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ET may be harvesting energy from black holes

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bison

This may explain why we haven't seen any definite signs of Dyson spheres, even though they should be widely detectable, assuming they exist. Getting huge amounts of energy from black holes may be an easier, and an all-around more practical approach for a super-civilization seeking to fulfill its energy requirements. As the article mentions, we don't even know what to look for, as signs of such a black hole power station.  For all we know, they could be all around us, without our knowing it.   

Edited by bison
improved grammar

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moonman

If they are advanced enough to harness an entire natural black hole, they would be advanced enough to create their own smaller, more practical black holes to farm.

That's why I don't buy the whole "dyson sphere" idea. It would be way too much work when they would likely have much more practical ways to generate power at their tech level. Besides, where are they going to get all the raw material needed to make something that big? It would take all the contents of several solar systems to make one.

Edited by moonman
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Abramelin

It's nothing but a phantasy, 'scientific' or not.

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pallidin

A Dyson sphere would be what, constructed of nearly 4-30 times the mass of the Earth?!

Just not practical for any civilization.

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moonman
2 hours ago, pallidin said:

A Dyson sphere would be what, constructed of nearly 4-30 times the mass of the Earth?!

Just not practical for any civilization.

More like thousands of times the mass - probably more like millions of times depending on the size of whatever they are enclosing.

If they did it around a star, they would have to use matter from the star itself. I suppose if you have advanced enough tech that could withstand the star's heat, you could send robots that could farm needed materials out of the star for the sphere and replicate themselves to make it go faster. A single self replicating robot sent into a star could start the whole process, but who knows how many decades/centuries it would take to complete. Just send a few off to selected stars and forget about them for a few hundred years.

Actually not a bad idea now that I think about it.

Edited by moonman
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pallidin
4 minutes ago, moonman said:

More like thousands of times the mass - probably more like millions of times depending on the size of whatever they are enclosing.

If they did it around a sun, they would have to use matter from the sun itself.

Ya...

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Hyperionxvii

First, we have to assume that there are civilizations out there many, many times more technologically advanced than we are. We haven't seen any proof of that, yet. IOW, we haven't detected any alien superstructures. We're going to be getting much more powerful optical instruments sometime in the future after James Webb. Who knows when, it took that one way longer than anticipated, if it even launches in Oct as planned this time.

 

 

 

 

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Hyperionxvii
17 minutes ago, moonman said:

More like thousands of times the mass - maybe millions.

Sounds like a lot of asteroid belt mining. 

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Trelane

I thought it would be riskier and potentially more dangerous to try and harness a black hole's power. What would be needed to keep such a large structure from being pulled into that black hole's gravitational pull?

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moonman
2 hours ago, Trelane said:

I thought it would be riskier and potentially more dangerous to try and harness a black hole's power. What would be needed to keep such a large structure from being pulled into that black hole's gravitational pull?

I assume they think it would be a gargantuan framework surrounding it like a cage. If its strong enough and just far enough away, it could work.

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Hyperionxvii
2 hours ago, Trelane said:

I thought it would be riskier and potentially more dangerous to try and harness a black hole's power. What would be needed to keep such a large structure from being pulled into that black hole's gravitational pull?

Well, that whole thing about nothing being able to escape them, not even light, might limit the proximity of whatever the energy collector is. And apparently some of them have sucked in parts of entire galaxies. It's more dangerous than oil drilling, I would venture. 

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Jon the frog

Maybe starting to go to Mars could be wiser than pushing for pipe dream.

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khol
3 hours ago, Trelane said:

What would be needed to keep such a large structure from being pulled into that black hole's gravitational pull?

Velocity is all thats needed. Black holes are just sources of gravity. Anthing can orbit them if going fast enough

https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/is-it-possible-for-a-planet-to-be-in-orbit-around-a-black-hole/#:~:text=There's no fundamental reason why,if it travels fast enough.

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ercbreeze

Does this mean we will spend more tax payers money to search for this?  ouch.

 

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toast
6 minutes ago, ercbreeze said:

Does this mean we will spend more tax payers money to search for this?  ouch.

What is the cost of this project and what is your personal share?

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onlookerofmayhem
5 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Well, that whole thing about nothing being able to escape them, not even light, might limit the proximity of whatever the energy collector is.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a26008921/scientists-experiments-hawking-radiation/

"We all know black holes theoretically suck in everything, even light, but it’s not technically true that nothing can ever escape them. If that were the case, black holes would violate the laws of thermodynamics. Everything in the universe needs to radiate heat, and black holes are no exception. But exactly how they radiated heat was a bit of a mystery, until Hawking."

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Hyperionxvii
23 minutes ago, ercbreeze said:

Does this mean we will spend more tax payers money to search for this?  ouch.

 

We can be certain that the cost for that is very trivial compared to the trillion dollar+ boondoggles they regularly engage in. 

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razman

Is that what they been doin?

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Poncho_Peanatus
On 1/29/2021 at 12:21 AM, Trelane said:

I thought it would be riskier and potentially more dangerous to try and harness a black hole's power. What would be needed to keep such a large structure from being pulled into that black hole's gravitational pull?

Just fire lasers at it. The right time and the right spot, the laser will bend around the black hole and come back with more energy than it fired.

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jmccr8
6 hours ago, Poncho_Peanatus said:

Just fire lasers at it. The right time and the right spot, the laser will bend around the black hole and come back with more energy than it fired.

Hi Ponch

How would you collect/harness the energy from the laser?

jmccr8

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L.A.T.1961
6 hours ago, Poncho_Peanatus said:

Just fire lasers at it. The right time and the right spot, the laser will bend around the black hole and come back with more energy than it fired.

It would require the ability to collect energy at an efficiency level that is at least as good as creating the beam in the first place.

Black holes are not that common and it might require a long journey to get close enough to make a black hole work to make power. 

It could be that a civilisation with the technology to journey to a black hole does not need it for power?

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Poncho_Peanatus
11 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Ponch

How would you collect/harness the energy from the laser?

jmccr8

I dont know, im not a alien, am I?

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Poncho_Peanatus
10 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It would require the ability to collect energy at an efficiency level that is at least as good as creating the beam in the first place.

Black holes are not that common and it might require a long journey to get close enough to make a black hole work to make power. 

It could be that a civilisation with the technology to journey to a black hole does not need it for power?

IMO if they do, it means these technicalities has already been solved.

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DingoLingo
On 1/29/2021 at 4:05 AM, moonman said:

If they are advanced enough to harness an entire natural black hole, they would be advanced enough to create their own smaller, more practical black holes to farm.

That's why I don't buy the whole "dyson sphere" idea. It would be way too much work when they would likely have much more practical ways to generate power at their tech level. Besides, where are they going to get all the raw material needed to make something that big? It would take all the contents of several solar systems to make one.

the mistake a lot of people make is that a dyson sphere generates power.. it doesnt.. it is meant to capture all the energy escaping the sun :)

Though.. you could do the same job really using a dyson swarm instead.. basically cover a lot of the area around the sun with satellites to capture the solar radiation etc.. and beam it back to the earth using microwaves.. that would throw us into a K2 civilization.. 

 

20 hours ago, Poncho_Peanatus said:

Just fire lasers at it. The right time and the right spot, the laser will bend around the black hole and come back with more energy than it fired.

well.. it wont bend around the black hole.. though it depends on how close you wish to get to the accretion disc .. it would curve around it.. but then you also have the atoms swirling around that disc which would dilute the laser light.. best way would be to harvest the hawking radiation that they burp out.. 

mind you I think you would have more luck harvesting energy of a magnetar .. those things are one bloody big magnetic dynamo  

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