UM-Bot Posted February 1, 2021 #1 Share Posted February 1, 2021 A woman from Toronto scooped a $60 million jackpot with numbers picked from the unlikeliest of sources. https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/343560/dream-yields-womans-winning-lottery-numbers 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted February 1, 2021 #2 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I can never accurately read or do math in my dreams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 1, 2021 #3 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Well as an open-minded skeptic I got to consider precognitive vision versus random chance. Papameter: Precognitive 47.5% Chance 47.5% Hoax 5% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 1, 2021 #4 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, OverSword said: I can never accurately read or do math in my dreams. It's hard for me too. It gets all distorted. And if I read something in a dream, the exact words or numbers will be the first thing I'll forget about that dream. I'll remember reading some letters/numbers, but won't remember which ones. Obviously, it's different if you were meant to win the lottery. Then you remember Oh, well... At least I'm so psychic I can predict with great certainty that I won't win lottery this week 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted February 1, 2021 #5 Share Posted February 1, 2021 "Winning the lottery based on a precognitive dream however is certainly taking things to the next level." The article says they've been playing the same numbers for 20 years. So that's about 1000 draws where their magical precognitive numbers didn't come up. This 'story' is about as much evidence of precognition as my prediction that, although it's dark outside now, in twelve hours it will be brighter. I'll put £5 on that if anyone doubts my powers. 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Well as an open-minded skeptic I got to consider precognitive vision versus random chance. No you don't. Unless they've rigged the draw, it's random chance. End of discussion. Unless you wanna take that bet? 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 1, 2021 #6 Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tom1200 said: No you don't. Unless they've rigged the draw, it's random chance. End of discussion. Unless you wanna take that bet? I think you must consider the tremendous odds against ever winning $60 Million in a lotto. Also I believe in precognition and that it has been shown to be a weak but real human ability in controlled studies. A non-physical entity might have influenced the dream. We can’t know despite your bravado and certainty. I went about 50/50 on this one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhumans Posted February 2, 2021 #7 Share Posted February 2, 2021 They never even won the lottery with the exact numbers from the dream....they won the lottery from a free ticket that was won by those numbers. I guess can be considered one and the same but not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomO' Posted February 2, 2021 #8 Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, OverSword said: I can never accurately read or do math in my dreams. The only thing I've ever been able to accurately do in my dreams was to take a leak. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted February 2, 2021 #9 Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, papageorge1 said: I think you must consider the tremendous odds against ever winning $60 Million in a lotto. ... but somebody wins (most times, eventually) because - despite the odds - so many people buy tickets. You're even less likely to die of liquorice poisoning, but apparently it happens. It's all to do with maths and probability and the real world. 10 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Also I believe in precognition and that it has been shown to be a weak but real human ability in controlled studies. A non-physical entity might have influenced the dream. You can believe what you like but precognition has NEVER been shown to be real. Never, ever. Not even once in a controlled study. Not even 0.000 000 00once. And as for a 'non-physical entity' slipping backwards in time twenty years to influence a dream, on the condition that they play the same numbers every single week for the next thousand weeks - doesn't everyone dream of greater wealth? If I win tomorrow's lottery is that proof of time-travelling dream-weaving phantasms? 10 hours ago, papageorge1 said: We can’t know despite your bravado and certainty. I went about 50/50 on this one. What you mean is - we (normal people, living in the real world) can't prove it DIDN'T happen. By your logic everything that can't be disproven is equally likely. So I claim that I have an ESP link to the next lottery winner, and we have mentally signed a legally binding telepathic contract that they share their winnings with me. Prove me a liar? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 2, 2021 #10 Share Posted February 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Tom1200 said: ... but somebody wins (most times, eventually) because - despite the odds - so many people buy tickets. You're even less likely to die of liquorice poisoning, but apparently it happens. It's all to do with maths and probability and the real world. You can believe what you like but precognition has NEVER been shown to be real. Never, ever. Not even once in a controlled study. Not even 0.000 000 00once. And as for a 'non-physical entity' slipping backwards in time twenty years to influence a dream, on the condition that they play the same numbers every single week for the next thousand weeks - doesn't everyone dream of greater wealth? If I win tomorrow's lottery is that proof of time-travelling dream-weaving phantasms? What you mean is - we (normal people, living in the real world) can't prove it DIDN'T happen. By your logic everything that can't be disproven is equally likely. So I claim that I have an ESP link to the next lottery winner, and we have mentally signed a legally binding telepathic contract that they share their winnings with me. Prove me a liar? It's down to opinion. Could a spirit message or precognitive dream have occurred? In my view of reality that is a possibility. So is blind luck a possibility. Considering the unlikeliness of a random chance winner is something to consider. The likeliness of each possibility is only an educated estimate based on our personal worldview. My Papameter went: Precognitive 47.5% Chance 47.5% Hoax 5% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted February 2, 2021 #11 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, papageorge1 said: It's down to opinion. Could a spirit message or precognitive dream have occurred? In my view of reality that is a possibility. That sort of thing might happen in imaginary realities. I exist in the real reality. Ghosts and fairies and time-travelling succubi are fun in comics and VR sets but they're not real in real reality. 3 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Considering the unlikeliness of a random chance winner is something to consider. Erm? What exactly are you suggesting is worth consideration here? 3 hours ago, papageorge1 said: the unlikeliness of a random chance winner All random events are equally (un)likely. In most lotteries the odds are tens or hundreds of millions to one against any specific combination. But the more people buy tickets the greater the probability that someone will win. It's rudimentary statistics and I know you understand this perfectly well. 3 hours ago, papageorge1 said: The likeliness of each possibility is only an educated estimate based on our personal worldview. No. Probabilities are easy to calculate using maths. They're not a guess and have nothing to do with your point of view. How you interpret those odds are down to your worldview, but that doesn't alter the basic mathematics (which I know you understand perfectly well). Actual real-world-reality readings: precognition 0%, chance + hoax + fraud 100%, but any deeper analysis is fundamentally pointless. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 2, 2021 #12 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Flip a coin, heads or tails, luck just happens sometimes. Not really much need to read more in to it. Edited February 2, 2021 by XenoFish 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 2, 2021 #13 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tom1200 said: That sort of thing might happen in imaginary realities. Your first sentence shows our divide. I do believe these things (spirit messages or precognitive dreams) are part of this reality which is a deeper reality than some realize. From there our thoughts on this case will predictably diverge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 2, 2021 #14 Share Posted February 2, 2021 22 hours ago, Tom1200 said: No you don't. Unless they've rigged the draw, it's random chance. End of discussion. Unless you wanna take that bet? I see you've met PG1. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted February 3, 2021 #15 Share Posted February 3, 2021 So many people play the same numbers on every drawing that they chose from some "special system". Once in a while, one such a person wins the lottery. And of course, said person starts bragging about their "system" that won them $$Millions. And everyone listens intently in the outside chance that he knows what he's talking about. after all, he did hit the lottery, eh? :-) Bolderdash, I tell you! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bed of chaos Posted February 5, 2021 #16 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I'm not sure I buy this. Most can't read/write in dreams. Your memory is constantly working against you. I did a lucid experiment, where I purposely went through my neighbors magazine rack (during a lucid dream). To see if I could match up what was there in waking life. It was very difficult to read the magazine titles. Memorizing about a long sequence of numbers would be insanely difficult. Many long term players, play the same numbers, nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 6, 2021 #17 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 7:53 PM, Tom1200 said: ... but somebody wins (most times, eventually) because - despite the odds - so many people buy tickets. You're even less likely to die of liquorice poisoning, but apparently it happens. It's all to do with maths and probability and the real world. You can believe what you like but precognition has NEVER been shown to be real. Never, ever. Not even once in a controlled study. Not even 0.000 000 00once. And as for a 'non-physical entity' slipping backwards in time twenty years to influence a dream, on the condition that they play the same numbers every single week for the next thousand weeks - doesn't everyone dream of greater wealth? If I win tomorrow's lottery is that proof of time-travelling dream-weaving phantasms? What you mean is - we (normal people, living in the real world) can't prove it DIDN'T happen. By your logic everything that can't be disproven is equally likely. So I claim that I have an ESP link to the next lottery winner, and we have mentally signed a legally binding telepathic contract that they share their winnings with me. Prove me a liar? Everything which cant be proven impossible remains theoretically possible. If you cant prove it didn't, you cant claim with surety that it didn't . It depends also what standards of proof you require. Soviet and American work in the past had some specific successes. Not enough to be reliable but much more than could be accounted for by probability 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 6, 2021 #18 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Bed of chaos said: I'm not sure I buy this. Most can't read/write in dreams. Your memory is constantly working against you. I did a lucid experiment, where I purposely went through my neighbors magazine rack (during a lucid dream). To see if I could match up what was there in waking life. It was very difficult to read the magazine titles. Memorizing about a long sequence of numbers would be insanely difficult. Many long term players, play the same numbers, nothing new. I am (apparently) unusually experienced in dreams, including lucid dreaming, controlled dreaming, dream construction and projection of consciousness in dreams However i suspect it is my 40 plus years of teaching, as much as anything, which means i not only read and write fluently in my dreams but i teach classes of kids whole lessons on the black/white/;electronic board (Sometimes i get annoyed at doing the same thing in my dreams as in real life, but then i will show off to the class by walking through a wall, or flying round the ceiling. When i started teaching, i would practice new lessons, strategies and likely outcomes, in a dream, before trying them out in real life Edited February 6, 2021 by Mr Walker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bed of chaos Posted February 6, 2021 #19 Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I am (apparently) unusually experienced in dreams, including lucid dreaming, controlled dreaming, dream construction and projection of consciousness in dreams However i suspect it is my 40 plus years of teaching, as much as anything, which means i not only read and write fluently in my dreams but i teach classes of kids whole lessons on the black/white/;electronic board (Sometimes i get annoyed at doing the same thing in my dreams as in real life, but then i will show off to the class by walking through a wall, or flying round the ceiling. When i started teaching, i would practice new lessons, strategies and likely outcomes, in a dream, before trying them out in real life I originally put in comment 'with the exception of skilled lucid dreamers' however changed my mind last second. I do believe some excell more than others but have some issues w particular story. There wasn't more detailed information given. Or even if it was a lucid dream. Also was somewhat bothered she mentioned financial problems. Well, how much would you save NOT playing the lottery twenty years? I'm sure many life long players tell themselves things like 'I'm the chosen one' or 'it's going to happen eventually'. Anyway I don't believe ur personal dream experiences appear far from reason. You can manipulate things but it's a juggling act. To keep a heightened state of awareness (a prolonged lucid dream). A popular topic that's been in dream forums for decades. Despite no set induction method, I personally believe being persistent w a dream journal is key. It's worked for me personally, numerous times (improving dream recall). Something I rarely see others object to on dream sites. Well, its 2:00 am and I'm ranting about dreams again. We'll take up subject another time...stay out of trouble Mr. Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 6, 2021 #20 Share Posted February 6, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bed of chaos said: I originally put in comment 'with the exception of skilled lucid dreamers' however changed my mind last second. I do believe some excell more than others but have some issues w particular story. There wasn't more detailed information given. Or even if it was a lucid dream. Also was somewhat bothered she mentioned financial problems. Well, how much would you save NOT playing the lottery twenty years? I'm sure many life long players tell themselves things like 'I'm the chosen one' or 'it's going to happen eventually'. Anyway I don't believe ur personal dream experiences appear far from reason. You can manipulate things but it's a juggling act. To keep a heightened state of awareness (a prolonged lucid dream). A popular topic that's been in dream forums for decades. Despite no set induction method, I personally believe being persistent w a dream journal is key. It's worked for me personally, numerous times (improving dream recall). Something I rarely see others object to on dream sites. Well, its 2:00 am and I'm ranting about dreams again. We'll take up subject another time...stay out of trouble Mr. Walker. Thanks for the last comment but it seems unlikely I have an open mind on things like this. It could just be luck/coincidence or it could be much more Without knowing the person or the circumstances, I can't tell. As to dreaming; with years and years of practice and effort very night, plus a good understanding of how your mind (conscious and subconscious) works, a person can be lucid and aware in every dream The y can control such dreams, and its even possible to plan dreams while you are awake and then step into them when you sleep As a child and adolescent dreams were the more exciting half of my life and in them i controlled my world. However as an adult i began to control the real world and so dreams were not so i important And i spent less time on them The longest period of continued, controlled lucid dreaming, i did as a teenagers was about 6 hours or more. I flew my consciousness right around the world at my line of latitude, exploring places and observing sights as I went. It took me over a year of training and practice every night to develop the discipline to maintain control for that long, and it was very draining mentally. Once i am in a dream now, it is no more effort to maintain than being awake. In some ways its easier because EVERYTHING is possible with a slight mental command and there are no consequences to self or other Every part of a dream coms from my mind and so everything in a dream is a part of me Thus there is nothing to fear or worry about in a dream. Anything is allowable in a dream although it is a good idea to know yourself your desires needs and strengths/weakness Otherwise the power can go to your head (pun intended) and you can become a less nice person in your dreams because there is no accountability It is not a good idea to allow that to happen. I slip into the dream world thought a mental construct or portal which joins the physical world and the dream realms like a wormhole. When i leave the dream realms I stay quietly in bed for few moments remembering the dream and storing it in long term memory Dream journals do seem to work, as does discussing your dreams a lot with others in the waking world. Past dreams beget future ones, just as much as recent waking activity ( reading, media, memories, experiences) becomes symbolically embedded in dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted February 6, 2021 #21 Share Posted February 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Everything which cant be proven impossible remains theoretically possible. If you cant prove it didn't, you cant claim with surety that it didn't. a It depends also what standards of proof you require. Soviet and American work in the past had some specific successes. b Not enough to be reliable but much more than could be accounted for by probability a It's up to the person making the ridiculous claims to provide evidence. If I read e.g. "studies show telekinetic powers peak at the age of 14" I would take an interest and want to know more. Sources? Links? Data? I could then take my time to reflect - is this credible? is it accurate? what are the implications? If, however, I wrote "studies show..." with some unsubstantiated assertion and no proof, I would hardly expect others to treat me seriously. Which leads directly to... b These are bold claims. But - why no supporting evidence? For all we know you've just made that up. And since it flatly contradicts everything we know about the flow of time and how the electrochemistry of the brain operates - you'll understand my scepticism. I'll reiterate my earlier assertion: precognition is not true. Fortune-telling doesn't work. Oracles and prophesies are not real. Diving the future by reading tea-leaves or slicing open goats doesn't work. The lines on your palm do not dictate your life span. Nostradamus did not accurately predict specific future events. etc. All you would have to do to contradict me is provide a single piece of evidence, but you're not going to do that because... there is no such evidence. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 6, 2021 #22 Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Tom1200 said: a It's up to the person making the ridiculous claims to provide evidence. If I read e.g. "studies show telekinetic powers peak at the age of 14" I would take an interest and want to know more. Sources? Links? Data? I could then take my time to reflect - is this credible? is it accurate? what are the implications? If, however, I wrote "studies show..." with some unsubstantiated assertion and no proof, I would hardly expect others to treat me seriously. Which leads directly to... b These are bold claims. But - why no supporting evidence? For all we know you've just made that up. And since it flatly contradicts everything we know about the flow of time and how the electrochemistry of the brain operates - you'll understand my scepticism. I'll reiterate my earlier assertion: precognition is not true. Fortune-telling doesn't work. Oracles and prophesies are not real. Diving the future by reading tea-leaves or slicing open goats doesn't work. The lines on your palm do not dictate your life span. Nostradamus did not accurately predict specific future events. etc. All you would have to do to contradict me is provide a single piece of evidence, but you're not going to do that because... there is no such evidence. There are serious scientists that say and provide experimental results to prove the existence of psychic phenomena. How familiar are you really with their experiments, evidence and claims. I find often the huffy skeptic is not even aware of the quality of the evidence for psi phenomena and just parrots the old skeptics of the past. One parapsychologist I respect is Dr. Dean Radin. “After a century of increasingly sophisticated investigations and more than a thousand controlled studies with combined odds against chance of 10 to the 104th power to 1, there is now strong evidence that psi phenomena exist. While this is an impressive statistic, all it means is that the outcomes of these experiments are definitely not due to coincidence. We’ve considered other common explanations like selective reporting and variations in experimental quality, and while those factors do moderate the overall results, there can be no little doubt that overall something interesting is going on. It seems increasingly likely that as physics continues to redefine our understanding of the fabric of reality, a theoretical outlook for a rational explanation for psi will eventually be established Dr, Dean Radin Qualifications 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 6, 2021 #23 Share Posted February 6, 2021 11 hours ago, Tom1200 said: a It's up to the person making the ridiculous claims to provide evidence. If I read e.g. "studies show telekinetic powers peak at the age of 14" I would take an interest and want to know more. Sources? Links? Data? I could then take my time to reflect - is this credible? is it accurate? what are the implications? If, however, I wrote "studies show..." with some unsubstantiated assertion and no proof, I would hardly expect others to treat me seriously. Which leads directly to... b These are bold claims. But - why no supporting evidence? For all we know you've just made that up. And since it flatly contradicts everything we know about the flow of time and how the electrochemistry of the brain operates - you'll understand my scepticism. I'll reiterate my earlier assertion: precognition is not true. Fortune-telling doesn't work. Oracles and prophesies are not real. Diving the future by reading tea-leaves or slicing open goats doesn't work. The lines on your palm do not dictate your life span. Nostradamus did not accurately predict specific future events. etc. All you would have to do to contradict me is provide a single piece of evidence, but you're not going to do that because... there is no such evidence. Predictions are often so vague that you can find something that'll "confirm them". As for divining some future, that's self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias. Which is why I have zero respect for fortune tellers. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted February 6, 2021 #24 Share Posted February 6, 2021 59 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: There are serious scientists that say and provide experimental results to prove the existence of psychic phenomena. How familiar are you really with their experiments, evidence and claims. I find often the huffy skeptic is not even aware of the quality of the evidence for psi phenomena and just parrots the old skeptics of the past. One parapsychologist I respect is Dr. Dean Radin. “After a century of increasingly sophisticated investigations and more than a thousand controlled studies with combined odds against chance of 10 to the 104th power to 1, there is now strong evidence that psi phenomena exist. While this is an impressive statistic, all it means is that the outcomes of these experiments are definitely not due to coincidence. We’ve considered other common explanations like selective reporting and variations in experimental quality, and while those factors do moderate the overall results, there can be no little doubt that overall something interesting is going on. It seems increasingly likely that as physics continues to redefine our understanding of the fabric of reality, a theoretical outlook for a rational explanation for psi will eventually be established Dr, Dean Radin Qualifications papageorge, The qualifications bear no relevance to whether or not psychic phenomenon is true--the evidence in support of it does. If he has conducted research, cite it; if he has performed studies, cite those. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 6, 2021 #25 Share Posted February 6, 2021 37 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: papageorge, The qualifications bear no relevance to whether or not psychic phenomenon is true--the evidence in support of it does. If he has conducted research, cite it; if he has performed studies, cite those. The quote said: 'more than a thousand controlled studies'. Citing is beyond the scope of my general comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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