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jmccr8

Are all gods aliens?

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jmccr8
28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

To postulate something exists, without a shred of direct evidence, is an argument or rationalization without proof. It is not falsifiable. In dealing with the concept of something that creates universes we stray beyond human experience, beyond human comprehension. We are, thus, reduced to the same status of our primitive ancestors, huddled around campfires, anthropomorphizing deities to explain lightning, rain and thunder, the sun, moon and stars and all other natural phenomena that surrounded and bewildered them. In this thread I see the same thing happening, gods created in our own image, not so much the image of our flesh, but in the image of our own minds. 

Hi Hammer

We will see how things go this topic has derailed and closed dozens of threads and never been resolved so this is the pit and we aren't peeing in anyone else's pool so It seems to be a reasonable resolution for fair discussion. I gave the OP specifically tailored to Walker's claims and defensives of primarily Christians and the attributes of the god of that religion as an comparative for requirements that his alien needs to satisfy to validate his position

edited to include all of the Abrahamic religions

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
added context
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Hammerclaw
13 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There may well be other beings out there which are so unrecognisable to us that we cant relate to them, or them to us.

  Thus they cant be gods to us.

  It is the connection and similarity which enables one being to be a god to/for another being.

  Likewise with  constructs.

Not much point in constructing a god who cant speak your language or hear you.

We have no more evidence for aliens than we do the gods of Olympus. All we have are stories and the desire to believe and human beings are capable of convincing themselves of the realty of pretty much anything. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Psyche

Yes as a reading form of entertainment sci-fi has been a big seller for the last 100 years and in film more than 50 so people are well indoctrinated in fictional thinking

then we have people like Dankin and ilk that put biased speculation into new dimensions then throw in a little astral travel and lucid dreaming and you get Walker.:D

jmccr8

No Walker is a bloke who grew up living in this world, where he was reading aged 2, lucid dreaming aged 3, beginning to control his mind by age 4 etc.  Who was flying around his neighbourhood in dreams while a pre schooler  and building dreamscapes and lands to live in every night in his dreams, and travelling the world with projection of consciousness before high school 

Yep i can identify some things  i read as a child which i incorporated in some of my dreams etc but  mostly it was matter of learning about my mind and what it was capable of doing 

 

What I am is what i am  Those abilities and qualities and interactions are real and have been all my llfe Inever knew anything theoretical  about them until i was middle aged and the internet arrived Ijust developed all those abilities by myself 

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jmccr8
10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok so simply being human makes you a god?   :) 

Hi Walker 

i do not think I am god I am inclined that the ability to think is god 

jmccr8

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Nuclear Wessel
Just now, Mr Walker said:

No Walker is a bloke who grew up living in this world, where he was reading aged 2, lucid dreaming aged 3, beginning to control his mind by age 4 etc.  Who was flying around his neighbourhood in dreams while a pre schooler  and building dreamscapes and lands to live in every night in his dreams, and travelling the world with projection of consciousness before high school 

Yep i can identify some things  i read as a child which i incorporated in some of my dreams etc but  mostly it was matter of learning about my mind and what it was capable of doing 

 

What I am is what i am  Those abilities and qualities and interactions are real and have been all my llfe Inever knew anything theoretical  about them until i was middle aged and the internet arrived Ijust developed all those abilities by myself 

What was the make/model of the radio?

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Hammerclaw
5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker 

i do not think I am god I am inclined that the ability to think is god 

jmccr8

I thought you were an avatar of Dionysus.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

We have no more evidence for aliens than we do the gods of Olympus. All we have are stories and the desire to believe and human beings  are capable of convincing themselves of the realty pretty much anything. 

again with the we. :) 

What is true for you is not true for me 

I have personal  experience based evidences.

My wife and i would be dead if the y did NOT exist, and did not intervene in this world 

All YOU  have is stories.

Ive lived with these beings/entities  for almost 60 years, although when i was young i didn't understand what the y were or how the y could intervene physically.

I thought the y were a part of the cosmic consciousness which connected all consciousness in the galaxy   This was way before the internet but think of an internet of minds where communication is mind to mind, and can exist across the galaxy perhaps as a form of quantum entanglement.  

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

again with the we. :) 

What is true for you is not true for me 

I have personal  experience based evidences.

My wife and i would be dead if the y did NOT exist, and did not intervene in this world 

All YOU  have is stories.

Ive lived with these beings/entities  for almost 60 years, although when i was young i didn't understand what the y were or how the y could intervene physically.

I thought the y were a part of the cosmic consciousness which connected all consciousness in the galaxy   This was way before the internet but think of an internet of minds where communication is mind to mind, and can exist across the galaxy perhaps as a form of quantum entanglement.  

Define quantum entanglement--in your own words, no cut-and-paste. If you can't do that, you're just dropping big words.

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jmccr8
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I thought you were an avatar of Dionysus.

Hi Hammer

More like a centaur with big hooves :lol:

jmccr8

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

More like a centaur with big hooves :lol:

jmccr8

I'm more like the progeny of Shub Niggurath, myself.

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I'm more like the progeny of Shub Niggurath, myself.

Hi Hammer

What handsome travel companions we are :lol::tu:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No Walker is a bloke who grew up living in this world, where he was reading aged 2, lucid dreaming aged 3, beginning to control his mind by age 4 etc.  Who was flying around his neighbourhood in dreams while a pre schooler  and building dreamscapes and lands to live in every night in his dreams, and travelling the world with projection of consciousness before high school 

Yep i can identify some things  i read as a child which i incorporated in some of my dreams etc but  mostly it was matter of learning about my mind and what it was capable of doing 

 

What I am is what i am  Those abilities and qualities and interactions are real and have been all my llfe Inever knew anything theoretical  about them until i was middle aged and the internet arrived Ijust developed all those abilities by myself 

Hi Walker

That's nice when I was 16 I thought I invented sex.

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
5 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

What was the make/model of the radio?

Got burned in the fire 

I think a National brand. It had the abilty to hear am fm and pull in broadcasts from  across the world 

It did NOT have the capacity to run for  a couple of  minutes when the power  had been out for several hours  It had no batteries in it and worked from  mains power  although it might also have been able to operate from   batteries 

 it looked a bit like this                                            or this

Vintage National  Panasonic  R-807J 2 Band 12 Transistor Radioimage.jpeg.5b56e1858a754a2ab9c95d1a4ddafb5c.jpeg

We were on the end of a SWER line on a farm   and the power often went off.

The radio NEVER worked, even for a second, without power, let alone  a couple of minutes 

It came on and operated only, and exactly, as  the  radio warning was being broadcast that the fire was bearing down on our house, and was only a few miles away  As the broadcast finished the radio stopped operating     

 

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Mr Walker
27 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Define quantum entanglement--in your own words, no cut-and-paste. If you can't do that, you're just dropping big words.

basically instantaneous communication via entangled  photons or similar  where one photon no mater how far away responds instantly to  manipulation of the other photon 

Eventually it may be used for matter transmission and communication. Presently  the Chinese are capable of this  from earth to  orbiting satellites and return 

This is old news now  2017

who knows how far they have progressed 

Quantum entanglement—physics at its strangest—has moved out of this world and into space. In a study that shows China's growing mastery of both the quantum world and space science, a team of physicists reports that it sent eerily intertwined quantum particles from a satellite to ground stations separated by 1200 kilometers, smashing the previous world record. The result is a stepping stone to ultrasecure communication networks and, eventually, a space-based quantum internet.

"It's a huge, major achievement," says Thomas Jennewein, a physicist at the University of Waterloo in Canada. "They started with this bold idea and managed to do it."

Entanglement involves putting objects in the peculiar limbo of quantum superposition, in which an object's quantum properties occupy multiple states at once: like Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive at the same time. Then those quantum states are shared among multiple objects. Physicists have entangled particles such as electrons and photons, as well as larger objects such as superconducting electric circuits.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/china-s-quantum-satellite-achieves-spooky-action-record-distance

at the moment i dont think its instantaneous or faster than light, but that is coming, as we master quantum communications and the technologies required  

quote

Nevertheless, research continues on this subject and some physicists believe that faster-than-light communication might be possible with some intricate manipulation of entangled particles. For now, we know that the interaction between entangled quantum particles is faster than the speed of light. In fact, Chinese physicists have measured the speed. We know that quantum entanglement can be used to realize quantum teleportation experimentally. We know that entanglement has applications in the emerging technologies of quantum computing and quantum cryptography. With a fiber optic network that can carry conventional data and quantum data, a quantum internet is becoming more of a possibility. The real hurdle to overcome, though is being able to communicate data through quantum entanglement – that’s when we might be able to communicate faster than the speed of light.

https://quantumxc.com/is-quantum-communication-faster-than-the-speed-of-light/#:~:text=Although these entangled particles are,basis for the premise that

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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jmccr8
38 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ps do you honestly think i dont see myself and my world in this same way?

Hi Walker

Not inferring that at all what I am saying is we don't live in the same world in the same sense nor do we see the world the same we argue about everything it's not a defect or bad thing just what it is and in discussions like this I am mostly trying to get you to define what you are saying because at time I'm not sure what you are arguing or why it's relevant and here we can take those sidetracks and not offend anyone.

46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I was raised to be like you describe here. "god" is simply an optional extra  It is not a crutch for the weak or a support for the needy. It is a tutor, a protector, a mentor and a guide. Its a mix of father/mother , older brother, uncle, wife etc. 

I see it as a unique aspect of evolution that is ore of a necessity rather than an extra part people don't use:huh:

49 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You can take to or leave it,  (i managed very well without it for a long time,)  but you are much more powerful when you learn to live with it, and adapt it to your own purposes  ) It will protect you from harm, as well, when you can't protect yourself 

Yes I would say that thinkers are more powerful when they use it and it has never failed to protect me so long as I used think/adapt/modify and engage

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
15 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

That's nice when I was 16 I thought I invented sex.

jmccr8

lol nup I'd  been reading about it for years by then and was just beginning personal experimentation   I had a pretty good understanding of the biology etc but little idea about girls  I only had much younger sisters  and  little understanding pf the female psyche  

 Young women changed  during my adolescence, with the advent of the pill, and sexual liberation

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Not inferring that at all what I am saying is we don't live in the same world in the same sense nor do we see the world the same we argue about everything it's not a defect or bad thing just what it is and in discussions like this I am mostly trying to get you to define what you are saying because at time I'm not sure what you are arguing or why it's relevant and here we can take those sidetracks and not offend anyone.

I see it as a unique aspect of evolution that is ore of a necessity rather than an extra part people don't use:huh:

Yes I would say that thinkers are more powerful when they use it and it has never failed to protect me so long as I used think/adapt/modify and engage

jmccr8

Nice to be in agreement for once.

i appreciate the effort it took to find those areas of agreement 

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jmccr8
Just now, Mr Walker said:

lol nup I'd  been reading about it for years by then and was just beginning personal experimentation   I had a pretty good understanding of the biology etc but little idea about girls  I only had much younger sisters  and  little understanding pf the female psyche  

 Young women changed  during my adolescence, with the advent of the pill, and sexual liberation

Hi Walker

It was  JOKE :huh:

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
Just now, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

It was  JOKE :huh:

jmccr8

yep so was my reply, but   i dont think we get each other's humour :)  

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

yep so was my reply, but   i dont think we get each other's humour :)  

Hi Walker

Do you think that was a crying emoji like I gave you?:lol:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Nice to be in agreement for once.

i appreciate the effort it took to find those areas of agreement 

Hi Walker

So then do you understand why I do not need an "entity" human like or alien then?

jmccr8

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godnodog
6 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi godnodog

Yes but can you prove that they have been here or had any influence in our development?

jmccr8

of course not, and I didn't said that or quoted you on that.

also I do think there's a pretty good chance of Earth been visited at some point in the last millions of years, either by explorers or probes.

and then we gave the mass witnessed events like the one in my country that happened in Fátima (Portugal), which even had reporters present for the 'upcoming scheduled" event that ended up happening (what happened remains unexplained).

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jmccr8
3 minutes ago, godnodog said:

of course not, and I didn't said that or quoted you on that.

also I do think there's a pretty good chance of Earth been visited at some point in the last millions of years, either by explorers or probes.

and then we gave the mass witnessed events like the one in my country that happened in Fátima (Portugal), which even had reporters present for the 'upcoming scheduled" event that ended up happening (what happened remains unexplained).

Hi godnodog

I wasn't challenging you just trying to get a better understanding

jmccr8

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godnodog
15 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi godnodog

I wasn't challenging you just trying to get a better understanding

jmccr8

I know mate, alls gud.

I just decided to add a few more things.

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eight bits
5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Nup thats the facts I didn.t mention the intervention of god to a "parliamentary  commision"  :)  Would you have done ?

I would say what happened. If the commission then wished to have, in addition to the objective facts, my interpretation of the religious significance of those events (as well they might if I held a youth leadership position in the local SDA church), then they could ask about that and I would answer.

But based on the direct quotes in the article, having raised the point that fortunate circumstances were fundamental to your wife's survival, it would be natural enough to add "... and even then, it was a lucky break that our radio worked just long enough that I heard the newly revised official warning which told me that the fire had changed course and was headed our way."

There is no earthly reason why I would have had the slightest reluctance to testify that way, if that was what happened.

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

My point was tha t god should not have needed to warn us.

Yes, that comes through in what is quoted: your wife's survival ought not to have depended on a quirky combination of circumstances. The radio business continues that theme nicely. There's simply no problem with your testifying in a way that would dramatically reinforce the point you were obviously making.

On a different matter:

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Christians generally dont see god as a human being or from  this planet 

Chrisitans generally define their faith as seeing a human being (Jesus of Galilee) as God ("the Son" in the Trinity). Now, some Christians see that same human being as having been an angel (Michael) instead of God ... for example, Seventh Day Adventists.

But you know that better than I do. You have lots of experience teaching it to young people.

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