Best Trump achievements IYO

[Knob Oddy]

17 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's not too expensive, it's just a waste of money because it doesn't work.  Texas could afford to build their own wall for instance, but instead just showboat their "Operation Lonestar" and give immigrants free (well Texas tax payer paid for) trips to DC.  

Yeah, I'm sure the money sent to Ukraine wouldn't help one bit if it was spent to secure the US border..... 

[Gromdor]

12 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Yeah, I'm sure the money sent to Ukraine wouldn't help one bit if it was spent to secure the US border..... 

You know when you buy groceries for your house, you don't have to skip paying your mortgage...

Texas has a $27 billion budget surplus.  They could build a wall, fix their power systems, or do whatever for it.  The war in Ukraine doesn't mean we we are broke.  This either/or mentality doesn't work in this case.

 

[Golden Duck]

24 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Yeah, I'm sure the money sent to Ukraine wouldn't help one bit if it was spent to secure the US border..... 

The money sent to Ukraine is a Congressional mandate since before Trump.  That was the major catalyst for the impeachment.

Remember Trump had a friendly Congress when elected; so, we can infer that a Conservative Republican Congress didn't share the same greivances as you.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Golden Duck

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

No.  It takes time to get any big project up and running.  Logistics, etc.  Trump took the hit because he made such an issue of it.  People didn't realize it was already under way.

Doug

Much like the "children in cages", right? Conceived and implemented under Obama, but villanized under Trump.

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Half of illegals just fly in and overstay their visas.

Trump had his four years to show progress/solve the problem and he didn't- so he got fired.  He could have done stuff like push for legislation changes on our asylum laws, but opted for a wall he couldn't complete and that didn't do anything to stop border crossings. (Not going to link the sawzall, cheap 5$ ladder, or people just plain climbing over again.)

I mean, I guess you can say he set up hurdles that increased migrant death rate- if you see that as a plus.

 

Yeah, I think they find dozens... DOZENS... of ladders per year. Possibly hundreds... HUNDREDS... are getting in that way. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands come through the checkpoints. Huh? Just like they're supposed to. Huh?

[Doug1066]

7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Much like the "children in cages", right? Conceived and implemented under Obama, but villanized under Trump.

Sort of.  But under Obama it never got as big as it did under Trump.  Two reasons:  their were fewer unaccompanied minors coming across the border under Obama so they eventually got them housed and under Trump, the cages were a deliberate attempt to get migrants to stay away.  But how do you stay away if you'll be murdered if you go home?

We have not built adequate facilities for receiving the 122,000 unaccompanied children who have come to our border.  The problem mostly is lack of funding from Congress.  But assuming that were forthcoming, the problem would likely become one of insufficient foster families.  We wouldn't need a lot of foster families if we would allow families to enter as a unit rather than sending them to border camps in Mexico where to keep the kids out of the dangerous camps, the parents send them to the border alone hoping that we will keep the safe.

Doug

https://www.vera.org/news/children-are-still-being-separated-from-their-families-at-the-border

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Yeah, I think they find dozens... DOZENS... of ladders per year. Possibly hundreds... HUNDREDS... are getting in that way. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands come through the checkpoints. Huh? Just like they're supposed to. Huh?

Umm...  I am going to have to ask for a source for your numbers.  

I'll give a few links to articles: A Section of Border Wall in Texas Cost $27 Million a Mile. It’s Being Foiled by $5 Ladders. – Texas Monthly

People Climbing Over Trump's $15 Billion Border Wall With $5 Ladders (businessinsider.com)

Some pictures:

As my sources.  But yeah, about half, if not more of the illegals I have met in my life told me they just flew in on an airplane.  One gal got a work visa as an overseas tele-marketer- she was suppossed to go home after two years, wait two years and apply again.  She just stayed in the US and applied again after two years.  She's been here since.  Family of four flew in to visit their aunt.  Never left.  Gal from Ireland had drug charges on her and fled the country to the US and never went back.  A bunch on H-2 visas.

Heck, you forget we had Postville here in Iowa: Postville raid - Wikipedia

The company literally helped them get here, gave them fake IDs, and gave them a job.

[+Desertrat56]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:41 AM, DieChecker said:

I'd gladly pay 2 billion dollars, or the whole 30 billion, to get a contiguous and protected border, such as every nation has, if it so desires. 

Would that include a wall between the U.S. and Canada too?

[+DieChecker]

On 7/17/2022 at 6:51 PM, Gromdor said:

Umm...  I am going to have to ask for a source for your numbers.  

I'll give a few links to articles: A Section of Border Wall in Texas Cost $27 Million a Mile. It’s Being Foiled by $5 Ladders. – Texas Monthly

People Climbing Over Trump's $15 Billion Border Wall With $5 Ladders (businessinsider.com)

Some pictures:

As my sources.  But yeah, about half, if not more of the illegals I have met in my life told me they just flew in on an airplane.  One gal got a work visa as an overseas tele-marketer- she was suppossed to go home after two years, wait two years and apply again.  She just stayed in the US and applied again after two years.  She's been here since.  Family of four flew in to visit their aunt.  Never left.  Gal from Ireland had drug charges on her and fled the country to the US and never went back.  A bunch on H-2 visas.

Heck, you forget we had Postville here in Iowa: Postville raid - Wikipedia

The company literally helped them get here, gave them fake IDs, and gave them a job.

Here's a link to an article.

https://www.borderreport.com/hot-topics/the-border-wall/countless-makeshift-ladders-encountered-during-daily-border-wall-sweeps-agents-say/

It says sometimes several per day. But also says they send a single truck once a week to collect them, but that may just at the one section in Texas. The picture has a truck with two ladders in it. 

So, being generous let's say a thousand per year over the length of the border. Most of ladders in the article looked like they were for crossing a ten foot wall, not a thirty foot Trump wall.

And let's say over those thousand ladders, again being generous,  maybe 20 people get over each one. 20,000 people, but with 650,000 people encountered at the border. So, like 3% maybe get here by ladder. And that's being generous. Probably closer to 1%. 

And where do the other 97% go? Two places... 1, Where there is no wall. Or, 2, points of entry. Probably the far greater number goes to the points of entry. AND... Why do they do that? Well, because there's a WALL for dozens, or hundreds of miles in both directions. And few want to risk TWO thirty foot ladders that were just build out of twigs. Closing up more wall would encourage most of those crossing at low wall/no wall areas to ALSO go to the points of entry.

Oh, I agree most come legally by plane, or car, and just stay over. I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

But if we guess that 200,000 cross where there's no fence. If there is a Wall there, then even if they resort to ladders, probably only 20,000, or 30,000, would be getting in outside a point of entry. That's a Win in my book.

[+DieChecker]

11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Would that include a wall between the U.S. and Canada too?

Is one needed? How many illegals get in by way of Canada?

Edit: Looks like it's not extremely common.

https://www.minnpost.com/national/2022/01/what-we-know-about-illegal-border-crossings-into-the-u-s-from-canada/

Quote

By this measure, northern border crossings were actually way down last year. Data show the Border Protection apprehended or expelled 916 migrants along the U.S.-Canada border in the 2021 fiscal year, down from 2,155 in 2020 (all CBP data shown are in federal fiscal years, which run from October through September).

Just a couple thousand.

= No Wall Needed.

Edited July 19, 2022 by DieChecker

[Gromdor]

13 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Here's a link to an article.

https://www.borderreport.com/hot-topics/the-border-wall/countless-makeshift-ladders-encountered-during-daily-border-wall-sweeps-agents-say/

It says sometimes several per day. But also says they send a single truck once a week to collect them, but that may just at the one section in Texas. The picture has a truck with two ladders in it. 

So, being generous let's say a thousand per year over the length of the border. Most of ladders in the article looked like they were for crossing a ten foot wall, not a thirty foot Trump wall.

And let's say over those thousand ladders, again being generous,  maybe 20 people get over each one. 20,000 people, but with 650,000 people encountered at the border. So, like 3% maybe get here by ladder. And that's being generous. Probably closer to 1%. 

And where do the other 97% go? Two places... 1, Where there is no wall. Or, 2, points of entry. Probably the far greater number goes to the points of entry. AND... Why do they do that? Well, because there's a WALL for dozens, or hundreds of miles in both directions. And few want to risk TWO thirty foot ladders that were just build out of twigs. Closing up more wall would encourage most of those crossing at low wall/no wall areas to ALSO go to the points of entry.

Oh, I agree most come legally by plane, or car, and just stay over. I'm not saying that doesn't happen.

But if we guess that 200,000 cross where there's no fence. If there is a Wall there, then even if they resort to ladders, probably only 20,000, or 30,000, would be getting in outside a point of entry. That's a Win in my book.

Several problems with your source.

1) It's just you guessing.

2) You assume most (if not all) the coyotes leave the ladder at the wall.

3) No one has an accurate count of the people that cross the wall and don't get caught.

4) You are assuming that ladder technology is the only way immigrants can get past the wall (tunnels, sawz-alls, a rope,  driving a truck up next to it and just climbing over that, etc.)

5) You are assuming the ones that go to the point of entry were trying to sneak in instead of legally apply for asylum as per US law.

And then lastly for the bolded:  If we are winning, then why is everyone complaining we are not?  You logic is like the people saying that their mosquito repellant works but they walk in with twice as many bug bites.

The Border Wall Didn’t Work | Cato at Liberty Blog

 

 

 

 

[Likely Guy]

29 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Is one needed? How many illegals get in by way of Canada?

About sixty thousand illegal Canadians are living there now.

[the13bats]

The best thing trump did was not get reelected.

[Gromdor]

Well, if we go with the idea that walls work by channelling the immigrants towards a different pathway then if we wall off all of our southern border naturally the flow would be diverted through our northern border more.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

The best thing trump did was not get reelected.

Ah, Trump wasn't all bad for me personally.  His tax cut actually sorta raised my taxes but I changed my circumstances to avoid that.  But one aspect actually helped.  He got rid of the taxes on military severance pay and made it retroactive.  So Gromdor who got out back in 1994 during Clinton's downsizing with a $10,000 check ended up getting another $12,000 because of that and the magic of compound interest.  

[+DieChecker]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Several problems with your source.

1) It's just you guessing.

Sure. I'll admit that. But the guesses I'm putting out are based on actual numbers. Based on results from the past.

Quote

2) You assume most (if not all) the coyotes leave the ladder at the wall.

The article doesn't say they do t carry off the ladders. But it strongly suggests that they build them on site, so they don't pre-built them and carry them there. Which suggests they do not carry off the constructed ladders. Maybe the 2 by 4s are carried off, but I didn't see that suggested either. But that would still leave the "rungs", which would be found.

Quote

3) No one has an accurate count of the people that cross the wall and don't get caught.

True. But there is the rough guess at the number of ladders found. And a rough guess at how many use each ladder, before it breaks, or the Coyotes run off. Thus limiting the number using thus technique. It can't be tens of thousands of ladders, or there'd more extensive evidence.

What can't be known is how many cross at "no fence" areas. Or not easily. I do feel they have rough numbers. Just as we have rough numbers for how many bears, cougars, and deer, are in a specific area.

But AFAIK, this article says 650,000 people encountered. The link I posted for Canada crossings above says roughly 1.6 million encounters per year.

Quote

4) You are assuming that ladder technology is the only way immigrants can get past the wall (tunnels, sawz-alls, a rope,  driving a truck up next to it and just climbing over that, etc.)

Sure tunnels are possible, but the Wall goes down like 10 feet, so that's a time prohibitive way for the coyotes. Similarly sawing takes avoid while, with lots of noise. Probably also time prohibitive for coyotes. And a truck just isn't going to get them over a thirty foot wall.

Why do you think it's so expensive? It goes underground and is hard to ram, or cut through. Going over is the only real fast option and that's seen very limited use.

Quote

5) You are assuming the ones that go to the point of entry were trying to sneak in instead of legally apply for asylum as per US law.

I'm suggesting that those who decide NOT to go over the wall go to the POE and apply for entry. Like they should. Or they head to a area with just fencing. Likely hundreds of thousands still cross in no fence areas. But... if there was a Wall there... They'd most likely go to a POE.

Quote

And then lastly for the bolded:  If we are winning, then why is everyone complaining we are not?  You logic is like the people saying that their mosquito repellant works but they walk in with twice as many bug bites.

The Border Wall Didn’t Work | Cato at Liberty Blog

One, Biden stated on campaign he'd tear down the wall and stop detaining children. 

So... The people sent their children alone. Causing mass suffering, and seperating families. Fault.. Biden. Or, at least his Administration. 

Also, his words led to a doubling of people showing up. Making the Border Patrols job that much harder.

It's impossible to get direct numbers, but of the 650 miles of Trump Wall, did More, or Less, people cross in those areas. Logical answer... Much Less.

This equals proof of theory.

Everyone knows this. It's just politics that Democrats now oppose this. Like you said, Obama budgeted Tons of money to re-fence the border and help  prevent illegal crossings. It's only because Trump loved the Wall idea, and said, "Mexico will pay for it", that got people riled up.

If Hillary Clinton had built this wall, Democrats would be yelling at Republicans to defend the spending.

[+DieChecker]

15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Well, if we go with the idea that walls work by channelling the immigrants towards a different pathway then if we wall off all of our southern border naturally the flow would be diverted through our northern border more.

Or, rather then fly into Texas, they fly into Canada, and cross there. 

Could be a real threat if somehow a way from Mexico to Canada, outside US borders, can be established for the caravans.

[the13bats]

25 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Ah, Trump wasn't all bad for me personally.  His tax cut actually sorta raised my taxes but I changed my circumstances to avoid that.  But one aspect actually helped.  He got rid of the taxes on military severance pay and made it retroactive.  So Gromdor who got out back in 1994 during Clinton's downsizing with a $10,000 check ended up getting another $12,000 because of that and the magic of compound interest.  

If trump sent me 12k i wouldnt dislike near as much as i do.

I realize not you but trumps worshippers loved his bumbling incompetence and BS but America became a world laughing stock because of trump, in a decade people will say "biden who?" And "trump, omg the guy that caused all this." Who knows how long it will take to repair trumps damage the GOP will never be the same.

[Gromdor]

Eh, I'm still under the thought that if walls are so great, then why don't Republicans just build their own.  You don't need the federal governments permission to build a wall or other structure in your own state.  My guess is because they think it is a waste of money and know that it is pointless.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

If trump sent me 12k i wouldnt dislike near as much as i do.

I realize not you but trumps worshippers loved his bumbling incompetence and BS but America became a world laughing stock because of trump, in a decade people will say "biden who?" And "trump, omg the guy that caused all this." Who knows how long it will take to repair trumps damage the GOP will never be the same.

The farmers around here made more money on his bailouts then they would have normally selling their crops and pork to China.  So they like him too.  

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, I'm still under the thought that if walls are so great, then why don't Republicans just build their own.  You don't need the federal governments permission to build a wall or other structure in your own state.  My guess is because they think it is a waste of money and know that it is pointless.

I'd say...

1. Lawsuits... By eco-nutters, and woke-nutters.

2. Then why is there a wall/fence around the White House?

[Gromdor]

10 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'd say...

1. Lawsuits... By eco-nutters, and woke-nutters.

2. Then why is there a wall/fence around the White House?

1) There will always be lawsuits.

2) Didn't keep the Jan.6 protesters out did it?  

Seriously, Bannon and co were collecting millions to build a wall and ended up just using it for themselves.  Trump even pardoned him over it: Steve Bannon pardon: Trump pardons Steve Bannon as one of his final acts in office | CNN Politics

Instead of pocketing it, they could have, you know, built a wall.

[acidhead]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, I'm still under the thought that if walls are so great, then why don't Republicans just build their own.  You don't need the federal governments permission to build a wall or other structure in your own state.  My guess is because they think it is a waste of money and know that it is pointless.

Just curious.... 

In your opinion, if you were President,  what would be your policies regarding the southern border?

[Michelle]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, I'm still under the thought that if walls are so great, then why don't Republicans just build their own.  You don't need the federal governments permission to build a wall or other structure in your own state.  My guess is because they think it is a waste of money and know that it is pointless.

To build Abbott’s border barrier, Texas will use surplus wall panels from the federal government

The 1,700 unused wall panels are being stored in Eagle Pass. Texas didn’t have to explain its plans for the panels when it secured the federal donation.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/15/texas-border-wall-federal-surplus-abbott/

[+Desertrat56]

12 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Is one needed? How many illegals get in by way of Canada?

Edit: Looks like it's not extremely common.

https://www.minnpost.com/national/2022/01/what-we-know-about-illegal-border-crossings-into-the-u-s-from-canada/

Just a couple thousand.

= No Wall Needed.

You don't know who comes across what borders.  The way you declared it meant literally all borders, you didn't say a specific border.    And I don't think you know what countries have border walls, where and why.    You believe the spewing of conservatives who want to pay their buddies to build useless walls and pretend like it is for the protection of the citizens.  Maybe you need to go down and visit the southern border.