UK / EU in row over bloc's diplomatic status

[keithisco]

Quote

 

A diplomatic row has broken out between the UK and EU over the status of the bloc's ambassador in London.

The UK is refusing to give Joao Vale de Almeida the full diplomatic status that is granted to other ambassadors.

The Foreign Office is insisting he and his officials should not have the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention.

It is understood not to want to set a precedent by treating an international body in the same way as a nation state.

As it stands, the ambassador would not have the chance to present his credentials to the Queen like other diplomatic heads of mission.

 

Source: BBC

[keithisco]

The main argument that the EU is basing this demand on is The Lisbon Treaty (signed by UK) where such privilege is stated. The EU fails to understand that the Lisbon Treaty is now defunct and has no standing in UK Law.

The Vienna Convention does not apply to International Organisations, only Nation States whereby Ambassadors are capable of recall by directly Elected Governments, which the EU Commission is not

Edited January 21, 2021 by keithisco
Rubbish spelling

[Ozymandias]

Britain's signature on international treaties is fast becoming worthless. It signed the Lisbon Treaty agreeing to recognise the full status of the EU's ambassador. Over 140 countries around the world accord full ambassadorial status to the EU's diplomatic representative. How low in pettiness can the UK's Brexiteer government go?

Of course, the other issue is that the UK recognises ambassadors from some of the vilest state governments on the planet! But not the EU!!?  

And then there is Brexit. The main argument in the Brexiteer's campaign was that the UK was losing its sovereignty and becoming a vassal state to the 'United States of Europe', the European Union (EU), yet now it is trying to portray the EU as just an international organisation.   

When compared to Joe Biden's speech yesterday this is  just mean-minded, mean-spirited, Little Englander stuff.

[Dreamer screamer]

 

Quote

 

A diplomatic row has broken out between the UK and EU over the status of the bloc's ambassador in London.

The UK is refusing to give Joao Vale de Almeida the full diplomatic status that is granted to other ambassadors.

 

Too right..... we are a soverign common law country now so no one is above the law.

Quote

This means EU diplomats would not have the full protection of the Vienna Convention, giving them immunity from detention, criminal jurisdiction and taxation.

immunity? so they can do what ever they want and even kill as they are immune from criminal jurisdiction, and yes, that is what it means.  

Quote

The British decision is in marked contrast to 142 other countries around the world where the EU has delegations and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

This sovereign nation told the EU to do one and all their evil principrules.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Dreamer screamer

[stevewinn]

The UK reminding the world that the EU is not a country. The UK's reply short, sharp, and to the point.

 

[Dreamer screamer]

8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

The UK reminding the world that the EU is not a country. The UK's reply short, sharp, and to the point.

 

It's a CORPORATION!!   What Corporation actually speaks and has life?  is it because it is a fiction of the mind? 

4. countable noun

If something is a fiction, it is not true, although people sometimes pretend that it is true.

 

Those are the left!!!   They think everything is true.

[Setton]

2 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Those are the left!!!   They think everything is true.

Not you're wrong there.

I don't think any of your posts are true...

[Dreamer screamer]

Just now, Setton said:

Not you're wrong there.

I don't think any of your posts are true...

If I am a lefty, you must be an alien

[Setton]

Just now, Dreamer screamer said:

If I am a lefty, you must be an alien

I think you need English lessons...

[Dreamer screamer]

8 minutes ago, Setton said:

I think you need English lessons...

I fink u r abbzolootlee rong

[L.A.T.1961]

The EU also attend G7, G10 meetings which they are not strictly entitled to as a trade body, but are allowed in through a side door. 

Perhaps the UK should lodge a protest on this point also.  

If the EU feel they have a right to these privilege's and treated as a nation state then let the French give up their UN position and give it to the block, no, thought not.    

The EU does not qualify for voting rights at the UN as they are not a country.

https://www.dw.com/en/france-rejects-german-wish-for-eu-seat-at-un-security-council/a-46513931

 

[Duke Wellington]

9 hours ago, keithisco said:

Source: BBC

I can imagine the cabinet in Downing Street getting some pleasure from telling the EU it cannot have a diplomat here.

And hoping it gives them a headache back after the last 4 years lol.

[Dreamer screamer]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

I can imagine the cabinet in Downing Street getting some pleasure from telling the EU it cannot have a diplomat here.

And hoping it gives them a headache back after the last 4 years lol.

You are joking, everyone in downing street wanted to remain with the EU. 

[godnodog]

and if all remaining EU countries stated that any issue between the EU and the UK must go through the EU embassador then there isn't much the UK can do but go through the correct diplomatic channels regardless of their interpretation.

[godnodog]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:58 AM, keithisco said:

The main argument that the EU is basing this demand on is The Lisbon Treaty (signed by UK) where such privilege is stated. The EU fails to understand that the Lisbon Treaty is now defunct and has no standing in UK Law.

The Vienna Convention does not apply to International Organisations, only Nation States whereby Ambassadors are capable of recall by directly Elected Governments, which the EU Commission is not

the Lisbon treaty is very much alive, it just has one less signatory member. by your logic the EU should no longer exist because the UK left.

Also countries can assign external entities to do their representation. Liechtenstein does this with Switzerland.

Edited January 22, 2021 by godnodog

[stevewinn]

3 hours ago, godnodog said:

and if all remaining EU countries stated that any issue between the EU and the UK must go through the EU embassador then there isn't much the UK can do but go through the correct diplomatic channels regardless of their interpretation.

but still wont have diplomatic status in the UK. so doesn't solve the problem. oh dear how sad, never mind.

[godnodog]

2 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

but still wont have diplomatic status in the UK. so doesn't solve the problem. oh dear how sad, never mind.

yeah, you keep it up UK, there is still more distance to the bottom 

[L.A.T.1961]

3 hours ago, godnodog said:

and if all remaining EU countries stated that any issue between the EU and the UK must go through the EU embassador then there isn't much the UK can do but go through the correct diplomatic channels regardless of their interpretation.

If the EU want to organize themselves to do that its fair enough, but they would have to give up all individual embassy's. So no French or Germany diplomatic presence in UK, or anybody else, as all would be handled by EU's main official office.

Either the EU stick with the multiple embassies in the UK or an EU one, they cannot have both as that looks like cherry picking and we know how upset Brussels get about cherry picking.     

[godnodog]

25 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

If the EU want to organize themselves to do that its fair enough, but they would have to give up all individual embassy's. So no French or Germany diplomatic presence in UK, or anybody else, as all would be handled by EU's main official office.

Either the EU stick with the multiple embassies in the UK or an EU one, they cannot have both as that looks like cherry picking and we know how upset Brussels get about cherry picking.     

In case you haven't notice the EU is composed with sovereign nations, how they wish to be represented on several issues is up to them, not to the UK to determine it or complain about it. But I have no problem with the UK position, for me it is a legitimate one.

[Tatetopa]

Sorry, being across the pond, I am missing some of the nuances of this.  How do treaties and trade agreements get ratified between the UK and member nations of the   EU?

[godnodog]

 

7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Sorry, being across the pond, I am missing some of the nuances of this.  How do treaties and trade agreements get ratified between the UK and member nations of the   EU?

For trade negotiations, the UK and the EU do the treaties, but its up to the EU parliament to approve it, and if not mistaken national parliaments also have to approve it, the UK parliament also has to approved it.
There are areas where the EU does not represent EU members, for example Portugal has special treatment for VISA travelors with brasilian nationality, but these clauses stop at the border, a brasilian citizen cannot claim these special benefits in other EU country.

Edited January 22, 2021 by godnodog

[L.A.T.1961]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

Sorry, being across the pond, I am missing some of the nuances of this.  How do treaties and trade agreements get ratified between the UK and member nations of the   EU?

EU member nations have agreed a joint approach to trade and follow the same rules, more or less, and the EU/Brussels do any negotiations with third parties. As they have done with UK. 

Any agreements are then ratified by member states and used by the block. As the new agreements are set up by member states the final OK is, in theory, quite straightforward and rubber stamped by EU parliament. 

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

EU member nations have agreed a joint approach to trade and follow the same rules, more or less, and the EU/Brussels do any negotiations with third parties. As they have done with UK. 

Any agreements are then ratified by member states and used by the block. As the new agreements are set up by member states the final OK is, in theory, quite straightforward and rubber stamped by EU parliament. 

the caveat i'd like to add is, for our American friend  - when the EU President/Commission signs the deal, the commission then provisionally applies it before EU members/parliment ratify it. but this ratification can take years.

Take CETA the Canadian - EU trade deal, provisionally applied in 2017. and still not ratified in 2021 - only 15 out of the 27 have so far ratified the deal. 

The UK in comparison since leaving the EU - the UK in 24 months has secured and ratified 63 trade deals around the world. and has another 4 Free Trade Agreement negotiations ongoing.

Its taken four years worth of negotiations with the EU - which isn't ratified yet.

This demonstrates ineptness of the EU in a world that's fast ever-changing. the UK displaying its fleet of foot, with trade deals and look no further than the Covid vaccine, negotiated and concluded vaccine deals with lightning speed. the EU in the slow lane.

perfidious Albion. take us on at your peril EU.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by stevewinn

[L.A.T.1961]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

the caveat i'd like to add is, for our American friend  - when the EU President/Commission signs the deal, the commission then provisionally applies it before EU members/parliment ratify it. but this ratification can take years.

Take CETA the Canadian - EU trade deal, provisionally applied in 2017. and still not ratified in 2021 - only 15 out of the 27 have so far ratified the deal. 

The UK in comparison since leaving the EU - the UK in 24 months has secured and ratified 63 trade deals around the world. and has another 4 Free Trade Agreement negotiations ongoing.

Its taken four years worth of negotiations with the EU - which isn't ratified yet.

This demonstrates ineptness of the EU in a world that's fast ever-changing. the UK displaying its fleet of foot, with trade deals and look no further than the Covid vaccine, negotiated and concluded vaccine deals with lightning speed. the EU in the slow lane.

perfidious Albion. take us on at your peril EU.

 

 

Yes, I can see at some point that Brussels will take on more powers of negotiation going forward, at the expense of individual nations (not Germany or France) having a reasonable say in the eventual deal. 

The EU has the same problem with the Mercosur trade deal, negotiations have taken twenty years and still no deal as the French don't like the cars for cows compromise.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-countries-corner-macron-on-mercosur-trade-deal/

 

 

[godnodog]

5 hours ago, stevewinn said:

the caveat i'd like to add is, for our American friend  - when the EU President/Commission signs the deal, the commission then provisionally applies it before EU members/parliment ratify it. but this ratification can take years.

Take CETA the Canadian - EU trade deal, provisionally applied in 2017. and still not ratified in 2021 - only 15 out of the 27 have so far ratified the deal. 

The UK in comparison since leaving the EU - the UK in 24 months has secured and ratified 63 trade deals around the world. and has another 4 Free Trade Agreement negotiations ongoing.

Its taken four years worth of negotiations with the EU - which isn't ratified yet.

This demonstrates ineptness of the EU in a world that's fast ever-changing. the UK displaying its fleet of foot, with trade deals and look no further than the Covid vaccine, negotiated and concluded vaccine deals with lightning speed. the EU in the slow lane.

perfidious Albion. take us on at your peril EU.

 

 

you make a very good point, and its something that everyone knows, and discusses, but ultimately it envolves aspects of sovereignty that people are not yet ready to compromise, but ultimately they'll have make a decision, and so far it as been going in the direction of further integration by combining efforts, compromising in some aspects in order to achieve common goals. the brexit deal is an example on how a joint position in regards to negotiation, as the UK government expected to explore cracks in the block, personally I too did expected to see these cracks even if in the form of somewhat not so silent rumours, but it ended up not to be the case.

The UK had a really good strong position within the EU, despite being highly sceptical,  and thought its now free to do deals around the world, its not on the same level of negotiation as it was when within the EU, its a matter of size.