Spiritualism, Secularism, Atheism

[Guyver]

Darts is like golf.  You have a plan, you know what you want to do, but that little b****** just just doesn’t want to go where you tell it lol

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Guyver said:

It would be so nice to play darts with you.  Too bad the universe doesn’t let that happen.

Hi Guyver

It would be my pleasure to share that time with you.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Forgive us if we take most of that with a grain of salt, maybe even a thimble full. If you want to prove that choice thing, let's engage in a little experiment. Put your hand in the door jam and slam the door as hard as you can. Then, come back to us and let us know if choosing not to suffer works.

You are forgiven    It is hard, if not impossible, to appreciate the way another person sees themselves and their world   I explained how I am and my relationship with the world  

Try having two major heart operations with your chest ripped open then stapled back together again, to know pain The first time the pain was so great i couldn't move The  second time i was so doped up i didn't  feel anything

BUT i never "suffered" Thats a state of mind not of body  I have never "suffered" anytime in my adult life  

I perceived my pain as proof tha t i was alive and thus a good healthy thing 

Isaw it as a challenge to overcome 

No i wont slam my hand in the door.

I don't like pain but if i experienced pain i wouldn't feel i was suffering 

Ps if i chose to slam my hand, then i had chosen the pain 

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Guyver

There are times I like to got to the billiard hall and play pool by myself to have some wind down time. I play on a 5x9 and use the numbered balls because I play rotation so I have to hit the low number first no matter what shot I take and if you miss the low ball and sink another ball then  the ball goes back on the table. I am playing by myself and yes I could make any choice I want to but my choice is to play the game by the rules so I can be a better player.

I don't create a religion, even though there is a relationship between religion and ethics, ethics are don't exclusive to or dependent of religion so if I apply the same ethic in all things in the same way I play pool then I don't see a problem.

jmccr8

The billiard hall is such an amazing topic.

 

 

[Guyver]

You gotta love Jonny Lang.  What a story.

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sorry Mr. Walker, but there is no such thing as evolutionary egalitarianism. Some are born with greater or lesser potential, according to their genetics. Foxp2 and other genes contribute to linguistic and literary skills, but have no influence on innate intelligence. In other words, some are born with the potential for greater intelligence than others. I've known adults with perfect language skills who, with 12 years of schooling, can barely write their names. Consider it a sliding scale of intelligence and/or mental abilities. That's why basic, non technical military hardware is designed to be comprehended by sixth grade mentalities.

That's not scientifically correct.

While genes may predispose a human to some things and not to others (eg i have genes which mean I am less likely to suffer depression) the y don't DETERMINE who or what  we are   The y don't make us more or less intelligent, more or less musical etc.,  except at the extremes, and in a few individuals, like savants 

Once upon a time it was believed women and native peoples were genetically inferior to white men, and could never be educated or think as rationally and well as a white man  

Now we know tha t, given opportunity,  any human can achieve anything another person can, given physical  limitations  like  strength or fitness 

Mostly humans are who the y are shaped into by environment, but within that environment, humans have control of their minds and thus their choices.

Apart from  children with a serious disability like dyslexia, I have   never encountered a child i cant teach good English,  reading, and thinking skills to, and even kids with aspergers,  dyslexia and other conditions can be taught to do well.

Adults are harder to teach, but given the plasticity of the human mind /brain, they also can be taught 

And newspapers are designed to be read by people with 6/7 grade skills, But that is not because, inherently, some humans cant learn, it is because, in our system, some people aren't taught.

Recognising this reality  the military and media set their standards very low

With good parenting (time, dedication and enough skills of their own)  a child should be reading before they ever get to school, and should be able to read the daily paper before commencing school 

Ps it is not my genes which keep me from  being musical

I have small hands which stopped me learning the piano (and becoming a trades person)

I am tone deaf which doesn't help.

There were no musical instruments or musically talented people in my family and so i wasn't really exposed to music.

As a teenager i tried to learn the guitar because  i thought it would make me more attractive to girls.

  I didn't have the interest or discipline, or any background, to help me, so i failed 

For some strange reason, once  I turned about 16, girls started taking an interest in me, anyway  

Edited February 1, 2021 by Mr Walker

[+Hammerclaw]

32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You are forgiven    It is hard, if not impossible, to appreciate the way another person sees themselves and their world   I explained how I am and my relationship with the world  

Try having two major heart operations with your chest ripped open then stapled back together again, to know pain The first time the pain was so great i couldn't move The  second time i was so doped up i didn't  feel anything

BUT i never "suffered" Thats a state of mind not of body  I have never "suffered" anytime in my adult life  

I perceived my pain as proof tha t i was alive and thus a good healthy thing 

Isaw it as a challenge to overcome 

No i wont slam my hand in the door.

I don't like pain but if i experienced pain i wouldn't feel i was suffering 

Ps if i chose to slam my hand, then i had chosen the pain 

Nice tap dance on the head of a pin.

[jmccr8]

Some people can't read the instructions for making kraft dinner and it is written in their native language.

jmccr8

Edited February 1, 2021 by jmccr8
spulling

[Guyver]

If I’m not mistaken, Jimi Hendrix actually lived in a pool hall for a time when he was on the southern tour.  3rd eye can prolly confirm this. @third_eye

[+Hammerclaw]

17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

That's not scientifically correct.

While genes may predispose a human to some things and not to others (eg i have genes which mean I am less likely to suffer depression) the y don't DETERMINE who or what  we are   The y don't make us more or less intelligent, more or less musical etc.,  except at the extremes, and in a few individuals, like savants 

Once upon a time it was believed women and native peoples were genetically inferior to white men, and could never be educated or think as rationally and well as a white man  

Now we know tha t, given opportunity,  any human can achieve anything another person can, given physical  limitations  like  strength or fitness 

Mostly humans are who the y are shaped into by environment, but within that environment, humans have control of their minds and thus their choices.

Apart from  children with a serious disability like dyslexia, I have   never encountered a child i cant teach good English,  reading, and thinking skills to, and even kids with aspergers,  dyslexia and other conditions can be taught to do well.

Adults are harder to teach, but given the plasticity of the human mind /brain, they also can be taught 

And newspapers are designed to be read by people with 6/7 grade skills, But that is not because, inherently, some humans cant learn, it is because, in our system, some people aren't taught.

Recognising this reality  the military and media set their standards very low

With good parenting (time, dedication and enough skills of their own)  a child should be reading before they ever get to school, and should be able to read the daily paper before commencing school 

Ps it is not my genes which keep me from  being musical

I have small hands which stopped me learning the piano (and becoming a trades person)

I am tone deaf which doesn't help.

There were no musical instruments or musically talented people in my family and so i wasn't really exposed to music.

As a teenager i tried to learn the guitar because  i thought it would make me more attractive to girls.

  I didn't have the interest or discipline, or any background, to help me, so i failed 

For some strange reason, once  I turned about 16, girls started taking an interest in me, anyway  

All your deficiencies are directly attributable to genetics, Mr. Walker--and you admit you can't carry a tune.  The young women were the  victim of hormones, coursing through their young veins; nothing more.

[+Hammerclaw]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Some people can't read the instructions for making kraft dinner and it is written in their native language.

jmccr8

The inability to admit one's limitations is the worst limitation of all.

[+Hammerclaw]

45 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Darts is like golf.  You have a plan, you know what you want to do, but that little b****** just just doesn’t want to go where you tell it lol

Darts are a skill; golf is a mental disorder.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

The inability to admit one's limitations is the worst limitation of all.

Hi Hammer

No less so than the abllity for others to understand the differences

jmccr8

[Guyver]

9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Darts are a skill; golf is a mental disorder.

Without golf I am nothing.  Golf saved me.  Do not speak ill of my lover.

[Guyver]

JK.  Love you hammerclaw.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Or he is explaining  concepts and realities   which are simple and self  evident to him through his own life, but are incomprehensible to some one  without similar experiences

Try to appreciate how frustrating that can be.

Imagine you know a great and universal truth, like the power of a vaccine,  but another person simply denies that it is even possible.

Try talking an anti vaxxer into having a vaccine.   

You are simply delusional. I have zero interest in further discussion with you. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Hammerclaw]

21 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Without golf I am nothing.  Golf saved me.  Do not speak ill of my lover.

Look. You hit the ball, it flies hundreds of feet and lands; then you manage to find the darn thing. You're done; you did good. Now, go back to the clubhouse and have a few brewskies.

[SHaYap]

46 minutes ago, Guyver said:

If I’m not mistaken, Jimi Hendrix actually lived in a pool hall for a time when he was on the southern tour.  3rd eye can prolly confirm this. @third_eye

Yeah, before the army if memory serves... 

~

40 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Darts are a skill; golf is a mental disorder.

Remembered one time we found an old dart board at the pub I used to frequent, wasn't long before we started to use it for our version of the trade. 

We'd tape a bill somewhere on the board and who hits the closest wins the prize. Hit it and it's a fine of the same denomination and the winning is doubled up. 

The funniest game was a eight fold stack of bills on the board, there was some shaky knees at the toss I can tell you that... 

~

[Guyver]

Robin Williams was quite a skillful man, a legend, if you don’t mind me saying.  But he couldn’t play golf for ****.  He tried, couldn’t do it, so he made jokes about it.  Just saying.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

10 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Robin Williams was quite a skillful man, a legend, if you don’t mind me saying.  But he couldn’t play golf for ****.  He tried, couldn’t do it, so he made jokes about it.  Just saying.

 

[+DieChecker]

10 hours ago, Guyver said:

.But the fact is, that people who believe in God often believe in the power of prayer, you know, prayer changes things.  But does it?  If you try it for yourself, you will have that answer for yourself, just as I did.  Prayer doesn’t change anything that I can see except for things that a person could change for themselves with the power of their mind.

Actually the better thing to do is do it yourself AND pray about it. Praying for items, or direct intervention, is usually a waste of time. Miracles do happen occasionally though.

Best prayers are simply for guidance, or support.

Pray for the best, but act to prevent the worst.

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

Sorry to quote myself here, but I just remembered an experience I had where prayer actually did work.  So, maybe the guy who prayed had a special gift and there may be some people who do, or there is some other explanation.  It’s just another one of those things for me as an ex-believer that I can’t explain.  If it’s God, that’s just fine with me because I’m sure he’s a much better fellow than the Bible portrays.  But, since I’ve asked him at least a thousand times to speak to me or even join me in the moment of prayer I was in, in some way, and He/She/They - whatever the appropriate title is, has never done so....I have to conclude that God doesn’t want to talk to me, or it doesn’t exist.  So, if God doesn’t want to talk to me, and the Bible is mostly false IMO, then I do what I want to do.  I’m on my own.

I dont hear much from God, but then I dont ask Him much.

I do know that "hearing" from God is much more complex then actually hearing anything. The communication could be anything. Something moving, a sound, anything in the world that catches your attention. It can also be the small whisper, or an impression, inside your own head. It can be a dream. It can occur minutes, hours, or days later. Sometimes its just a brief feeling of emotion.

The hard part is recognizing it when it happens and then "speaking" back, to get more. 

I spend a short time almost every days in contemplation. Contemplation is the acceptable word used in Christianity for meditation.  Often I sense nothing, and sometimes I sense something but have no idea what it means. Sometimes though in a group event, the little word you hear can be shared and a huge message can be built from bits given by many people. I often have doubts on that though. Seems, like a Ouija board, people try to subconsciously force what they want.

Myself, I tell others, if they don't want to be a Christian, then try not to live a life you would regret when you die. Make it a life without regrets. Then, if there is a Judgement, you'll have less to explain if you want to be saved.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

36 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Actually the better thing to do is do it yourself AND pray about it. Praying for items, or direct intervention, is usually a waste of time. Miracles do happen occasionally though.

How does one make the distinction between a miracle and a non-miracle? 

[+DieChecker]

7 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

How does one make the distinction between a miracle and a non-miracle? 

Sometimed hard to say. Often I've heard atheists say miracles are simply very great good luck.

Basically, sometimes a miraculous event will statistically not be likely, but not impossible. Such as praying to pick the lottery numbers and then winning immediately after. Pretty long odds of it happening naturally, but it could.

But also there are the supernatural miracles, like coming back to life after three days, and walking on water, or transforming water to wine. Theres no amount of luck that's going to make those possible. If they happened, it was 100% supernatural. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

7 hours ago, third_eye said:

Yeah, before the army if memory serves...

Pretty sure this is after.  Jimi was only 18 when he joined the army, to get out of trouble from being busted from riding in a couple stolen cars I believe.  After getting discharged is I think when he started on the 'chitlin circuit' in the south, I'm sure there were pool halls and much worse that he had to live in during that period.

[SHaYap]

47 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Pretty sure this is after. 

It's hard to separate the myth from the legend I guess, Jimi was also very much in and around pool / snooker / billiard parlors during his rise in London too if I'm not mistaken. 

It's been such a long time ago since I last looked into his history. 

~