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jmccr8

[Believers] Is religion still relevant ?

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jmccr8

We see a lot of turmoil in the world today can religious perspectives overcome the divisions that exist or do we need to evolve past personal beliefs to give everyone a decent life and move past the conflict?

In this thread if you are a skeptic you must respond in the skeptics thread and not in this one. If you post in a thread and are not a believer I will ask you to go to the other thread and ask for your post to be removed from his one.

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XenoFish

Well, I'm the odd person to be doing this. So let's see what kind of "trouble" I can get into.

Depending on the religion, will determine the benefits. Off the top of my head I will say hope is one perk. A form of optimism which can be uplifting in troubling times. Meaning and purpose as well, along with some type of moral guide. Again it depends on the belief system. A greater sense of community as well, I suppose. Said community can act as a support group.

https://mindmatters.ai/2021/01/can-religion-improve-a-persons-mental-health/

Expressing one's grievances and desires through prayer might be a means of releasing inner turmoil or subconscious instilling motivation (with god all things are possible;)).

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jmccr8

Just so there is no confusion I will be posting in the other thread and reading here as well as directing people to the appropriate thread and will not be participating as a poster in this thread.

jmccr8

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papageorge1

As a follower in Advaita philosophy (non-dual=God and creation are not-two Hinduism). I guess I'm in the 'believers' camp but I'm not clear on the definition of religion in the 21st Century.

36 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

We see a lot of turmoil in the world today can religious perspectives overcome the divisions that exist or do we need to evolve past personal beliefs to give everyone a decent life and move past the conflict?

I would say any respectable religious or atheist-humanist philosophy should allow us to get past the problems of today. The problem is people not really following their respectable philosophy. 

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Will Do

 

Nothing is as relevant in life as TRUE RELIGION.

 

 

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Dreamer screamer

Religion is so relevant today more than ever.  Why do parliamentary members have to swear an OATH to GOD?    If they walked in and didn't have to swear an OATH to no thing, then they can do ANYTHING!  So there has to be some rule of law under GOD to stop corruption?

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Hammerclaw

Religion is an integral part of the history of my people, of my family and of my life. So, from that perspective, it is quite relevant. It defines who, what and how I am. It is relevant in the larger sense because so many people, to varying degrees, hold onto and express belief, Hindus, Christians, Moslems and Jews and all other Faiths, great and small. Religion is Belief in something for which there is no certain knowledge; it is, indeed, a cognitive leap of Faith. 

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Will Do

 

In the other thread, they're saying believers aren't discussing in this thread their thoughts with each other.

:D

Gee, I wonder why :tu:

Over here, the Spirit does the talking for us and between us without us talking to each other. It's no mystery. To them over there, that should be obvious by now.

Over here, we all know that each of us are generally experiencing the very same things spiritually. Just in different ways. So it becomes us to not waste any time trying to describe to each other these things that we know everyone (over here) already knows.

But over there, they're very busy having conversations with each other about how they've justified it to themselves, why they won't get in the river, while those of us over here float on by on our inner tubes, cold drink in hand, watching them in astonishment wondering how they've become so distracted in life to keep it all up, staying on the shore. 

 

 

Edited by Will Do

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jmccr8
2 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

In the other thread, they're saying believers aren't discussing in this thread their thoughts with each other.

:D

Gee, I wonder why :tu:

Over here, the Spirit does the talking for us and between us without us talking to each other. It's no mystery. To them over there, that should be obvious by now.

Over here, we all know that each of us are generally experiencing the very same things spiritually. Just in different ways. So it becomes us to not waste any time trying to describe to each other these things that we know everyone (over here) already knows.

But over there, they're too busy having conversations with each other about how they've justified it to themselves, why they won't get in the river, while those of us over here float on by on our inner tubes, cold drink in hand, watching them in astonishment wondering how they've become so distracted in life to keep it all up, standing on the shore. 

 

 

Hi Will

You are a believer so you can post in the other thread I will see it because I am following it so any thing you need to say go for it I can't say a word about it, it's duck hunting season and there is no limit.:tu:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
2 minutes ago, joc said:

I don't care.   Do whatever you want.   Belief is relevant to those who believe and it is irrelevant to those who don't.  And all belief is irrelevant to the truth.  So take it for what it's worth.  

Hi Joc

I am not asking anyone to wear a mask or take a vaccine I am asking people to discuss the OP within the context of their religious belief system or no religious belief to see how they inter-act with each other in their groups and it would seem at this point believers are not willing to discuss this with each other because they do not agree with each other and would rather fight with a heaten.

jmccr8

So pick a side or stand aside. nothing personal because no matter what I still like you:tu:

jmccr8

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joc
1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Joc

I am not asking anyone to wear a mask or take a vaccine I am asking people to discuss the OP within the context of their religious belief system or no religious belief to see how they inter-act with each other in their groups and it would seem at this point believers are not willing to discuss this with each other because they do not agree with each other and would rather fight with a heaten.

jmccr8

So pick a side or stand aside. nothing personal because no matter what I still like you:tu:

jmccr8

I'm kind of wolfish that way...I take the road less traveled...always...   see yaaaaaa....;)

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jmccr8

I am going to apologize as I did not realize which thread I was responding to. Do not quote me to discuss with unless it is about a problem with the thread the thread itself follow both threads and make your comments/discussion here I will see them without being quoted.

jmccr8

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Hammerclaw

When on is secure in one's Faith it is not open for discussion, anymore than if one is secure in one's love, that that is open for discussion. It isn't, it just is, no ands, ifs or buts about it. Faith is a personal conclusion, not the gestalt summation of belief by a group.  

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

In the other thread, they're saying believers aren't discussing in this thread their thoughts with each other.

:D

Gee, I wonder why :tu:

Over here, the Spirit does the talking for us and between us without us talking to each other. It's no mystery. To them over there, that should be obvious by now.

Over here, we all know that each of us are generally experiencing the very same things spiritually. Just in different ways. So it becomes us to not waste any time trying to describe to each other these things that we know everyone (over here) already knows.

But over there, they're very busy having conversations with each other about how they've justified it to themselves, why they won't get in the river, while those of us over here float on by on our inner tubes, cold drink in hand, watching them in astonishment wondering how they've become so distracted in life to keep it all up, staying on the shore. 

 

 

Also, as has been pointed out many times, the number of non believers far outweighs that of believers on this forum, so  naturally many more people are contributing to the other thread.

  I  suspect some who might be believers, but not religious, are scared to post in this thread .

Only 7 individuals posting here, of whom probably 3 are a bit ambivalent :)  Almost twice that in the other thread, creating a much larger critical mass, engendering discussion 

I must say, while most people's views were always obvious , a  few have surprised me, in the thread they chose. 

I am neither a believer nor a sceptic. I am agnostic on almost every thing,  until I know.

But i keep an open mind to the possibility of anything, and everything, Ie i discount almost nothing as being impossible.  

Edited by Mr Walker

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Nuclear Wessel
Quote

If you post in a thread and are not a believer I will ask you to go to the other thread and ask for your post to be removed from his one.

 

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jmccr8
42 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

 

:tu:

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jmccr8
57 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

You are a gullible one.

Hi Rlhyeh

Because you are a non-believer anything you see here is not for skeptic discussion in this thread that is what the companion thread is for but you can copy/paste a comment here and post it in the other thread without identifying the posted and just address the comment of interest.

Thanks

jmccr8

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Rlyeh
44 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Rlhyeh

Because you are a non-believer anything you see here is not for skeptic discussion in this thread that is what the companion thread is for but you can copy/paste a comment here and post it in the other thread without identifying the posted and just address the comment of interest.

Thanks

jmccr8

Maybe you shouldn't have placed it in the skeptic forum then?

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Nuclear Wessel
18 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Maybe you shouldn't have placed it in the skeptic forum then?

If you have issues with this then raise them to Saru as he is the one who approved Jay's idea (check the first page of the [Skeptic] version).

This shouldn't really be an issue.

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jmccr8
21 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Maybe you shouldn't have placed it in the skeptic forum then?

Hi Rlyeh

please bring your concerns to the other thread if you read both threads you might get a better understanding and why it is in this section 

jmccr8

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Hammerclaw

When one enters a gathering of believers of disparate Faiths, respectful of that of others, you may expect them to be quiet, pleasant and agreeable. That doesn't mean they accept the beliefs of others, but acknowledge that others hold their own beliefs just as precious. WIthin ourselves and without, in public forum together, in a sense we share the same church and no one laughs in a church service, ever. 

Of course, there's always bad apples who stir up controversy and dissent; no group escapes them. Yet the vast majority of religious are as I depict them above. They won't even mention religion in public except with their own. Except for the aforementioned exceptions they are almost all ordinary, decent and honorable people. This rule holds true, no matter what the Faith. We, believers and unbelievers alike, are all born of flesh, our days number by biology and will all die. Neither believer nor unbeliever spend their every waking hour dwelling on that prospect. We all live life to the full, sharing equally in it's joys and sorrows. Religion acts as a coping mechanism, reconciling us to our mortal fate with the promise of continuance. One of our posters here had a very intimate experience with a dying individual with no such cognitive safety net, who couldn't accept their fate. So, belief does have it's benefits.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Dreamer screamer

If Religion is not relevant today why do we see these common ceremonies in parliament which goes back through history?

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Hammerclaw

From the perspective of a believer reading the other thread, it seems a lot of posters seem fixated on critiquing the believer and not the religion. They think believers are stupid, deluded, ignorant, crazy, brainwashed--anything but ordinary, reasonably intelligent people, like themselves, who made a cognitive choice in life philosophy. That the religious are happy and project an aura of contentment bewilders, even enrages them. They think there just has to be something wrong with them. Some--not all--but some seem unaware of the image they project of themselves as unhappy, broken and shattered people who--by sheer strength of will--managed to put most of the pieces back together, however imperfectly, and got on with their lives, but not particularly happy or contented with their lot. They almost always seem in emotional crisis mode about something. As I said, some, not all.

Edited by Still Waters
Image removed for copyright reasons
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XenoFish

One of the reason religions/spiritual beliefs and experiences can't be well discussed, is because all experiences are subjective. So there is only anecdotes. After thorough consideration I've come to realize that not everyone is a psycho-christian. That some people gain structure, order, meaning, and purpose from it. I reckon that basic Christianity is more about personal faith and becoming a decent human, I do acknowledge that most of it is filler. Which is probably due to the various branches of Christianity. Of course with all belief systems, there are believers and fanatics. I no longer know were I stand. 

In regards to 'miracles' I think a lot of stories are just that. Some I suspect are often greatly exaggerated and this odd standard of "prove it" came about. It seems that a magic genie god is supposed to exist, one that'll regrow arms if prayers are made to it. I don't think it works that way. What I think is that it's all about the inward dynamic. As above, so below. As within, so with-out.  

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Crazy Horse
On 1/27/2021 at 9:17 PM, jmccr8 said:

We see a lot of turmoil in the world today can religious perspectives overcome the divisions that exist or do we need to evolve past personal beliefs to give everyone a decent life and move past the conflict?

In this thread if you are a skeptic you must respond in the skeptics thread and not in this one. If you post in a thread and are not a believer I will ask you to go to the other thread and ask for your post to be removed from his one.

Ones personal beliefs can unite, or divide, the planet and its inhabitants.

Religion means to bind, as in "unite" (that's my perspective anyway) so really, if one isn't made whole within oneself, within ones community, or ultimately with GOD, then to my mind it isn't a religious teaching or practice.

This doesn't always play-out in everyday life, but with ideals such as forgiveness, compassion, kindness and generosity, a life with less conflict does seem possible.

 

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