Spiritualism, Secularism, Atheism

[Will Due]

 

And don't be surprised if they don't. 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Interesting.

I agree with so much of this and disagree strongly with  some bits 

 

I wasn't raised religious and i think Catholics have a unique perspective on salvation

The way i read the bible and understand it,    faith without works wont save because true faith will RESULT in works ie true faith will cause us to choose thoughts and behaviours which accord with what we see to be god's will.

  But works, no matter how good, without faith/ belief wont save either  because "whosoever believeth in me shall not die but have everlasting life " 

Likewise forgiveness requires more than asking and receiving forgiveness.  It requires physical  restitution,  or making right the consequences of your sin

And indeed we have choices and its ONLY because we have choices tha t we can be judged and held responsible for our thoughts and actions. 

 You cant judge a being  who can't make free willed choices.

There is nothing to forgive, in the thoughts or actions of a being who has no choice what to think, or how to behave.

In my understanding of the bible  we are ALL already saved from  original sin by christ's sacrifice Washed in his blood and invested in new unblemished clothing .

BUT we can blow this  by individually choosing to sin, and not seeking  forgiveness for our individual sins.  

Mr. Walker not being a SDA pathfinder? 
 

Talk about a sermon. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Will Do said:

 

And don't be surprised if they don't. 

 

 

They all do, Will; everyone's path leads to death--and to conquer death, you only have to die.

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

They all do, Will; everyone's path leads to death--and to conquer death, you only have to die.

We are always gonna have a percentage of the population that “think” they “won’t die” the Jesus myth is a big seller for this crowd. 
 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Nuclear Wessel]

12 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Mr. Walker not being a SDA pathfinder? 
 

Talk about a sermon. 

Sounds like something straight out of SDA doctrine.

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Sherapy said:

We are always gonna have a percentage of the population that “think” they won’t die the Jesus myth is a big seller for this crowd. 

In my personal theology, each life the great soul experiences is like a garment it puts on and takes off--and it has a closet full of them and it may wear again, anyone of them at it's pleasure. In a multiverse of infinite possibilities, even death may die.

[SHaYap]

Music video intermission... Take it away Ian ...Gillan 

Quote

 

[00.01:32]

~

[Will Due]

58 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

to conquer death, you only have to die.

 

Not if you die, only for yourself.

 

 

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

What you write, my friend, is your usual, self indulgent, patronizing BS--but that's OK. No one expects more of you.

lol Of course in my opinion this says more about  the wayothrsthinkand judge But you are at least polite

Ive just spent an hour on the phone trying to talk  a 23 year old mother of two, with a third on the way,  out of commiting suicide (yes of course i told her to get more medical support (she does see a counsellor once week and is on medication but it doesn't seem to be enough She  has a number of mental health issues and, after struggling with them for a dcde is almost ready to give up She began with uncontrollable sobbing and ended calm and in control.  I gave her a few simple strategies to reduce stress /anxiety like breathing exercises and suggested yoga/tai chi  but also gave her the website for moodgym (a CBT site) 

So, for me, this is not self indulging, patronising bull****e, It is every day reality  That makes it easy to ignore or forgive your comments  The y come from ignorance of me, and my life,  and are thus excusable 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[XenoFish]

Reading back a page kind of confused me. 

We can't choose our beliefs yet the religious become atheist and atheist become religious..... like they decided to explore other options.

Guess someone couldn't be troubled to read the links I provided. Oh well.

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Mr. Walker not being a SDA pathfinder? 
 

Talk about a sermon. 

Not sure of your point.

This discussion arose as a theological discussion  about religious beliefs, not anything I adhere to personally 

I can also discuss feminism, without being a feminist

Try reading and believing what i post as honest opinion instead of creating a Mr Walker who only exists in your own mind   

[+Hammerclaw]

17 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

Not if you die, only for yourself.

 

 

A-w-w-w, did your dog-eared paperback tell you that?

[+Hammerclaw]

7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

lol Of course in my opinion this says more about  the wayothrsthinkand judge But you are at least polite

Ive just spent an hour on the phone trying to talk  a 23 year old mother of two, with a third on the way,  out of commiting suicide (yes of course i told her to get more medical support (she does see a counsellor once week and is on medication but it doesn't seem to be enough She  has a number of mental health issues and, after struggling with them for a dcde is almost ready togive up She beagn withincotolable sobbing and ended calm and in control  I gave her a few simple strategies to reduce stress /anxiety like breathing exercises and suggested yoga/tai chi  but also gave her the website for moodgym (a CBT site) 

So, for me, this is not self indulging, patronising bull****e, It is every day reality  That makes it easy to ignore or forgive your comments  The y come from ignorance of me, and my life,  and are thus excusable 

Yep, sounds real exciting, way out there in the piney woods. 

[+Hammerclaw]

46 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Music video intermission... Take it away Ian ...Gillan 

[00.01:32]

~

One of my favorite sources. Even Dad like JCSS.

[Mr Walker]

4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Maybe you've been delusional for years. I swear, Mr. Walker, If a woman here, started a thread about choosing tampons, you'd jump in, pompously, with expert advice.

Well i might if the discussion was misleading or  giving potentially dangerous advice 

Once an educator always an educator  

Not sure about expert, but part of my background as a health educator and sexual educator Involved both  male and female issues.

  Teaching  teenage girls, one tends to encounter all the joys  and pitfalls of their biological cycle, and be prepared for it. 

Australia has a fairly open and liberal attitude to sex education in schools, and. for example. one of the challenges i faced while discussing contraception was demonstrating  the correct way to use a condom to a class of 14 year old boys and girls (technical aids provided )  

And yes we also "demonstrated"   and discussed the use of things like tampons  In some cases kids had no one else to educate them in those matters  and it was an official part of the Australian school curriculum 

The main issue was keeping them secure so teenage boys didn't misuse them to embarrass others    

 

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Mr Walker said:

Well i might if the discussion was misleading or  giving potentially dangerous advice 

Once an educator always an educator  

Not sure about expert, but part of my background as a health educator and sexual educator Involved both  male and female issues.

  Teaching  teenage girls, one tends to encounter all the joys  and pitfalls of their biological cycle, and be prepared for it. 

Australia has a fairly open and liberal attitude to sex education in schools, and. for example. one of the challenges i faced while discussing contraception was demonstrating  the correct way to use a condom to a class of 14 year old boys and girls (technical aids provided )  

And yes we also "demonstrated"   and discussed the use of things like tampons  In some cases kids had no one else to educate them in those matters  and it was an official part of the Australian school curriculum 

The main issue was keeping them secure so teenage boys didn't misuse them to embarrass others    

 

Will you please stop proving me right about you. 

[Mr Walker]

4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

If one buys into the Judeo-Christian Mythos completely. As I've said, I don't believe in damnation, judgement or hell, or that kind of God. One good look at the universe tells me there's no such deity so petty,  save for one created by man in his own image. 

 

 

 

Well there you are. I was only speaking about biblical theology and belief 

if you want to follow it you  need to understand it 

Personally ,   I have identical beliefs to those you posted here.  It is why while i  can tolerate most religions, I struggle the most with catholic version of christianity.

All tha t unnecessary guilt and fear. The idea that all humans are sinners, and damned without the intervention of the church  

It just turns me (and many others ) off the whole idea of a god 

 

[Mr Walker]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Will you please stop proving me right about you. 

Why. You WERE right .

I don't see it as criticism 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Yep, those certificates were straight out of a cereal box.

Still got em in the shed (i just gave 4 big boxes of resources to a nephew who is teaching year 6 students, and noticed all my CVs certificates and qualifications in one of the 6 boxes still remaining    Quite a few i had even forgotten  about.  Like my  competency to teach tourism and hospitality 

What you believe is up to you, but i know, and have the documentation to know . 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

We are always gonna have a percentage of the population that “think” they “won’t die” the Jesus myth is a big seller for this crowd. 
 

 

The concept  predates christianity by millenia 

Often something in a person's life, be it 10000 years ago or today, leads them to believe that this life is not the end (and perhaps not the beginning) of their existence 

Indeed the modern materialist western world is perhaps the first time in history where any considerable   number of people came to believe that their existence is purely physical and  limited.

  And while the posters on UM might not reflect it the number of people today  who believe in a purely physical/material existence, is around, or  less than, 10% world wide 

More specifically, on the question of life after death 72%of americans  believe in it , and education doesn't have a significant effect 

quote 

Education has a rather modest effect on belief in life after death. While 69 percent of those with less than a high school education concur, the share of people who believe in an afterlife increases to 78 percent among Americans with some college education before dipping to 72 percent among those with a bachelor’s degree or higher.

https://relationshipsinamerica.com/religion/do-people-still-believe-in-life-after-death

 

Since these figures, an interesting trend has occurred 

quote

In 1998, 49 percent of 18 to 29-year-olds said they were moderately or very religious in 1998. By 2014 this had dropped to 38 percent.

And while 15 percent of adults said they were “not religious at all” in 1998, 20 percent did in 2014.

Yet 80 percent of Americans said they believe in an afterlife in 2014, up from 73 percent in 1972-74.

"It was interesting that fewer people participated in religion or prayed but more believed in an afterlife," Twenge said. "It might be part of a growing entitlement mentality - thinking you can get something for nothing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/better/wellness/fewer-americans-believe-god-yet-they-still-believe-afterlife-n542966

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[White Crane Feather]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

You're welcome here and you may express any thought or belief you want to here. In turn, everyone else is free to comment on your posts. If you find that distasteful, all I can say is--if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We each walk different paths, each in our own way, but don't be surprised if they all lead to the same destination.

I don’t know what you are talking about. We are simply haveing a discussion. You are making it much more than it is. 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Sounds like something straight out of SDA doctrine.

Oh yeah  

and how familiar are you with SDA doctrine?  

What i posted was basically mainstream protestant doctrine

I studied with half a dozen groups from  Anglican, methodist, baptist,  SDA, JW, mormons, and others, as well as doing independent/academic   bible studies.

 It is this difference from  Catholicism, which drove the reformation, and the  decades  of warfare which allowed people a choice of belief.

  Protestants would argue it is biblically based, while catholics argue that they have the authority through the pope ( as the representative of god on earth)   to set,  interpret, and even alter, biblical teachings and laws  

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Crazy Horse]

On 1/31/2021 at 11:45 PM, Mr Walker said:

 i liked your post above this one, and to some extent I agree, but I am not sure you can will yourself to sense "god", any more than you can will yourself to see, if you are blind 

I don't know enough to be certain, but I think that, while it is relatively easy for some minds to connect with god it is very hard for others.

As you  say, this may be due to upbringing, personal experiences, or different needs of a person 

The question then is, how do you alter the minds of those people so the y CAN perceive god, and do you have a right to try and  do so

In my experience if god really needs a person who is blind to it, then god will open the eyes and senses of that person; and, if a person truly needs god, they will  voluntarily open their senses to it. 

I think god is all around us and inside of us.

It is a part of us, and we are a part of it.

However, many humans have problems integrating their physical minds and bodies to operate safely, effectively, and productively,   let alone connecting to,  and integrating,  god in their mind 

 

 

It is indeed very difficult to will yourself to see if blind, but, because we all have consciousness, a mind and free will, plus spirit, we are able to make that choice to seek GOD if one chooses to take that path.

And the best way to inspire an individual into wanting to seek GOD, is to set the example of one who knows, and lives, these truths. There is no impinging upon their free will if you are just going about your daily life, yet it would be almost impossible to ignore a person who has the power of GOD flowing through them.

Yes, they can voluntarily choose to turn back to GOD, eg, will themselves to seek spiritual truths.

I like the idea that we are all held in the Mind of GOD and therefore, GOD is in everything, and everything is in GOD.

If one truthfully seeks GOD, then any problems integrating their physical, mental, and emotional aspects are lessened, the deeper the connection becomes.

.

 

[Mr Walker]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

It is indeed very difficult to will yourself to see if blind, but, because we all have consciousness, a mind and free will, plus spirit, we are able to make that choice to seek GOD if one chooses to take that path.

And the best way to inspire an individual into wanting to seek GOD, is to set the example of one who knows, and lives, these truths. There is no impinging upon their free will if you are just going about your daily life, yet it would be almost impossible to ignore a person who has the power of GOD flowing through them.

Yes, they can voluntarily choose to turn back to GOD, eg, will themselves to seek spiritual truths.

I like the idea that we are all held in the Mind of GOD and therefore, GOD is in everything, and everything is in GOD.

If one truthfully seeks GOD, then any problems integrating their physical, mental, and emotional aspects are lessened, the deeper the connection becomes.

.

 

Oh yes we can all will ourselves to seek god but tha t does not guarantee we will be able to see/fee,l perceive his physical presence in us and around us 

Very few humans do seem to have this sense  

Most have to take the presence of god on faith

You are correct about example but also education is needed.

If peole dont understand why you live your life as you do and what values you base your life on, then the y have less reason to live as you do.   

Your last point is very true.

Ultimately god and human become one being  (they always were, but it  usually takes a while for most humans to catch onto this)  

Such people have some of the powers of god, and some of the nature of god,  such as healing and love   

[Crazy Horse]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Oh yes we can all will ourselves to seek god but tha t does not guarantee we will be able to see/fee,l perceive his physical presence in us and around us 

Very few humans do seem to have this sense  

Most have to take the presence of god on faith

You are correct about example but also education is needed.

If peole dont understand why you live your life as you do and what values you base your life on, then the y have less reason to live as you do.   

Your last point is very true.

Ultimately god and human become one being  (they always were, but it  usually takes a while for most humans to catch onto this)  

Such people have some of the powers of god, and some of the nature of god,  such as healing and love   

I truly believe from my person experience, that time and time again if one seeks GOD, then GOD will give you what you need, yet it is your choice, your free will to embark upon this journey that is the catalyst. Although I do believe in Divine Intervention and the Grace of GOD too. (it doesn't have to be, either, or)

Living these truths and setting a good example is the greatest education, although we can speak to these things in a more conventional, educational way too. Again, it doesn't have to be, either, or.

It is up to the individual to how far they wish to travel upon this path. We have all the necessary tools and equipment, although most of us need a guide to help us along, yet we are divine beings and we are all blessed with this opportunity called life. (if we choose to be).