pm Then got tea and watched an old episode of dr who  

Hi walker

I thought to use it more like the bat signal to summon you.:lol:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
6 hours ago, quillius said:

:)

I guess what I am really unsure about is whether Mr W really believes this happened. 

my money, to be frank, would be on he knows exactly what he is saying and the total fantasy or exaggerations are put forth on purpose for entertainment.

The reason I lean towards him knowing what he is saying are little snippets such as :

ie he states the name of game he was playing, an irrelevant piece of information that is only added to try and make things more believable. Then the ending of 'using battery power' ......this is an attempt to try and second guess the angles of questioning and trying to cover the obvious hole the story would leave if he didn't clarify he was using battery power. 

This is quite common, whilst attempting to convey a 'true' story the small details added actually have an opposite effect to those intended and expose many things.

but hey what do I know.....that's just the way I see this. Maybe Mr W is a real life 'Forest Gump'......who would have believed his stories, right? :)

Hi Quillius

Yes agreed the fire happened and he did lose his house and it was a scary event for him and yes it seems that there is some embellishment just like any storyteller.

I grew up on the prairies in an agricultural setting and have seen prairie fires and once the crops are maturing and have turned from green to gold they move fast and you see everyone running for a tractor hitched to a tiller to create a means of containing it with a fire row. Have seen forest fires in the interior if BC as well where I have seen temps running at 104 degrees and everything is parched.

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
the usual
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Sherapy
26 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Quillius

Yes agreed the fire happened and he did lose his house and it was a scary event for him and yes it seems that there is some embellishment just like any storyteller.

I grew up on the prairies in an agricultural setting and have seen prairie fires and once the crops are maturing and have turned from green to gold they move fast and you see everyone running for a tractor hitched to a tiller to create a means of containing it with a fire row. Have seen forest fires in the interior if BC as well where I have seen temps running at 104% and everything is parched.

jmccr8

I am relieved for Mrs. Walker miles from help that Mr. Walker happened to be home on holiday with the car to drive her to safety and the car radio worked. 
 

 


 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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