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Hammerclaw

Spiritualism, Secularism, Atheism

406 posts in this topic

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Will Do
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

No, everyone does not know what is true.  You just proved my point.  It’s just claims that people make with no evidence to support it.

 

And you just proved that when you know something is true, you can reject the truth in what you know.

 

 

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Guyver
Just now, Will Do said:

 

And you just proved that when you know something is true, you can reject the truth in what you know.

 

 

I think not.  I said I didn’t know what it was and that is truth.

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Will Do
Just now, Guyver said:

I think not.  I said I didn’t know what it was and that is truth.

 

And I said you can reject the truth even when you know it's true.

 

 

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Guyver
14 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

And I said you can reject the truth even when you know it's true.

 

 

You must be a fan of the Spinners.  Will it go round in circles?  Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky fly high.

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Will Do
3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You must be a fan of the Spinners.  Will it go round in circles?  Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky fly high.

 

Maybe you don't really know the truth afterall.

Because you're certainly not a fan of Billy Preston.

 

 

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Xeno-Fish

Same people, same discussion, ad infinitum. 

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Will Do

 

One of the prerogatives in life is that you can say you don't know what's true, even when you do.

 

 

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Sherapy
13 hours ago, Guyver said:

I’m in what some have called an “Existential Crisis.”  Well, that sounds so extreme, “crisis” but whatever, I guess I admit it is a crisis of sorts.  Anyway, my problem is that right now I have nothing to believe in besides myself.... and, well.  I do know me a little, so....anyway.  I guess that’s about it.

I would call your journey an Existential Growth spurt. You have shown such courage to look within, and have the grit to question and refine and decide what serves you and what doesn’t. This path is not for the faint of heart and in the process you are an inspiration to many. Never hesitate to reach out for support. All the best Guyv. :wub:

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Guyver
20 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

Maybe you don't really know the truth afterall.

Because you're certainly not a fan of Billy Preston.

 

You got me there.  I thought I may have duffed that one right after I hit “submit.”  It probably is Billy Preston.  Anyway, the point is, I don’t think you can define what truth is, let alone that I reject it.

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Guyver
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Same people, same discussion, ad infinitum. 

One big happy disfunctional family here.  Would it be helpful to have new people discussing the same things?

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Xeno-Fish
4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

One big happy disfunctional family here.  Would it be helpful to have new people discussing the same things?

Happy is a matter of opinion. New people don't last here unless they are a part of the accepted echo chamber / reality tunnel of the collective. Heaven forbid someone steps out of line.

Edited by XenoFish
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Guyver
8 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

One of the prerogatives in life is that you can say you don't know what's true, even when you do.

 

 

You mean people are capable of lying to themselves and others?  Thank you Captain Obvious.  It doesn’t change my point.  I told you the truth but you don’t want to accept it.  You are projecting your beliefs on me.  By way of analogy, consider a blind person crossing the street during a busy time and they don’t see the bus coming that is about to smash them into cream of tomato soup, but you do.  So, you save the blind person.  Only problem is that you are mute.  So, when the person tries to thank you for saving them, you say nothing and walk away.  When the blind person returns home, they tell whomever, wow!  I almost got smashed by a bus today, but someone saved me.  Whomever asks, “Who saved you?” And the blind person answers, I know not.  Did the blind person speak the truth, or did they lie and reject the truth?

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Guyver
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Happy is a matter of opinion. New people don't last here unless they are a part of the accepted echo chamber / reality tunnel of the collective. Heaven forbid someone steps out of line.

True about happy, and partially true about the other points.  I don’t follow the echo chamber all the time, and I certainly have a different reality tunnel.  It’s like the old folks used to say, eat the meat and spit out the bones.

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lightly

I was raised by a Methodist minister's daughter (who took me to church sometimes and went about her housework singing Hymns). and a dad who spent most of his childhood in a Catholic orphanage..(and never mentioned it or God...but did confide to me ,on his deathbed more or less, that he would silently say Hail Marys...while at work to time various work activities...this many Hail Marys= this giant gear box was now Full of grease..etc.).    

Anyway, so, as for me I grew up as a believer of one sort or another...and still am.   I cannot express my belief without sounding ridiculous...but , I just have this KNOWING that there is something all inclusive about the Existence..and Being of Everything.  The universe is not some purely mechanical and therefore, DEAD thing.   That's about all I know.   I don't see God as the old man in the sky God of my youth..I see God as EVERYTHING. ( I told you it sounds ridiculous..when put into words). But in my heart/being..it is as obvious as the sun in the sky.   :).    

It seems the closest thing to religion my belief resembles are some of the most basic and oldest beliefs of Hindhuism...wherein....all things are some sort of aspect of God... Physicality is sort of like the Body of God...and all life is the life of God.. and all else is sort of the thoughts and dreams and Being of God.   God  ,and therefore all else,  just. IS.     Before and after time... And ,actually, All is illusory except GOD.   ALL IS ONE.   I like my belief because of it's Simplicity.     But I guess I just complicated it nearly beyond recognition by trying to put it into words.      To each his own huh?  ..thanks for asking Hammerclaw..I hope this is sort of what you had in mind.  ?    :P

 

 

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Guyver said:

True about happy, and partially true about the other points.  I don’t follow the echo chamber all the time, and I certainly have a different reality tunnel.  It’s like the old folks used to say, eat the meat and spit out the bones.

Everyone basically has their own reality tunnel. But some have a collective reality tunnel where an accepted dogma exist and outside ideas are shunned. If anyone doesn't agree with the collective (like minded fools) then they are an outsider and their opinions matter very little. 

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Will Do
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You mean people are capable of lying to themselves and others?  Thank you Captain Obvious.  It doesn’t change my point.  I told you the truth but you don’t want to accept it.  You are projecting your beliefs on me.  By way of analogy, consider a blind person crossing the street during a busy time and they don’t see the bus coming that is about to smash them into cream of tomato soup, but you do.  So, you save the blind person.  Only problem is that you are mute.  So, when the person tries to thank you for saving them, you say nothing and walk away.  When the blind person returns home, they tell whomever, wow!  I almost got smashed by a bus today, but someone saved me.  Whomever asks, “Who saved you?” And the blind person answers, I know not.  Did the blind person speak the truth, or did they lie and reject the truth?

 

What was that you said about the "Spinners" again?

Oh yeah, going round in circles.

 

 

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Hammerclaw
14 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

One of the prerogatives in life is that you can say you don't know what's true, even when you do.

 

 

Will, all you ever say is nothing, then preen yourself on how clever you are at doing it. Reveal your wonderful truth to everyone. Quote from your dogeared paperback if you must,. Tel us how it's wonderful message has illuminated and changed your life.

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Guyver
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Everyone basically has their own reality tunnel. But some have a collective reality tunnel where an accepted dogma exist and outside ideas are shunned. If anyone doesn't agree with the collective (like minded fools) then they are an outsider and their opinions matter very little. 

Their opinions matter, because it gives the collective something to shout down, but I digress.  I agree with the collective, on this point....no one knows what God is, or if it is, but many people think they do know and they make claims about it.  But without any evidence, claims should not just be blindly accepted because people do lie, and they are also easily mistaken.  Anyway, I understand your point....but it doesn’t mean that you can’t still have a good time here and learn some things.  You don’t have to follow the collective if you don’t want to.

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Hammerclaw
14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Everyone basically has their own reality tunnel. But some have a collective reality tunnel where an accepted dogma exist and outside ideas are shunned. If anyone doesn't agree with the collective (like minded fools) then they are an outsider and their opinions matter very little. 

This thread isn't about everyone, it's about you, your life and your revelations. You say it's the same old things here, then you go on yourself to say the same old things. You and Will are closed circles. Neither of you want to open up and let anyone in or anything out. You just circle the wagons and snipe at anyone who wanders by. You, with your incessant criticisms of everyone else and Will with his pithy one liners. No one's buying it. Who are you and what's Your story.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Guyver said:

Their opinions matter, because it gives the collective something to shout down, but I digress.  I agree with the collective, on this point....no one knows what God is, or if it is, but many people think they do know and they make claims about it.  But without any evidence, claims should not just be blindly accepted because people do lie, and they are also easily mistaken.  Anyway, I understand your point....but it doesn’t mean that you can’t still have a good time here and learn some things.  You don’t have to follow the collective if you don’t want to.

Those who are certain about the existence or non-existence of "god" are equally foolish. As we have no real standard for what we need to look for. All that we do have comes from books created by people, wrapped in their own expectations and desires. People will believe whatever they wish to believe because they want to believe in it. If their beliefs harm none, does it even matter?

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Will Do
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Who are you and what's Your story.

 

I'm someone who's interested in discovering the real truth. 

And when I do, I immediately adjust to it.

What's your story?

 

 

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Nuclear Wessel
Just now, Will Do said:

What's your story?

See Post #2.

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Xeno-Fish
9 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

This thread isn't about everyone, it's about you, your life and your revelations. You say it's the same old things here, then you go on yourself to say the same old things. You and Will are closed circles. Neither of you want to open up and let anyone in or anything out. You just circle the wagons and snipe at anyone who wanders by. You, with your incessant criticisms of everyone else ad Will with his pithy one liners. No one's buying it. Who are you and what's Your story.

My own personal experience in regards to spirituality are different than religion. I hate religion. Spirituality is a feeling, often undefinable. Yet if I actually express my own spiritual views and experience, what repercussion await me. Perhaps I toy with faith now more than I once did because it makes the inner pain go away. Maybe I hope. Maybe I trust that things will go better than they have without expectation. That if there is a god out there in this insane reality, it might take true pity on a wretch like me. But what does such a thing matter. I either walk proudly into a new reality tunnel and accept hyper criticism for being a damn fool or I keep up the expected illusion. 

Because there are moments when I quietly whisper a few words and my personal subjective reality tunnel changes. New things are seen, dare I say hope is found. But I am a damned fool for such spiritual beliefs. Having failed at atheism, failed at theism, and can't hold anything absolute in regards to the some-thingness of life. There is no real ground for me to stand on. So I say my whispered words of hope when I'm alone, in quiet moments and have faith that may-be things will turn out okay. I am uncertain that a god or god like being exist, I do not trust the words of any holy text. If such a thing does exist. I honestly hope it's better than the storybook god/s.

Edited by XenoFish
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Hammerclaw
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Those who are certain about the existence or non-existence of "god" are equally foolish. As we have no real standard for what we need to look for. All that we do have comes from books created by people, wrapped in their own expectations and desires. People will believe whatever they wish to believe because they want to believe in it. If their beliefs harm none, does it even matter?

Does anything you say mean anything, with nothing of your own experience to back it up? It's so easy to talk about everyone else and not yourself, isn't it?

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Xeno-Fish
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Does anything you say mean anything, with nothing of your own experience to back it up? It's so easy to talk about everyone else and not yourself, isn't it?

Post #48

Edited by XenoFish
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