papageorge1 Posted January 21, 2021 #51 Share Posted January 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: just a query. In your mind, is the Abrahamic god a human being, then? Er....certainly not. An alien to me implies other planetary. The Abrahamic God is beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #52 Share Posted January 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: I dont accept that a god (either an artificial thought construct or a real being) has to have such attributes. Did Thor have them all? Did Anubis have them all? Did gods of water fire earth etc have them all ? Poseidon Artemis Demeter.? Venus Apollo Mercury ? The Chinese, alone, have hundreds of gods Some, but by no means all, fit some of the attributes you gave Look at the meso american gods or the Polynesian gods, or the gods of the African continent I guess you did not click on the link to read but none of the gods you have listed needed to have all the qualities described but all the gods that you have given were noted to have abilities like flying creation or control of elements and all the gods you listed are not and never were real as they were constructs. It does not matter how many illusions you reference you alien has not of those qualities as an individual without tech which means they are another type of human that men will make gods out of for no apparent reason other than not exercising scientific method or critical thinking. Do you now understand that I will not chase these discussion unless they are relevant to the thread and that I am not concerned about facing you straight up with no barriers. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #53 Share Posted January 21, 2021 10 hours ago, eight bits said: Great idea for a thread, Jay. Why didn't you think of something like this before ? One thing about that list of divine attributes - all the currently popular ones have literary antecedents. For example, talking pillars of light. Could there have been some literary antecedent, something that its chief prophet might have encountered during adolesence, say? For example 1967. This may have some relevance to our inquiries. @Liquid Gardens Great minds work in parallel. I've said tha t when i first saw the pillar of light my first thought was " transmat beam" . Having watched star trek a lot I was hoping/ fearing i would be offered a ride in it We all comprehend encounters through the filters of our experiences and our general and scientific knowledge. Star trek was the basis for many of my values and attitudes My father, younger brother, and I, sat down and watched it every Wed night about 8 or 8.30pm and then talked about the philosophies and values being espoused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted January 21, 2021 #54 Share Posted January 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: You may not have evidence, but you cant say that "we "do not have evidences Pretty sure I just did old timer. Prove me wrong if you can. Your anecdotes of your ET sheila with three titties doesn't count btw. Quote IMO a real god is an evolved sentient being. You're allowed an opinion. Quote To qualify as a god, it must; Have powers we consider god like eg being able to raise the dead would be a good example Have an interest in or connection with those to whom it is a god ie there may be many "god- like" beings in the galaxy who are not interested in us and thus are not our gods Our gods might have "gods" of there own eg even more advanced beings. wemay wellbecome gods to other animals as the y evolve the self aware consciousness and language to formulate the conception of a god. "god" is like "dog" ie It is just a label (English speaking) humans use to describe a certain classification of being That's your opinion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #55 Share Posted January 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: I guess you did not click on the link to read but none of the gods you have listed needed to have all the qualities described but all the gods that you have given were noted to have abilities like flying creation or control of elements and all the gods you listed are not and never were real as they were constructs. It does not matter how many illusions you reference you alien has not of those qualities as an individual without tech which means they are another type of human that men will make gods out of for no apparent reason other than not exercising scientific method or critical thinking. Do you now understand that I will not chase these discussion unless they are relevant to the thread and that I am not concerned about facing you straight up with no barriers. jmccr8 How do you know they were not real, and were not the perceptions of the people who encountered them Nad yep tobe a god a being must have "godlike" powers My entity qualifies on tha t ground given its relationship with me and my knowledge understanding of it, combined with its DEMONSTRATED abilities. Nup i dont get where you are going or why . You may have a concept of what a god is. I am not obliged to agree with that, given the thousands of god types in human history. You've never actually outlined your own beliefs or lack of beliefs or how you see a god as being, IF it is real and physical There is no way to tell if an abilty is tech based or a naturla ability eg if a being has implants connected via wifi to remote controlled devices which allow language translation, manipulation of matter, mental telepathy, and control over the state of energy/ matter, then how do you tell, by observation, if this is a tech based abilty or a genetically evolved one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #56 Share Posted January 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: IMO a real god is an evolved sentient being. Hi Walker You have given so many contradictory descriptions of your alien including ancient alien holograph which means you have not defined what it is and therefore cannot describe it because you do not know what it is and it has not told you either or there would be no confusion in your descriptions. 45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Have powers we consider god like eg being able to raise the dead would be a good example And yet your came to the hospital to tell you what you already knew you were in bad physical shape and killing yourself, why not heal you if it could stop you from smoking with no effort? 47 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: e there may be many "god- like" beings in the galaxy who are not interested in us and thus are not our gods Our gods might have "gods" of there own eg even more advanced beings. wemay wellbecome gods to other animals as the y evolve the self aware consciousness and language to formulate the conception of a god. And the plot thickens Show us the money honey you can't spend what you don't have and you do not have evidence of the scientific method sort. 50 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: ie It is just a label (English speaking) humans use to describe a certain classification of being Yes they are descriptors of something specific that have identifying qualities. jmccr8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #57 Share Posted January 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, godnodog said: true, but we can infer their existence by using our existence as evidence/hint. is there life in the universe? answer is 100% yes and easely proven Hi godnodog Yes but can you prove that they have been here or had any influence in our development? jmccr8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #58 Share Posted January 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Aliens are nonhumans, thus gods of any type, other than human beings, are, by defintion, alien Hi Walker People from different countries are called aliens as well and human so I am not seeing that a biological being from another planet as any different and would call the humanoid or like us and when you can prove that they are not like us I will consider your term. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #59 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Pretty sure I just did old timer. Prove me wrong if you can. Your anecdotes of your ET sheila with three titties doesn't count btw. You're allowed an opinion. That's your opinion. Nup While you can physically say it, it is inaccurate and poor grammar . Nup you prove me wrong that example was a dream construct showing my abilty to create, by design, any entity within a dream and control it's behaviour However, yep i have observed multiple alien species. Prove me wrong well its my opinion because I don't know. It maybe an artificial intelligence controlling events via prior programming I dont have enough knowledge to be able to ascertain this One thing i can be certain of, is that no real physical thing exists, without a context of either evolution or creation (as with motor cars artificial intelligence etc) yep its my opinion about what constitutes a god Give me a better one that can be applied to real beings and imaginary constructs. The label bit is not opinion it is simple fact Thats what humans do. We apply labels to individuals or groups so we can communicate intelligently about them (imagine having to describe a dragon every time you wanted to talk about one. Those individuals or groups can be real or imaginary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted January 21, 2021 #60 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just now, Mr Walker said: Nup While you can physically say it, it is inaccurate and poor grammar . Nup you prove me wrong that example was a dream construct showing my abilty to create, by design, any entity within a dream and control it's behaviour However, yep i have observed multiple alien species. Prove me wrong well its my opinion because I don't know. It maybe an artificial intelligence controlling events via prior programming I dont have enough knowledge to be able to ascertain this One thing i can be certain of, is that no real physical thing exists, without a context of either evolution or creation (as with motor cars artificial intelligence etc) yep its my opinion about what constitutes a god Give me a better one that can be applied to real beings and imaginary constructs. The label bit is not opinion it is simple fact Thats what humans do. We apply labels to individuals or groups so we can communicate intelligently about them (imagine having to describe a dragon every time you wanted to talk about one. Those individuals or groups can be real or imaginary. You've got nothing, as I suspected. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #61 Share Posted January 21, 2021 46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: god may help to educate us, but not intervene on a species level. Hi Walker Most religious mythology shows that gods do intervene and play with humans with no regard for human life or with their living conditions. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #62 Share Posted January 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker You have given so many contradictory descriptions of your alien including ancient alien holograph which means you have not defined what it is and therefore cannot describe it because you do not know what it is and it has not told you either or there would be no confusion in your descriptions. And yet your came to the hospital to tell you what you already knew you were in bad physical shape and killing yourself, why not heal you if it could stop you from smoking with no effort? And the plot thickens Show us the money honey you can't spend what you don't have and you do not have evidence of the scientific method sort. Yes they are descriptors of something specific that have identifying qualities. jmccr8 rather, if it was NOT real, it could be described more consistently and accurately. Youve mixed up events decades apart It DID heal me /prevent me from smoking and removed the addiction It came to hospital to assure me tha t i would be ok. I wasn't killing myself I lived a healthy life on a farm with lots of physical activities every day but i had inherited a bad heart from my parents It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire "God" is everywhere and in us /all around us (a bit like the internet) Thus it can appear as anything, and at any time. It adapts its manifestation to the purpose of its visit, and sometimes as protective camouflage Eg in a crowd it might appear as a human being. In the bush it might be a tree or an animal. It can just be voice, a touch, or a physical being It can warn you, teach you, empower you, and it can physically protect you, or give you the abilty to protect yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #63 Share Posted January 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: You've got nothing, as I suspected. Prove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #64 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker Most religious mythology shows that gods do intervene and play with humans with no regard for human life or with their living conditions. jmccr8 I disagree. While there are many god forms, most interact with humans in a symbiotic relationship of give and take. The bible for example teaches us healthy ways to live, and behave in a community. (it is a bit out of date now, but most of the basic lessons still apply) In most religions gods have the power, but humans can negotiate with them . Oh sorry, i missed the connection. I was talking about real gods with real powers Imaginary ones can do anything humans want them to but real ones are constrained by practicalities Edited January 21, 2021 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted January 21, 2021 #65 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire Why wasn't this warning mentioned in the interview you gave? Or was this a case of incorrect reporting similar to the SDA article mentioning your position as a pathfinder? Edited January 21, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted January 21, 2021 #66 Share Posted January 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Essan said: Originally, all gods were anthropomorphisms of nature Later they came to mean and be different things to different people according to need. If people today see gods as aliens it's because they have a need to believe that alien gods exist. It does not mean alien gods exist I think something else exists without question in my mind. I just don’t know what it is but I think it’s good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted January 21, 2021 #67 Share Posted January 21, 2021 59 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Aliens are nonhumans, thus gods of any type, other than human beings, are, by defintion, alien Using that made-up definition, dogs are aliens. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: No theist actually argues against god being an alien being (except thoise who argue for it being a human being) You mean like 2 billion Christians? That's a bit too big of a chunk to justify starting a sentence with 'no theist' in my view... 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: In my experience "god" is bound by a form of non intervention code like that posited in star trek That is not the god a lot of other people have experienced, which is specifically stated to be entirely unbound. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: This makes me think that god is an agent of a wider form of governance OR it is a code ":god" has adopted to allow species to survive and evolve without intervention That's not 'god', that's Gort. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #68 Share Posted January 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: My entity qualifies on tha t ground given its relationship with me and my knowledge understanding of it, combined with its DEMONSTRATED abilities. Hi Walker That's nice for you but dos not demonstrate that you alien is real just something you talk about. 26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: How do you know they were not real, and were not the perceptions of the people who encountered them Well if they were real they would still be here and if they were mortal men then they are dead and had nothing significantly unique about them other than the story exaggerated on about them 29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Nup i dont get where you are going or why . You may have a concept of what a god is. Yes I do and it is well known to you and it has nothing to do with glorifying common men or aliens 31 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: I am not obliged to agree with that, given the thousands of god types in human history. You've never actually outlined your own beliefs or lack of beliefs or how you see a god as being, IF it is real and physical I am real and I am physical as for my construct of god I see intelligence and the ability to see and realize potential and modify ourselves and environment as god we create so it's not all that complicated 34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: There is no way to tell if an abilty is tech based or a naturla ability eg if a being has implants connected via wifi to remote controlled devices which allow language translation, manipulation of matter, mental telepathy, and control over the state of energy/ matter, then how do you tell, by observation, if this is a tech based abilty or a genetically evolved one ? Well we have some pretty amazing tech that can identify tech so if your alien wants to come in for a check up it can be determined. It does not change the fact that without tech it is and everyday humdrum human(oid) jmccr8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #69 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Why wasn't this warning mentioned in the interview you gave? Or was this a case of incorrect reporting similar to the SDA article mentioning your position as a pathfinder? Nup thats the facts I didn.t mention the intervention of god to a "parliamentary commision" Would you have done ? But i certainly talked about it with colleagues friends relatives etc. My point was tha t god should not have needed to warn us. A system should have been in place to do so (without gods warning and protection we would have died in the house when it exploded( as a number of my friends and colleagues did) ) Thankfully my suggestions, along with those of others WERE adopted and put into place We received a radio broadcast from a mains powered radio when the power had been off for several hours and our power lines were lying on the ground melted God (the cosmic consciousness) had told me to turn the radio on and listen to the warning which i did even knowing there was no power (its not a good idea to argue with a god It told us that the fire front had changed direction and was burning rapidly towards, us about 6 kilometres to the south We had about 5 minutes to grab animals and valuables and get out. By then spot fires and dense smoke were all around us The house blew up a few minutes after we left it God told me we would be safe and unharmed That allowed me to remain calm and drive very slowly and carefully through the fire front A number of peole were killed when they panicked and drove off the road in dense smoke My cousin followed gods instructions and survived the fire front burning over him as he lay in a ditch His only injury was a badly burned hand. He tried to open the car door after the fire had passed, and it melted in his hand, sticking to it, and burning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #70 Share Posted January 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: Using that made-up definition, dogs are aliens. You mean like 2 billion Christians? That's a bit too big of a chunk to justify starting a sentence with 'no theist' in my view... That is not the god a lot of other people have experienced, which is specifically stated to be entirely unbound. That's not 'god', that's Gort. Christians generally dont see god as a human being or from this planet check the definition of alien. it has many variants, but basically means not of this area or neighbourhood or nation. specifically it refers to off earth beings. so yep you could argue tha t dogs are alien to human beings, or men are alien to women But when talking about types of gods the y either originate on earth or off earth if they originate off earth the y are aliens I appreciate you dont believe in the existence of gods, but how would you define the christian god (not Christ, but god) human or non human? when you experince a god how do you KNOW if it is unbound or not? Those are characteristics we may GIVE to a being but may not apply If we construct an imaginary god it can have any qualities if its a real being it will be limited to qualities which are physically possible. In a sense, it's very physicality imposes those limits upon it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #71 Share Posted January 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker People from different countries are called aliens as well and human so I am not seeing that a biological being from another planet as any different and would call the humanoid or like us and when you can prove that they are not like us I will consider your term. jmccr8 That was included in my explanation an alien can be many things but any being originating off world IS an alien by all standard definitions The y can be just like a human being or completely different but if the y dont come from earth the y are an alien . So, in your mind, where do real gods originate from, if the y exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted January 21, 2021 Author #72 Share Posted January 21, 2021 37 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: rather, if it was NOT real, it could be described more consistently and accurately. Youve mixed up events decades apart It DID heal me /prevent me from smoking and removed the addiction It came to hospital to assure me tha t i would be ok. I wasn't killing myself I lived a healthy life on a farm with lots of physical activities every day but i had inherited a bad heart from my parents It both warned us and reassured us when we lost our house in the bushfire "God" is everywhere and in us /all around us (a bit like the internet) Thus it can appear as anything, and at any time. It adapts its manifestation to the purpose of its visit, and sometimes as protective camouflage Eg in a crowd it might appear as a human being. In the bush it might be a tree or an animal. It can just be voice, a touch, or a physical being It can warn you, teach you, empower you, and it can physically protect you, or give you the abilty to protect yourself Hi Walker Years ago I knew a guy that was going through a rough time and he made his hot water rad in his room the god he talked to and this is exactly what I think you have done, either that or you never out grew your imaginary friend from childhood because you claim 60 years of experience with this entity so you were 9-10 years old but you have stated earlier experiences so this just seem like your safe place in life. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 21, 2021 #73 Share Posted January 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Christians generally dont see god as a human being or from this planet check the definition of alien. it has many variants, but basically means not of this area or neighbourhood or nation. specifically it refers to off earth beings. so yep you could argue tha t dogs are alien to human beings, or men are alien to women But when talking about types of gods the y either originate on earth or off earth if they originate off earth the y are aliens I appreciate you dont believe in the existence of gods, but how would you define the christian god (not Christ, but god) human or non human? when you experince a god how do you KNOW if it is unbound or not? Those are characteristics we may GIVE to a being but may not apply If we construct an imaginary god it can have any qualities if its a real being it will be limited to qualities which are physically possible. In a sense, it's very physicality imposes those limits upon it . A definition is a description, not evidence. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 21, 2021 #74 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, papageorge1 said: Er....certainly not. An alien to me implies other planetary. The Abrahamic God is beyond that. ok if its not from earth then, by definition, it is an alien I would agree that it is much beyond that, but it does not originate on earth or in the minds of earthlings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 21, 2021 #75 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Hi Jay Maybe it's just my perception, but it strikes me that many seem to think that replacing God did it, with Aliens did it somehow makes more sense. We can't build the pyramids Aliens must have done it We could never fit hard stone Aliens must have done it We can't have evolved into intelligent beings alone Aliens must have done it The Bible makes no sense, but it simply must be true ............................... This is an interesting link. https://www.google.com/amp/s/hyperallergic.com/470795/pseudoarchaeology-and-the-racism-behind-ancient-aliens/ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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