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OverSword

29 Dead Elderly After Receiving PfizerVaccine

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rashore
48 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Because you have a baseless distrust in it.

I don't know about baseless. I too am waiting a bit if I can. I have some health issues and my doc visit isn't till later this year so I'm holding off for now to see how things progress with the vaccine and what my doc wants to do when I next go in. I also have a history with bad reaction to flu vaccine, so seasonal vaccines make me a bit leery in general. I'm too young and in ways too healthy to be on the list for a while anyway. 

And then since rolling out there's been just enough glitches like this and such that I'm leery of a new vaccine in general. I know it's been fast tracked through the system and that might be OK for safety for a lot of people, but it hasn't been tested extensively enough across the board. That gives me pause too. 

I do also know a goodly handful of medical professionals that have been through their rounds of shots just fine. And there are a lot of reports of shots going out without reports of problems. 

So I don't think it's baseless fear that makes some of us want to hold off and see how this new vaccine goes before getting it ourselves. 

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toast

Have just the checked the Germany figures related to deaths of vaccinated people of an age 80+: up until 17 January ca. 550K persons of that age group and eldery people living in nursing homes were vaccinated, 21 of them died within 1 hour to 14 days after receiving the jab (I have no informatin yet what vaccine). The Paul-Ehrlich-Institut is investigating the issue. 

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OverSword
1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Also, it already has been tested.

In other circumstances vaccine testing takes 10 to 15 years.  Why?  To see what the long term effects are.  If you think they do that because there are never long term effects think again.

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OverSword
55 minutes ago, toast said:

Full statement of the Norwegian Medicines Agency here.

It won't load.  What is their statement?

Edited by OverSword

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Xeno-Fish

I really don't know when being cautious about something was a bad thing. Apparently it is.

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Meridian O
16 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So Xeno, why don't you want to take the vaccine??? Hmm...let me think.

;)

*snip*

Edited by Saru
Removed unsourced article - please always include a source link when quoting offsite text and only quote a small portion of it.
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toast
59 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It won't load.  What is their statement?

Try this and select the first article.

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OverSword
5 minutes ago, toast said:

Try this and select the first article.

Nope.  I think my firewall doesn't like that site

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Xeno-Fish
47 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Nope.  I think my firewall doesn't like that site

Reported suspected adverse reactions of covid-19 vaccines

The Norwegian Medicines Agency is transparent about reports of suspected adverse reactions during covid-19 vaccination and publishes weekly updates. These updates provide an overview of reported suspected adverse events after vaccination in Norway.

All reports of suspected adverse drug reactions, regardless of whether they are reported by healthcare professionals or patients or received from vaccine manufacturers, end up in the Norwegian ADR Registry.

The weekly updates summarize all suspected adverse reactions that have been assessed and processed.

The adverse reaction reports are assessed on a continuous basis. Reports of suspected serious adverse reactions are prioritized for assessment. The weekly updates will therefore give a skewed picture of the distribution between serious and nonserious reports.

The adverse reaction statistics for the different covid-19 vaccines are not directly comparable because they have not been used in the covid vaccination program for the same length of time, and because the vaccines are administered to different numbers of people and to different age groups.

Adverse reactions are reported on suspicion and the reports describe events that have occurred after vaccination. Even though an event has been reported, this does not necessarily imply that a causal relationship has been established between the event and the vaccines. The known adverse reactions of the vaccines are listed in the product information.

Status as of January 21:

Number of persons vaccinated (first dose)

71,971

Reported suspected adverse reactions

292

Assessed suspected adverse reactions

104

 

Weekly adverse reaction reports:

January 21, 2021

January 14, 2021

Quote

Note to mods. The above text is from the site that Toast has posted.

 

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Nuclear Wessel
6 hours ago, rashore said:

I don't know about baseless. I too am waiting a bit if I can. I have some health issues and my doc visit isn't till later this year so I'm holding off for now to see how things progress with the vaccine and what my doc wants to do when I next go in. I also have a history with bad reaction to flu vaccine, so seasonal vaccines make me a bit leery in general. I'm too young and in ways too healthy to be on the list for a while anyway. 

If you have a genuine history of bad reaction to flu vaccine, then you have a valid reason for holding off on it, at least until you consult with your doctor.

This seems to have more to do with your history of bad reactions and less than simply "waiting to see how it plays out".

Quote

And then since rolling out there's been just enough glitches like this and such that I'm leery of a new vaccine in general. 

What glitches are you referring to? There haven't been any "glitches" that I am aware of. These 29 deaths have not been conclusively linked to the vaccine, as they were in a sub-population of both "elderly and frail", if that's what you're referring to.

Quote

I do also know a goodly handful of medical professionals that have been through their rounds of shots just fine. And there are a lot of reports of shots going out without reports of problems. 

Such as? I see no evidence of any "reports of problems" that extend beyond what is typical of other vaccines.

Quote

So I don't think it's baseless fear that makes some of us want to hold off and see how this new vaccine goes before getting it ourselves. 

I'd wager that most of it is.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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Nuclear Wessel
On 1/23/2021 at 12:38 AM, XenoFish said:

Reported suspected adverse reactions of covid-19 vaccines

The Norwegian Medicines Agency is transparent about reports of suspected adverse reactions during covid-19 vaccination and publishes weekly updates. These updates provide an overview of reported suspected adverse events after vaccination in Norway.

All reports of suspected adverse drug reactions, regardless of whether they are reported by healthcare professionals or patients or received from vaccine manufacturers, end up in the Norwegian ADR Registry.

The weekly updates summarize all suspected adverse reactions that have been assessed and processed.

The adverse reaction reports are assessed on a continuous basis. Reports of suspected serious adverse reactions are prioritized for assessment. The weekly updates will therefore give a skewed picture of the distribution between serious and nonserious reports.

The adverse reaction statistics for the different covid-19 vaccines are not directly comparable because they have not been used in the covid vaccination program for the same length of time, and because the vaccines are administered to different numbers of people and to different age groups.

Adverse reactions are reported ON SUSPICION and the reports describe events that have occurred after vaccination. Even though an event has been reported, this does not necessarily imply that a causal relationship has been established between the event and the vaccines. The known adverse reactions of the vaccines are listed in the product information.

Status as of January 21:

Number of persons vaccinated (first dose)

71,971

Reported suspected adverse reactions

292

Assessed suspected adverse reactions

104

 

Weekly adverse reaction reports:

January 21, 2021

January 14, 2021

 

The underlined is particularly noteworthy.

Edited by Saru
Reduced text size of quoted text.
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stereologist
4 hours ago, Meridian O said:

;)

**snipped copyright violation **

 

You've posted from an unreliable politically biased source.

 

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Nuclear Wessel
6 hours ago, toast said:

Have just the checked the Germany figures related to deaths of vaccinated people of an age 80+: up until 17 January ca. 550K persons of that age group and eldery people living in nursing homes were vaccinated, 21 of them died within 1 hour to 14 days after receiving the jab (I have no informatin yet what vaccine). The Paul-Ehrlich-Institut is investigating the issue. 

Not directing this to you specifically, rather a general address:

It's important to note that 21 people dying post vaccination (1 hour to 14 days) does not imply a causal link between the vaccine itself and the death.

They were already knocking on death's door with their age.

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toast
5 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Not directing this to you specifically, rather a general address:

It's important to note that 21 people dying post vaccination (1 hour to 14 days) does not imply a causal link between the vaccine itself and the death.

They were already knocking on death's door with their age.

Yeah, I know.

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toast
10 hours ago, Meridian O said:

In the development of vaccines against coronaviruses ......

A lot of text but without sources its unusable.

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Meridian O
24 minutes ago, toast said:

A lot of text but without sources its unusable.

Yes, unfortunately I didn't save the source. I've had that information for weeks and never intended to share it but I couldn't help myself here today...:(  My bad for caring! 

Edited by Meridian O

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rashore
8 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

If you have a genuine history of bad reaction to flu vaccine, then you have a valid reason for holding off on it, at least until you consult with your doctor.

This seems to have more to do with your history of bad reactions and less than simply "waiting to see how it plays out".

What glitches are you referring to? There haven't been any "glitches" that I am aware of. These 29 deaths have not been conclusively linked to the vaccine, as they were in a sub-population of both "elderly and frail", if that's what you're referring to.

Such as? I see no evidence of any "reports of problems" that extend beyond what is typical of other vaccines.

I'd wager that most of it is.

I’m waiting to see how it plays out because of my medical history, and am going to go with medical advice when I go into the doc.

Glitches like this one, overfilled vials, temp abuse like in Wi, reports of allergic reactions- most vaccines don’t roll out completely trouble free, so I don’t find this too worrisome, But like with most other vaccine roll outs, it makes me want to pause for a bit to see how it plays out.

And I said there are also reports of shots given without reports of problems, so there isn’t a Such as like you quoted-that was a reading error on your part.

 

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stereologist
5 hours ago, Meridian O said:

Yes, unfortunately I didn't save the source. I've had that information for weeks and never intended to share it but I couldn't help myself here today...:(  My bad for caring! 

The first line of the text can be placed in a search engine to find the source.

It is immediately apparent that the material you posted is political in nature and does not follow the evidence, i.e. it is untrustable.

Vaccines in general are potent medicine. They are designed to elicit a response, a strong response. The side effects such as tenderness at the injection point, to discomfort and pain, and so forth show that the medicine is potent. It is turning on your immune system which is what is desired. Think of it this way. If you were to be infected wouldn't you expect the infection site to be tender, sore, even possibly painful? I certainly would hope that if I were infected it would be known to me, that my body would warn me of the infection. The vaccine causes the immune system to see the vaccine as trouble. That trouble is identified by the immune system as an invader and treated as an infection. That way when the real infectious agent shows up the body is ready to deal with the pathogen.

Vaccines need to be tested. They are meant to elicit a strong response. Even today the sort of problem that happened with the RSV effort can still happen today. But as we have seen, the current testing involved many more people than before.

Let's consider that the material you posted had this to say: " unique safety problem of coronavirus vaccines " They claim it was stated by Hotez in Congress and that he was referring to the RSV effort. Can't find that anyplace but the copy and paste of untrustable political sources. There appear to be no legitimate sources reporting this. To me that mean that someone wrote a fake story and no one has bothered to vet it likely because it fits their political agenda.

What sort of things does Hotez have to say. And he was correct, sadly he was on the mark.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-11-16/vaccine-expert-peter-hotez-on-coronavirus-the-worst-may-still-be-yet-to-come

Quote

Combating the virus is a topic that Hotez said can make him emotional "because I feel it's so important." Citing a model from the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, Hotez said that more than 150,000 more Americans could "needlessly" die from the virus in the coming weeks and months.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/deep-dive-texas/baylor-college-of-medicine-houston-developed-coronavirus-vaccine-for-who-gavi-cepi-covax-distribution/269-6973103a-ae27-4da6-94c1-8313f5759d42

Quote

Inside the halls of Baylor College of Medicine Houston, Dr. Peter Hotez and his team rush to finalize work they started in 2011.

“We adopted a coronavirus vaccine program about a decade ago because it was in dire straits. Nobody cared about coronavirus,” Dr. Hotez, M.D., Ph.D., Dean for the National School of Tropical Medicine Baylor College of Medicine Houston, said.

Hotez is providing a vaccine for people. The story that you linked to and has been copied and pasted does not seem to have any truth to it. It looks to be based on a misrepresentation.

 

So when we look at the article we see that it was written by Weiler and Kennedy. Kennedy is a well known crank that is a rabid anti-vaxxer and well known not to be truthful. The other person, Weiler, is known for his terrible claims as point out here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144200/

Quote

In conclusion, we found the so-called unique sequence (1387 bp) in the SARS-CoV-2 spike gene was widely available in coronavirus from natural source, opposite to what James Lyons-Weiler had claimed. The pShuttle-SN plasmid contained a fragment from the spike gene of SARS-nCoV, which caused the similarity match between it and the SARS-CoV-2 spike gene sequence. We call upon Dr James Lyons-Weiler to take his responsibility to make a public correction to his un-supported claim.

And this fact check - notice that he has been posting rubbish for a long time. This is a fact check from January a year ago.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/viral-video-makes-false-and-unsupported-claims-about-vaccines/

Quote

The study is co-authored by James Lyons-Weiler and Paul Thomas, and funded by The Institute for Pure and Applied Knowledge, a nonprofit directed by Lyons-Weiler, a scientist who has been spreading misleading information on COVID-19 and vaccines for years. 

These authors are cranks. They have been cranks for years. Check this link to  learn that Weiler is not a medical researcher. He has no background in the nonsense he spouts.

https://www.facebook.com/JamesLyingWeiner/

Consider this discussion of Weiler's crank stories

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/11/15/vaccine-injury-epidemic-vie-antivaxers/

Quote

He was once a legitimate science, but he laid down so much misinformation that it made me sad. Seriously, he invoked the hoariest antivaccine trope of all: If we don’t know what causes autism, the “epidemic” of chronic illness, and multiple sclerosis, it must mean that vaccines can cause it, all while regurgitating the CDC whistleblower conspiracy theory and antivaccine distortions of various studies that failed to find a link between vaccines and autism. He made the ludicrous claim that children born today will spend 70% of the days of their first seven years in “aluminum toxicity,” touting his own “scientific results” (which, not surprisingly, has never been published in the peer-reviewed medical literature as far as I know).

In the next paragraph there is a lit of all of the falsehoods spouted by this crank.

 

 

 

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Meridian O
6 hours ago, stereologist said:

The first line of the text can be placed in a search engine to find the source.

It is immediately apparent that the material you posted is political in nature and does not follow the evidence, i.e. it is untrustable.

Vaccines in general are potent medicine. They are designed to elicit a response, a strong response. The side effects such as tenderness at the injection point, to discomfort and pain, and so forth show that the medicine is potent. It is turning on your immune system which is what is desired. Think of it this way. If you were to be infected wouldn't you expect the infection site to be tender, sore, even possibly painful? I certainly would hope that if I were infected it would be known to me, that my body would warn me of the infection. The vaccine causes the immune system to see the vaccine as trouble. That trouble is identified by the immune system as an invader and treated as an infection. That way when the real infectious agent shows up the body is ready to deal with the pathogen.

Vaccines need to be tested. They are meant to elicit a strong response. Even today the sort of problem that happened with the RSV effort can still happen today. But as we have seen, the current testing involved many more people than before.

Let's consider that the material you posted had this to say: " unique safety problem of coronavirus vaccines " They claim it was stated by Hotez in Congress and that he was referring to the RSV effort. Can't find that anyplace but the copy and paste of untrustable political sources. There appear to be no legitimate sources reporting this. To me that mean that someone wrote a fake story and no one has bothered to vet it likely because it fits their political agenda.

What sort of things does Hotez have to say. And he was correct, sadly he was on the mark.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-11-16/vaccine-expert-peter-hotez-on-coronavirus-the-worst-may-still-be-yet-to-come

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/deep-dive-texas/baylor-college-of-medicine-houston-developed-coronavirus-vaccine-for-who-gavi-cepi-covax-distribution/269-6973103a-ae27-4da6-94c1-8313f5759d42

Hotez is providing a vaccine for people. The story that you linked to and has been copied and pasted does not seem to have any truth to it. It looks to be based on a misrepresentation.

 

So when we look at the article we see that it was written by Weiler and Kennedy. Kennedy is a well known crank that is a rabid anti-vaxxer and well known not to be truthful. The other person, Weiler, is known for his terrible claims as point out here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7144200/

And this fact check - notice that he has been posting rubbish for a long time. This is a fact check from January a year ago.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/viral-video-makes-false-and-unsupported-claims-about-vaccines/

These authors are cranks. They have been cranks for years. Check this link to  learn that Weiler is not a medical researcher. He has no background in the nonsense he spouts.

https://www.facebook.com/JamesLyingWeiner/

Consider this discussion of Weiler's crank stories

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/11/15/vaccine-injury-epidemic-vie-antivaxers/

In the next paragraph there is a lit of all of the falsehoods spouted by this crank.

 

 

 

Damn! It appeared to be legit considering that the Covid-19 Vaccine (animal tests) symptom's were matching the "accepted" media reports regarding multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children plus the many, many other symptoms listed in the report. Albeit the covid symptoms via the accepted media are about children who have already suffered the infection. Colorado saw record numbers of mysterious COVID-linked inflammatory syndrome in children last month | Leading Medical Professionals | gazette.com

However! Although you stated that the Weiler story is a falsehood. I'd say that bullying people into accepting a vaccine is wrong.   

Edited by Meridian O

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susieice
On 1/22/2021 at 5:10 PM, toast said:

Have just the checked the Germany figures related to deaths of vaccinated people of an age 80+: up until 17 January ca. 550K persons of that age group and eldery people living in nursing homes were vaccinated, 21 of them died within 1 hour to 14 days after receiving the jab (I have no informatin yet what vaccine). The Paul-Ehrlich-Institut is investigating the issue. 

I just found this. Germany is probing the deaths of 10 people who died shortly after getting the Pfizer vaccine. They range in age from 79 to 93 and all had health issues.

https://in.news.yahoo.com/german-specialists-probing-10-deaths-232925067.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFw1aLHN94FSmLURkz-6tbrEmYOAvSMRtQ_31mgWJcPgDNLB3WxcrN_GRSrZQv5AK-QK4wqnndYW6n3bN_ZxXxvRmlKbKSFSs9ZGuk29UmkDl4gJNoFN--hMsdufiy2-UREPXQCGFPE-Qf8JbIZwCTblDe-SzdChjHFiwXBaYEOG

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stereologist
14 minutes ago, Meridian O said:

Damn! It appeared to be legit considering that the Covid-19 Vaccine (animal tests) symptom's were matching the "accepted" media reports regarding multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children plus the many, many other symptoms listed in the report. Albeit the covid symptoms via the accepted media are about children who have already suffered the infection. Colorado saw record numbers of mysterious COVID-linked inflammatory syndrome in children last month | Leading Medical Professionals | gazette.com

The two people that wrote that opinion piece, and it is clearly labeled opinion, have no medical training at all. They try to feign some legitimacy in their posting, but notice that they make a huge leap in the article.

The issues you raise here are pre-vaccine issues. They tell  us that this is a dangerous disease. Death is only one outcome. Survivors can have many problems and it looks like the problems will be with them the rest of their lives such as reduced lung capacity.

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Meridian O
4 hours ago, stereologist said:

The two people that wrote that opinion piece, and it is clearly labeled opinion, have no medical training at all. They try to feign some legitimacy in their posting, but notice that they make a huge leap in the article.

The issues you raise here are pre-vaccine issues. They tell  us that this is a dangerous disease. Death is only one outcome. Survivors can have many problems and it looks like the problems will be with them the rest of their lives such as reduced lung capacity.

So what are your thoughts about Dr Lee Merit regarding Covid & the vaccine

Dr Lee Merrit Interview - YouTube

 

Edited by Meridian O

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Mr.United_Nations

Again that's her opinion, she even  says it

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Eldorado

A California resident who was vaccinated against COVID-19 died just hours later — and authorities are trying to find out why.

The Placer County Sheriff’s Office announced the death and the investigation Saturday in a Facebook post, but gave few details.

nypost

MSN

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