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jmccr8

Are all gods aliens?

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papageorge1
9 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

just a query.

In your mind, is the Abrahamic  god a human being, then? 

Er....certainly not. An alien to me implies other planetary. The Abrahamic God is beyond that.

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jmccr8
32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I dont accept that a god (either an artificial thought construct or a real being)  has to have such attributes. 

Did Thor have them all?

Did Anubis have them all? 

Did gods of water fire earth etc have them all ?

Poseidon Artemis Demeter.?

Venus Apollo Mercury ?

The Chinese, alone, have hundreds of gods  Some, but by no means all, fit some of the attributes you gave 

Look at the meso american gods  or the Polynesian gods, or the  gods of the African continent 

I guess you did not click on the link to read but none of the gods you have listed needed to have all the qualities described but all the gods that you have given were noted to have abilities like flying creation or control of elements and all the gods you listed are not and never were real as they were constructs.

It does not matter how many illusions you reference you alien has not of those qualities as an individual without tech which means they are another type of human that men will make gods out of for no apparent reason other than not exercising scientific method or critical thinking.

 Do you now understand that I will not chase these discussion unless they are relevant to the thread and that I am not concerned about facing you straight up with no barriers.

jmccr8

 

 

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Mr Walker
10 hours ago, eight bits said:

Great idea for a thread, Jay. Why didn't you think of something like this before :P ?

One thing about that list of divine attributes - all the currently popular ones have literary antecedents.

For example, talking pillars of light. Could there have been some literary antecedent, something that its chief prophet might have encountered during adolesence, say?

For example 1967.

 

This may have some relevance to our inquiries.

@Liquid Gardens

Great minds work in parallel.

I've said tha t when i first saw the pillar of light my first thought was " transmat beam" . 

Having watched star trek a lot I was hoping/ fearing i would be offered a ride in it  :)

 We all comprehend encounters through  the filters of our experiences and our general and scientific knowledge. 

Star trek was the basis for many of my values  and attitudes  My father, younger brother, and I, sat down and watched it every Wed night about 8 or 8.30pm  and then  talked about the philosophies and values being espoused 

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Nuclear Wessel
45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You may not have evidence, but you cant say that "we "do not have evidences :) 

Pretty sure I just did old timer.

Prove me wrong if you can. Your anecdotes of your ET sheila with three titties doesn't count btw. 

Quote

IMO a real god is an evolved sentient being. 

You're allowed an opinion.

Quote

 

To qualify as a god, it must; 

Have powers we consider god like eg being able to raise the dead would be a good example :) 

Have an interest in or connection with those to whom it is a god 

ie there may be many "god- like" beings in the galaxy who are not interested in us and thus are not our gods  Our gods might have "gods" of there own eg even more advanced beings.  wemay wellbecome gods to other animals as the y evolve the self  aware consciousness and language to formulate the conception of a god.

  "god" is like "dog"

  ie It is just a label (English speaking) humans   use to describe a certain classification of being 

 

That's your opinion.

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Mr Walker
5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I guess you did not click on the link to read but none of the gods you have listed needed to have all the qualities described but all the gods that you have given were noted to have abilities like flying creation or control of elements and all the gods you listed are not and never were real as they were constructs.

It does not matter how many illusions you reference you alien has not of those qualities as an individual without tech which means they are another type of human that men will make gods out of for no apparent reason other than not exercising scientific method or critical thinking.

 Do you now understand that I will not chase these discussion unless they are relevant to the thread and that I am not concerned about facing you straight up with no barriers.

jmccr8

 

 

How do you know they were not real, and were not the  perceptions  of the people who encountered them  Nad yep tobe a god a being must have "godlike"  powers

My entity qualifies on tha t ground given its relationship with me and my knowledge understanding of it,  combined with its DEMONSTRATED abilities.

  Nup i dont get  where you are going or why .

You may have a concept of what a god is.

I am not obliged to agree with that, given the thousands of god types in human history.

You've never actually outlined your own beliefs or lack of beliefs or how you see a god as being, IF it is real and physical

 

There is no way to tell if an abilty is tech based or a naturla ability 

eg if a being has implants connected via wifi to remote controlled devices which allow language  translation, manipulation of matter,  mental telepathy, and control over the state of energy/ matter,  then how do you tell, by observation,  if this is a tech based abilty or a genetically  evolved one ?   

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jmccr8
40 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

IMO a real god is an evolved sentient being. 

Hi Walker

You have given so many contradictory descriptions of your alien including ancient alien holograph which means you have not defined what it is and therefore cannot describe it because you do not know what it is and it has not told you either or there would be no confusion in your descriptions.

45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Have powers we consider god like eg being able to raise the dead would be a good example :)

And yet your came to the hospital to tell you what you already knew you were in bad physical shape and killing yourself, why not heal you if it could stop you from smoking with no effort?

47 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

e there may be many "god- like" beings in the galaxy who are not interested in us and thus are not our gods  Our gods might have "gods" of there own eg even more advanced beings.  wemay wellbecome gods to other animals as the y evolve the self  aware consciousness and language to formulate the conception of a god.

And the plot thickens:rolleyes:

Show us the money honey you can't spend what you don't have and you do not have evidence of the scientific method sort.

50 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

ie It is just a label (English speaking) humans   use to describe a certain classification of being 

Yes they are descriptors of something specific that have identifying qualities.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
44 minutes ago, godnodog said:

true, but we can infer their existence by using our existence as evidence/hint.

is there life in the universe? answer is 100% yes  and easely proven

Hi godnodog

Yes but can you prove that they have been here or had any influence in our development?

jmccr8

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jmccr8
41 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Aliens are nonhumans, thus gods of any type, other than human beings, are, by defintion, alien 

Hi Walker

People from different countries are called aliens as well and human so I am not seeing that a biological being from another planet as any different and would call the humanoid or like us and when you can prove that they are not like us I will consider your term.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Pretty sure I just did old timer.

Prove me wrong if you can. Your anecdotes of your ET sheila with three titties doesn't count btw. 

You're allowed an opinion.

That's your opinion.

Nup While you can physically say it, it is inaccurate and poor grammar .

Nup you prove me wrong :)  

that example was a dream construct showing my abilty to create, by design, any entity within a dream and control it's behaviour 

 However, yep i have observed multiple alien species.  Prove me wrong 

well its my opinion because  I  don't know.

It maybe an artificial intelligence controlling  events via prior programming  I dont have enough knowledge to be able to ascertain this 

One thing i can be certain of, is that no real physical thing exists, without a context of either evolution or creation (as with  motor cars artificial intelligence etc)  

yep its my opinion about what constitutes a god  

Give me a better one that can be applied to real beings and imaginary constructs.

  The label bit is not opinion it is simple fact Thats what humans do.

We apply labels to individuals or groups so we can communicate intelligently about them  (imagine having to describe a dragon every time you  wanted to talk about one. 

Those individuals or groups can be real or imaginary.  

 

 

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Nuclear Wessel
Just now, Mr Walker said:

Nup While you can physically say it, it is inaccurate and poor grammar .

Nup you prove me wrong :)  

that example was a dream construct showing my abilty to create, by design, any entity within a dream and control it's behaviour 

 However, yep i have observed multiple alien species.  Prove me wrong 

well its my opinion because  I  don't know.

It maybe an artificial intelligence controlling  events via prior programming  I dont have enough knowledge to be able to ascertain this 

One thing i can be certain of, is that no real physical thing exists, without a context of either evolution or creation (as with  motor cars artificial intelligence etc)  

yep its my opinion about what constitutes a god  

Give me a better one that can be applied to real beings and imaginary constructs.

  The label bit is not opinion it is simple fact Thats what humans do.

We apply labels to individuals or groups so we can communicate intelligently about them  (imagine having to describe a dragon every time you  wanted to talk about one. 

Those individuals or groups can be real or imaginary.  

 

 

You've got nothing, as I suspected.

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jmccr8
46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

god may help to educate us, but not intervene on a species level.

Hi Walker

Most religious mythology shows that gods do intervene and play with humans with no regard for human life or with their living conditions.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

You have given so many contradictory descriptions of your alien including ancient alien holograph which means you have not defined what it is and therefore cannot describe it because you do not know what it is and it has not told you either or there would be no confusion in your descriptions.

And yet your came to the hospital to tell you what you already knew you were in bad physical shape and killing yourself, why not heal you if it could stop you from smoking with no effort?

And the plot thickens:rolleyes:

Show us the money honey you can't spend what you don't have and you do not have evidence of the scientific method sort.

Yes they are descriptors of something specific that have identifying qualities.

jmccr8

rather, if it was NOT real, it could be described more consistently and accurately.

Youve mixed up events decades apart 

It DID heal me /prevent me from  smoking and removed the addiction

It came to hospital to assure me tha t i would be ok. I wasn't killing myself I lived a healthy life  on a farm with lots of physical activities every day  but i had inherited a bad heart from my parents 

  It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire  

"God" is everywhere and in us /all around us  (a bit like the internet)  Thus it can appear as anything, and at any time.

It adapts its manifestation  to the purpose of its visit,  and sometimes as protective camouflage Eg in a crowd it might appear as a human being.

In the bush it might be a tree or an animal. It can just be voice, a touch, or a physical being  It can warn you, teach you, empower you, and it can physically protect you,  or give you the abilty to protect yourself   

 

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Mr Walker
7 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

You've got nothing, as I suspected.

Prove it :) 

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Mr Walker
18 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Most religious mythology shows that gods do intervene and play with humans with no regard for human life or with their living conditions.

jmccr8

I disagree.  While there are many god forms, most interact with humans in a symbiotic relationship of give and take.  The bible for example teaches us healthy ways to live, and behave in a community.

(it is a bit out of date now, but most of the basic lessons still apply) In most religions gods have the power, but humans can negotiate with them .

Oh sorry, i missed the connection.

I was talking about real gods with real powers Imaginary ones can do anything  humans want them to but real ones are constrained by practicalities 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Nuclear Wessel
13 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

  It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire     

Why wasn't this warning mentioned in the interview you gave?

image.thumb.png.2d515e226e85261a8f8b232dc2b489ea.png

Or was this a case of incorrect reporting similar to the SDA article mentioning your position as a pathfinder?

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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Guyver
6 hours ago, Essan said:

Originally, all gods were anthropomorphisms of nature

Later they came to mean and be different things to different people according to need.

If people today see gods as aliens it's because they have a need to believe that alien gods exist.   It does not mean alien gods exist ;) 

I think something else exists without question in my mind.  I just don’t know what it is but I think it’s good.

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Liquid Gardens
59 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Aliens are nonhumans, thus gods of any type, other than human beings, are, by defintion, alien

Using that made-up definition, dogs are aliens.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

No theist actually argues against god being an alien being  (except thoise who argue for it being a human being)

You mean like 2 billion Christians?  That's a bit too big of a chunk to justify starting a sentence with 'no theist' in my view...

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

In my experience "god" is bound by a form of non intervention  code like that posited in star trek 

That is not the god a lot of other people have experienced, which is specifically stated to be entirely unbound.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

This makes me think that god is an agent of a wider form of governance OR it is a code  ":god" has  adopted to allow  species to survive  and evolve without intervention

That's not 'god', that's Gort. 

Gort (The Day the Earth Stood Still) - Wikipedia

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jmccr8
23 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

My entity qualifies on tha t ground given its relationship with me and my knowledge understanding of it,  combined with its DEMONSTRATED abilities.

Hi Walker

That's nice for you but dos not demonstrate that you alien is real just something you talk about.

26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

How do you know they were not real, and were not the  perceptions  of the people who encountered them 

Well if they were real they would still be here and if they were mortal men then they are dead and had nothing significantly unique about them other than the story exaggerated on about them

29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Nup i dont get  where you are going or why .

You may have a concept of what a god is.

Yes I do and it is well known to you and it has nothing to do with glorifying common men or aliens 

31 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I am not obliged to agree with that, given the thousands of god types in human history.

You've never actually outlined your own beliefs or lack of beliefs or how you see a god as being, IF it is real and physical

I am real and I am physical as for my construct of god I see intelligence and the ability to see and realize potential and modify ourselves and environment as god we create so it's not all that complicated

34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There is no way to tell if an abilty is tech based or a naturla ability 

eg if a being has implants connected via wifi to remote controlled devices which allow language  translation, manipulation of matter,  mental telepathy, and control over the state of energy/ matter,  then how do you tell, by observation,  if this is a tech based abilty or a genetically  evolved one ?

Well we have some pretty amazing tech that can identify tech so if your alien wants to come in for a check up it can be determined. It does not change the fact that without tech it is and everyday humdrum human(oid)

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
1 minute ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Why wasn't this warning mentioned in the interview you gave?

image.thumb.png.2d515e226e85261a8f8b232dc2b489ea.png

Or was this a case of incorrect reporting similar to the SDA article mentioning your position as a pathfinder?

Nup thats the facts I didn.t mention the intervention of god to a "parliamentary  commision"  :)  Would you have done ?

But i certainly talked about it with colleagues friends relatives etc.

My point was tha t god should not have needed to warn us.

A system should have been in place to do so  (without gods warning and protection we would have died in the house when it exploded( as a number of my friends and colleagues did) )   

Thankfully my suggestions, along with those of others WERE adopted and put  into place 

We received a radio broadcast  from  a  mains powered radio when the power had been off for several hours and our power lines were lying on the ground melted  God (the cosmic consciousness)  had told me to turn the radio on and listen to the warning which i did even knowing there was no power (its not a good idea to argue with a god :)     It told us that the fire front had changed direction and was burning rapidly towards,  us  about  6 kilometres to the south 

We had about 5 minutes to grab animals and valuables and get out.

By then spot fires and dense smoke were all around us    The house blew up a few minutes after we left it 

God told me we would be safe and unharmed  That allowed me to remain calm and drive very slowly and carefully through the  fire front A number of peole were killed when they  panicked and drove off the road  in dense smoke  My cousin followed gods instructions and survived the fire front burning over him as he lay in a ditch His only injury was a badly burned hand.

He tried to open the car door after the fire had passed, and it melted in his hand, sticking to it, and burning it. 

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Mr Walker
12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Using that made-up definition, dogs are aliens.

You mean like 2 billion Christians?  That's a bit too big of a chunk to justify starting a sentence with 'no theist' in my view...

That is not the god a lot of other people have experienced, which is specifically stated to be entirely unbound.

That's not 'god', that's Gort. 

Gort (The Day the Earth Stood Still) - Wikipedia

Christians generally dont see god as a human being or from  this planet 

 check the definition of alien.

it has many variants, but basically means not of this area or neighbourhood or nation.

 specifically it refers to off earth beings.

so yep you could argue tha t dogs are alien to human beings, or men are alien to women :)   

But when talking about  types of gods the y either originate on earth or off earth if they originate off earth the y are aliens

I appreciate you dont believe in the existence of gods, but how would you  define the christian god (not Christ, but god) human or non human?   

when you  experince a god how do you KNOW if it is unbound or not?

Those   are characteristics we may GIVE to a being but may not apply  

If we construct an imaginary god it can have any qualities if its a real being it will be limited   to qualities which are physically possible.

  In a sense, it's very physicality imposes those limits upon it .

 

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Mr Walker
45 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

People from different countries are called aliens as well and human so I am not seeing that a biological being from another planet as any different and would call the humanoid or like us and when you can prove that they are not like us I will consider your term.

jmccr8

That was included in my explanation  

an alien can be many things but any being originating off world IS an alien by all standard definitions  The y can be just like a human being or completely different but if the y dont come from earth the y are an alien   . 

So, in your mind, where do real gods originate from,  if the y exist. 

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jmccr8
37 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

rather, if it was NOT real, it could be described more consistently and accurately.

Youve mixed up events decades apart 

It DID heal me /prevent me from  smoking and removed the addiction

It came to hospital to assure me tha t i would be ok. I wasn't killing myself I lived a healthy life  on a farm with lots of physical activities every day  but i had inherited a bad heart from my parents 

  It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire  

"God" is everywhere and in us /all around us  (a bit like the internet)  Thus it can appear as anything, and at any time.

It adapts its manifestation  to the purpose of its visit,  and sometimes as protective camouflage Eg in a crowd it might appear as a human being.

In the bush it might be a tree or an animal. It can just be voice, a touch, or a physical being  It can warn you, teach you, empower you, and it can physically protect you,  or give you the abilty to protect yourself   

 

Hi Walker

Years ago I knew a guy that was going through a rough time and he made his hot water rad in his room the god he talked to and this is exactly what I think you have done, either that or you never out grew your imaginary friend from childhood because you claim 60 years of experience with this entity so you were 9-10 years old but you have stated earlier experiences so this just seem like your safe place in life.

jmccr8

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Sherapy
5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Christians generally dont see god as a human being or from  this planet 

 check the definition of alien.

it has many variants, but basically means not of this area or neighbourhood or nation.

 specifically it refers to off earth beings.

so yep you could argue tha t dogs are alien to human beings, or men are alien to women :)   

But when talking about  types of gods the y either originate on earth or off earth if they originate off earth the y are aliens

I appreciate you dont believe in the existence of gods, but how would you  define the christian god (not Christ, but god) human or non human?   

when you  experince a god how do you KNOW if it is unbound or not?

Those   are characteristics we may GIVE to a being but may not apply  

If we construct an imaginary god it can have any qualities if its a real being it will be limited   to qualities which are physically possible.

  In a sense, it's very physicality imposes those limits upon it .

 

A definition is a description, not evidence. 
 

 

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Er....certainly not. An alien to me implies other planetary. The Abrahamic God is beyond that.

ok if its not from  earth then, by definition, it is an alien   I would agree that  it is much beyond that, but it does not originate on earth or in the minds of earthlings :)  

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psyche101

Hi Jay

Maybe it's just my perception, but it strikes me that many seem to think that replacing God did it, with Aliens did it somehow makes more sense. 

 

We can't build the pyramids

Aliens must have done it

We could never fit hard stone

Aliens must have done it

We can't have evolved into intelligent beings alone

Aliens must have done it

The Bible makes no sense, but it simply must be true

...............................

This is an interesting link. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hyperallergic.com/470795/pseudoarchaeology-and-the-racism-behind-ancient-aliens/

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