Spiritualism, Secularism, Atheism

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

I'm someone who's interested in discovering the real truth. 

And when I do, I immediately adjust to it.

What's your story?

 

 

I am the voice of one crying in wilderness, listening to you sing the same old song, over and over again, with no substance and no truth in it. If God gave you a light of truth to show the world, why do you conceal it?

[+Hammerclaw]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

My own personal experience in regards to spirituality are different than religion. I hate religion. Spirituality is a feeling, often undefinable. Yet if I actually express my own spiritual views and experience, what repercussion await me. Perhaps I toy with faith now more than I once did because it makes the inner pain go away. Maybe I hope. Maybe I trust that things will go better than they have without expectation. That if there is a god out there in this insane reality, it might take true pity on a wretch like me. But what does such a thing matter. I either walk proudly into a new reality tunnel and accept hyper criticism for being a damn fool or I keep up the expected illusion. 

Because there are moments when I quietly whisper a few words and my personal subjective reality tunnel changes. New things are seen, dare I say hope is found. But I am a damned fool for such spiritual beliefs. Having failed at atheism, failed at theism, and can't hold anything absolute in regards to the some-thingness of life. There is no real ground for me to stand on. So I say my whispered words of hope when I'm alone, in quiet moments and have faith that may-be things will turn out okay. I am uncertain that a god or god like being exist, I do not trust the words of any holy text. If such a thing does exist. I honestly hope it's better than the storybook god/s.

You are not alone, never alone. Even in the darkness night the light of others like candles, illuminates the darkness with the light of a thousand stars, If you wish to see, you must first open your eyes.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I am the voice of one crying in wilderness, listening to you sing the same old song, over and over again, with no substance and no truth in it. If God gave you a light of truth to show the world, why do you conceal it?

 

If God gives you the light of truth then he gives everyone the light of truth.

Yet there are those who will seek to deny it. 

Why is that?

 

 

[Guyver]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Those who are certain about the existence or non-existence of "god" are equally foolish. As we have no real standard for what we need to look for. All that we do have comes from books created by people, wrapped in their own expectations and desires. People will believe whatever they wish to believe because they want to believe in it. If their beliefs harm none, does it even matter?

If their beliefs harm no one, I have no problem with it.

[Guyver]

3 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

If God gives you the light of truth then he gives everyone the light of truth.

Yet there are those who will seek to deny it. 

Why is that?

 

 

Because God is invisible and silent.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You are not alone, never alone. Even in the darkness night the light of others like candles, illuminates the darkness with the light of a thousand stars, If you wish to see, you must first open your eyes.

That's the problem. I have opened my eyes. Which is why I wonder what need is there to attack beliefs that really do no harm and amount nothing in another person's life. I've begun to heavily question my intentions. For years I ripped apart beliefs, why I asked. I was afraid. Afraid to have hope, afraid of having no stability nor control in my life. So I started toying with belief again. My mood shifted. I started to get better. Yet never shaking that demon of despair. And here I am. Engaging in a bit of faith. Finding my life getting better very slowly. Yet I know full well the view of such a mental framework. I can't claim I know for certain. But I do know that sometimes faith, a bit of hope is what people need. Even if it's foolhardy.  

[Will Due]

Just now, Guyver said:

Because God is invisible and silent.

 

He isn't silent at all.

He speaks volumes in how he is reflected in our lives.

And you can see it in the lives of some of the posters right here in this thread.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

13 hours ago, Guyver said:

To answer honestly, I am who I want to be and wouldn’t change a thing.  I wouldn’t wish to have lived less than I have as I value life, so I have no complaints.  Except for one kinda big one.  Things aren’t as I wish them to be.  But, I guess you prolly know what they say about wishes...you can wish in one hand and sssshhh in the other and see which get filled first.  
 

Anyway, things are not as I wish and there is no changing them, so that is a problem for me that I have to deal with.

Accepting reality this is hard to do for anyone. The conflict of what we wish things were and what they actually are causes the discontent. The wishing for is succumbing to the illusion of control. As if we can magically do something about things beyond our control. Often letting go is the hardest part but in doing so the door of change opens up. For me, this is the equivalent of faith or hope, basically changing ones perspective to include a bigger picture. This is also called living mindfully. 
 

Acknowledging reality with grace and seeking solutions coming from the mindset that shifts ones perspective towards being proactive instead of reactive. People (including myself at times) are fighting mock battles that are mental scripts that are basically unhealed aspects of themselves.  A willingness to honor and allow ones humanness is the fast track to self awareness. IMHO

As far as I am concerned you get all this. For me, your ability to be honest with yourself is your greatest strength. 
 

Thank you for sharing your journey. 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

30 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

He isn't silent at all.

He speaks volumes in how he is reflected in our lives.

And you can see it in the lives of some of the posters right here in this thread.

 

 

Can you expand on this?

[Will Due]

Just now, Sherapy said:

Can you expand on this?

 

See post #56

 

 

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

See post #56

 

 

I am interested in your two cents on what you observe.
 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Sherapy

[Will Due]

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I am interested in your two cents on what you observe.
 

 

 

I'm on my way out the door Sheri. I'll reply when I get back.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

You are not alone, never alone. Even in the darkness night the light of others like candles, illuminates the darkness with the light of a thousand stars, If you wish to see, you must first open your eyes.

Exactly, for me actually being alone often having to fend for myself and my sisters at the mercy of an abusive childhood (the reality as a child I had little say or ability to effect much change), but where I could do something, I found the strength needed, for me, life became about surviving, getting the basics for me and my sisters while looking out for my mom too, in the reality of the immense aloneness, resilience and being open to possibility became my guiding lights. 

“Faith sees best in the dark, meaning there is reason to hope and be optimistic too.

Gloria Steinem’s father would tell her after a hardship [that] “tomorrow can always be wonderful too.”
 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

14 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

I'm on my way out the door Sheri. I'll reply when I get back.

 

 

Sounds good.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

That's the problem. I have opened my eyes. Which is why I wonder what need is there to attack beliefs that really do no harm and amount nothing in another person's life. I've begun to heavily question my intentions. For years I ripped apart beliefs, why I asked. I was afraid. Afraid to have hope, afraid of having no stability nor control in my life. So I started toying with belief again. My mood shifted. I started to get better. Yet never shaking that demon of despair. And here I am. Engaging in a bit of faith. Finding my life getting better very slowly. Yet I know full well the view of such a mental framework. I can't claim I know for certain. But I do know that sometimes faith, a bit of hope is what people need. Even if it's foolhardy.  

The only thing we can hope for is to choose to do the best with the time allotted us in life.  whatever is after life won't do us a damn bit of good in the here and now. It's up to us because we're here and nobody else, just us Thinking is hard--that's why so many people judge, instead. You need to stop judging and start thinking instead. No one and no thing, no politician, no priest no religion and no ideology is going to do it for you. Some people hate free will and want someone to drive the car for them. Yet, in the end, we're all in the driver's seat, with no one else to hold accountable if we go off the road.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Will Do said:

 

If God gives you the light of truth then he gives everyone the light of truth.

Yet there are those who will seek to deny it. 

Why is that?

 

 

The only light of truth is the one you light for yourself, Will--you don't get it for free. Truth isn't just a word, Will. It's just a lie if you can't explain it to anyone else.

[XenoFish]

16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

with no one else to hold accountable if we go off the road.

Did going "off road" cost you about $60,000? All because you made one choice and that choice was trust? So a greedy piece of horse feces takes nearly everything from you and still cost you to try and get it back to no avail. One choice and one person, nearly killed my wife. All because I didn't trust my gut. I lost a lot of money, money that might have help catch her cancer faster. Money that might have helped me build a home. Money that could've gone towards me retiring earlier. One choice is all it takes to **** up your life and bear the guilt of what you've done. A choice made when every instinct said "NO". I ruined not only my life but the lives of others. I often wonder if god is just watching me. I asked during those desperate times for help. The court case went better than expected, though I still "lost". Did god help me make it through all this? When I ate myself alive. All that anger and hatred. Faith and trust lost. Guilt and fear. One choice. And on that day a few years ago with that cold gun in my hand, I didn't pull the trigger, was god there to stop me? I don't know. So I am afraid of people, I am afraid to trust them, I am afraid to trust a god that I feel abandoned me. All my faith lost and even now fragile. I can admit I am weak, stupid, powerless. I can admit that. I fought hard with myself for years. My wife is fine now. My life is getting better. Had the best 4 years business wise. Built a small cabin. Sometimes I wonder why Job was my favorite story. I guess it taught me that no matter how horrible life gets keep going. Do I believe in god. Don't know. But may-be some part of me hopes. Though foolish it might be. Maybe I want to hope again. I could be one of those fools who needs it. All irrational, illogical, primitive and stupid, but if it helps so be it.

 

[XenoFish]

I saw the hypocrisy in the churches I went too. Back when I was christian. They were more interested in greed and control. I felt that the basic idea of being a christian was to become a better person. Not lord it over people by having a moral superiority complex. But to simply be there. Any kindness that is done should be done because you wanted to do it. Without expectation of rewards. The only prayers I ever had answered were always directed as questions, "How can I" "what do I need to do", not the magic genie god. So regrowing arms or walking on water. Never seen a miracle before. So I don't get a mindset of perpetual forgiveness. I don't understand the need to validate a personal belief to anyone. And it could be the reason I've kind of soften a bit towards the believers. Though I see some are just snakes in the grass. Thinking they know more than they really do. All to present the illusion of spiritual enlightenment. Life is hell and I figure we're supposed to create a slice of heaven in it while it last. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by XenoFish

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

The only thing we can hope for is to choose to do the best with the time allotted us in life.  whatever is after life won't do us a damn bit of good in the here and now. It's up to us because we're here and nobody else, just us Thinking is hard--that's why so many people judge, instead. You need to stop judging and start thinking instead. No one and no thing, no politician, no priest no religion and no ideology is going to do it for you. Some people hate free will and want someone to drive the car for them. Yet, in the end, we're all in the driver's seat, with no one else to hold accountable if we go off the road.

And, we will go off the road sometimes in life, for me this is the point of grace. Look at what can be refined then, fix it, then let the rest go. For me, remorse is doing what it takes to make things right once and for all. I call this standing corrected, not repeating the same behaviors over and over.  Do no harm includes the way we treat ourselves too. 
 

My grandfather used to say “okay so you f’ed up, made a mistake, now fix it. Meaning do not make the same mistake twice. Learn the first time. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Sherapy

[Crazy Horse]

18 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

This an open discussion about the significance and impact of the choices we make of life philosophies, religions and spiritualism and their impact on each of our personal lives. What our choices mean to us, personally, how they color and compliment our existence. Why we each think our own choices are best for us. One may expect widely divergent viewpoints, deviating sharply from others, at times. This is meant to be an eclectic thread, not just for any particular viewpoint, open to all spiritual and secular, as not all all life philosophies are necessarily religious or spiritual. I ask that we be kind to one another and withhold harsh criticisms and judgment. All are welcome here.

My spiritual faith and beliefs are based on personal knowledge and experience, and therefore colour everything that I do.

It is a Spiritual Philosophy of Life.

And so, it is not so much that I think it is best for me, more a deep knowing. An understanding often gleaned through harsh lessons.

And yet my beliefs are anything but stagnant, they are constantly being refined or newly realised. 

[+Desertrat56]

4 hours ago, lightly said:

I cannot express my belief without sounding ridiculous...but , I just have this KNOWING that there is something all inclusive about the Existence..and Being of Everything.  The universe is not some purely mechanical and therefore, DEAD thing.   That's about all I know.   I don't see God as the old man in the sky God of my youth..I see God as EVERYTHING. ( I told you it sounds ridiculous..when put into words). But in my heart/being..it is as obvious as the sun in the sky.   .    

 

I think you said it well, as I also feel that way.  There is no judgmental being sitting around decreeing humans must...  or deciding who belongs to it and who doesn't (because that really is what judaic religions are about, who belongs and who doesn't, what rules the deity insists on - that no two people can agree on, etc.)  Existence is inclusive and I have had that Knowing as well since I can remember.  I consider myself an atheist because I am not on the fence about whether there is a "god" or not, there isn't.  And saying that I also have to say that I have a natural moral compass that is part of who I am in this experience of being human on planet earth.   

[Mr Walker]

On 1/30/2021 at 1:19 PM, Hammerclaw said:

This an open discussion about the significance and impact of the choices we make of life philosophies, religions and spiritualism and their impact on each of our personal lives. What our choices mean to us, personally, how they color and compliment our existence. Why we each think our own choices are best for us. One may expect widely divergent viewpoints, deviating sharply from others, at times. This is meant to be an eclectic thread, not just for any particular viewpoint, open to all spiritual and secular, as not all all life philosophies are necessarily religious or spiritual. I ask that we be kind to one another and withhold harsh criticisms and judgment. All are welcome here.

One.  Establish a value line based on measurable, criteria referenced  outcomes  Use logic and philosophical points as well as life's realities  to do this 

Ie what are your core values, and why do you hold them?   

If two values clash, which must prevail and why?

What will be as many outcomes as you  can predict , flowing from  every action you take.

  Will the y be balanced, or productive/constructive, or destructive 

Two. Train your mind to think only the thoughts which align with those values 

Three.  Train  your body to obey your mind 

Outcome:  conscious planned evolution of your being into the person you want to be 

You will be happy, guiltless, content, unafraid etc.  

You will be loved, respected, and cared for  

You can honestly feel good about yourself.

 

[Mr Walker]

23 hours ago, Guyver said:

Firstly, thank you for the sentiment,  Secondly, everybody is somebody.  So, I guess the question really becomes, are we who we want to be, or are we not really smart enough to think of asking ourselves that question, if you know what I mean.

Once you ask the question, it means you are smart enough to construct an answer

 That is when the hard work begins 

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

One.  Establish a value line based on measurable, criteria referenced  outcomes  Use logic and philosophical points as well as life's realities  to do this 

Ie what are your core values, and why do you hold them?   

If two values clash, which must prevail and why?

What will be as many outcomes as you  can predict , flowing from  every action you take.

  Will the y be balanced, or productive/constructive, or destructive 

Two. Train your mind to think only the thoughts which align with those values 

Three.  Train  your body to obey your mind 

Outcome:  conscious planned evolution of your being into the person you want to be 

You will be happy, guiltless, content, unafraid etc.  

You will be loved, respected, and cared for  

You can honestly feel good about yourself.

 

Around here we call that growing up. In the end, we make choices and live with the consequences of those choices. 66 year old me is living with the consequences of choices 22 year old me made. 22 year old me didn't give a damn about 66 year old me and 66 year old me think he was such a schmuck.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Around here we call that growing up. In the end, we make choices and live with the consequences of those choices. 66 year old me is living with the consequences of choices 22 year old me made. 22 year old me didn't give a damn about 66 year old me and 66 year old me think he was such a schmuck.

Unfortunately very few humans actually do grow up (although most grow out of childhood and a reasonable number grow out of adolescence)

Few evolve the wisdoms and disciplines  of maturity   They think with their emotions and respond irrationally, using their  primate biological drivers  The y do things which hurt themselves and others, often despite KNOWING their behaviors are likely to hurt 

Adult humans can predict the outcomes of their behaviors, and are thus responsible for those outcomes, yet many refuse to accept  accountability for their behaviours  and many even try to avoid this by using things which reduce their control and discipline 

Iwas thinking and planning for "70 years old me" when  i was a child,  although my  written plans generally  only went for a couple of decades at  a time, to  allow for adjustment 

I am now almost exactly who and what  I planned to be in my "old age," as a preschooler, and then as an adolescent  Of course, initially, i had a lot of help from my parents and grandmother  developing the skills  required

I tend to agree that the young sometimes . look foolish to the elderly, but that is caused by  a lack of experience. it is why we are more tolerant of the young than of the mature in our society The young are a reflection of their parents, but as adults they take responsibility for their own behaviours.

  Anyway ,the previous post was my answer to the questions you raised in your thought provoking OP 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Mr Walker