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Eldorado

9-yr-old girl pepper-sprayed by NY cops

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spartan max2
On 2/15/2021 at 12:55 PM, Odin11 said:

You have to be severely *****ed in the head if you can justify what happened to this little girl. She is a child and children who are put in these situations are victims not criminals. I literally can not think of a single scenario where purposely hurting a child is justifiable. The fact that it has to be explained that its not okay for an adult to purposely harm a child is insane, there's seriously something wrong with some people. 

Purposely harm is a pretty charged term.

If a 9 year old is running around with a butcher knife trying to kill someone how would you stop her?

What about a larger 13 year old boy?

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Odin11
7 hours ago, openozy said:

So if a nine year old blows someone's head off we tell them to sit in their room for 10 minutes? They need to learn there are repercussions and I remember at 9 I knew right from wrong.

Well, 1. You have to realize that the child is still very much a victim in that situation, not the only victim but one nonetheless.

2. You 100% did not know better when you were 9, that would be literally physiologically impossible, that part of the brain is still in development at 9 years old.

You're trying to hold children to adult standards of thought and rational and it simply doesn't work that way. Sometimes the emotions are just to great for kids to handle.

6 hours ago, openozy said:

Have you ever seen Children of the Corn?,lol. I didn't see anything about mental issues. As said if they manhandled her it would have been worse for everyone. This may have saved her life because going off the rails can get you shot as an adult. I also hated Trump and racism by the way.

No person, especially a child, would harm themselves without severe mental stress.

My niece, who is also 9, has oppositional defiant disorder. I know first hand what an outburst looks and sounds like and I'd bet all my money that this poor girl has it too. Kids who are suffering through an ODD outburst have literally zero control of their actions. 

She was in custody, handcuffed, and already manhandled, they did not save her life, they put her through more mental stress and unnecessarily risked her health by pepper spraying her. 

5 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Purposely harm is a pretty charged term.

If a 9 year old is running around with a butcher knife trying to kill someone how would you stop her?

What about a larger 13 year old boy?

Yeah, I said purposely harm for a reason. And this poor little girl getting pepper sprayed was nothing more than vindictive pigs losing control and purposely hurting her because she didn't bend to their inflated sense of authority and each of them should be in jail because of it. 

The answer is the same for both: you stop them without purposely harming them. And if that means yourself being hurt, then that's what it takes if it means the kid is safe. Only a coward would harm a child to save themselves.

When my Grandpa was asked why he threw his gun and surrendered, instead of fighting back against a single person, after being shot down in Germany during WWII  he said: "The kid was 15, I wasn't about to shoot a kid. I'd rather die a man than live as a coward".

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openozy
10 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

I know first hand what an outburst looks and sounds like and I'd bet all my money that this poor girl has it too.

You are just surmising on that, I've known kids that age to be dealing hard drugs on the street, they wouldn't think twice about stabbing you. They might be too young to understand their actions but say that to the stabbed persons family. Very noble of your grandad but he is lucky to have lived. The cemetery is full of dead heroes. Cops aren't cowards, they have a lot to deal with and I don't blame them at all in this situation. If the kid has learnt a lesson from this they may just make it to adulthood. If you need to blame someone blame the trash parents.

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spartan max2
6 hours ago, Odin11 said:

Well, 1. You have to realize that the child is still very much a victim in that situation, not the only victim but one nonetheless.

2. You 100% did not know better when you were 9, that would be literally physiologically impossible, that part of the brain is still in development at 9 years old.

You're trying to hold children to adult standards of thought and rational and it simply doesn't work that way. Sometimes the emotions are just to great for kids to handle.

Not arguing with that.

I'm saying if a child is being extremely violent they have to be stopped somehow. 

That's not adult standards. It's just a reality that minors can kill and send people to he hospital too. And in those situations they need to be stopped somehow and it's probably going to have to be in a physical way.

You think pepper spray is bad but the alternative is for the cops to physically assault her body to get it into the car. Would that of been better?

Or would you rather they left her there and just hope she doesn't kill her mom? Like the call was originally about.

Your expierence with a niece is not indicative of how violent kids  and minors can become. You have no idea.

Edit: to point out I'm not just talking about this case specifically, but in general. Because you have that stance that minors never get dangerously violent.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Odin11
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Not arguing with that.

I'm saying if a child is being extremely violent they have to be stopped somehow. 

That's not adult standards. It's just a reality that minors can kill and send people to he hospital too. And in those situations they need to be stopped somehow and it's probably going to have to be in a physical way.

You think pepper spray is bad but the alternative is for the cops to physically assault her body to get it into the car. Would that of been better?

Or would you rather they left her there and just hope she doesn't kill her mom? Like the call was originally about.

Your expierence with a niece is not indicative of how violent kids  and minors can become. You have no idea.

Edit: to point out I'm not just talking about this case specifically, but in general. Because you have that stance that minors never get dangerously violent.

 

Nowhere did I say that minors never get dangerously violent, that is not my stance. My stance is that no matter how violent a child gets, they're still a child and should be treated as such.

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Odin11
9 hours ago, openozy said:

You are just surmising on that, I've known kids that age to be dealing hard drugs on the street, they wouldn't think twice about stabbing you. They might be too young to understand their actions but say that to the stabbed persons family. Very noble of your grandad but he is lucky to have lived. The cemetery is full of dead heroes. Cops aren't cowards, they have a lot to deal with and I don't blame them at all in this situation. If the kid has learnt a lesson from this they may just make it to adulthood. If you need to blame someone blame the trash parents.

You didn't know 9 year olds dealing hard drugs, you knew people using kids to deal drugs and that's my whole point those kids are victims.

The cops in the video are very much cowards, they pepper sprayed a 9 year old girl who was already handcuffed. I blame the trash parents of anyone who thinks what the pigs did was okay.

Edited by Odin11
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spartan max2
16 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

Nowhere did I say that minors never get dangerously violent, that is not my stance. My stance is that no matter how violent a child gets, they're still a child and should be treated as such.

What does that actually mean though?

If you were the cop on that situation what would you do?

You get a call from a mom saying that he daughter is running around saying she will kill her and herself. Having psychosis.

You come and try to take her to the hospital but the only way to get her in the car is by force.

 

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aztek

virtue signaling without even slightest understanding of situation is  really unattractive to say the least, really tells you how half our society is disconnected from reality, and emotion is based instead of fact based.  this just can not evolve anywhere positive. VS need to watch a gangland episode where 10-12 years old carry guns an would not think about popping one in anyone's head, they would take pride in it actually. 

Edited by aztek
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OverSword
7 minutes ago, aztek said:

virtue signaling without even slightest understanding a situation is  really unattractive to say the least, really tells you how half our society is disconnected from reality, and emotion is based instead of fact based.  this joist can not evolve anywhere positive. VS need to watch a gangland episode where 10-12 years old carry guns an would not think about popping one in anyone's head, they would take pride in it actually. 

If two other 190 lbs men and I can't restrain a nine year old girl without harming her or pepper spraying her I'll become a democrat.  :rolleyes:

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spartan max2
8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If two other 190 lbs men and I can't restrain a nine year old girl without harming her or pepper spraying her I'll become a democrat.  :rolleyes:

I think it was more the fear of harming her during forcing her into a car. Can you image the outrage if she got a minor bruise? 

Pepper spray seems like it would assure her limbs not getting hurt.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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spartan max2
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I think it was more the fear of harming her during forcing her into a car. Can you image the outrage if she got a minor bruise? 

Pepper spray seems like it would assure her limbs not getting hurt.

 

Not sure if I shared this before. But that's pretty much what the union response was too.

Quote

"They were trying to get her into the car," said Mike Mazzeo, president of the Locust Club police union, at a press conference. The officer who pepper-sprayed the girl "made a decision there that he thought was the best action to take," Mazzeo declared. "It resulted in no injury to her. Had they had to go and push further and use more force, there's a good chance she could have been hurt worse. It's very difficult to get someone into the back of a police car like that."

https://reason-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/reason.com/2021/02/01/she-could-have-been-hurt-worse-police-union-defends-officer-who-pepper-sprayed-9-year-old-girl/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16136721348871&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Freason.com%2F2021%2F02%2F01%2Fshe-could-have-been-hurt-worse-police-union-defends-officer-who-pepper-sprayed-9-year-old-girl%2F

 

 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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OverSword
11 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I think it was more the fear of harming her during forcing her into a car. Can you image the outrage if she got a minor bruise? 

Pepper spray seems like it would assure her limbs not getting hurt.

 

I would have just sat on her until she was too exhausted to move.  That's often how you win wrestling matches, taxing the other persons endurance.

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aztek
28 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If two other 190 lbs men and I can't restrain a nine year old girl without harming her or pepper spraying her I'll become a democrat.  :rolleyes:

maybe you should try it once, i guarantee you'll be very surprised.

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aztek
23 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I think it was more the fear of harming her during forcing her into a car. Can you image the outrage if she got a minor bruise? 

Pepper spray seems like it would assure her limbs not getting hurt.

 

absolutely, you touch her, she'll file sexual assault suite, and say you touch her in private places.  pepper spray is the least harmful option, another is a baton, or a blow to the head.

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spartan max2
51 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I would have just sat on her until she was too exhausted to move.  That's often how you win wrestling matches, taxing the other persons endurance.

I can't wait for those headlines. "Office cracks rib of 9 year old girl by sitting on her". " 9 year old screams I can't breath while officer sits on her." 

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OverSword
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I can't wait for those headlines. "Office cracks rib of 9 year old girl by sitting on her". " 9 year old screams I can't breath while officer sits on her." 

Fine, have it your way.  Tazing may be even less damaging than pepper spray.  Maybe they should have tazed her :yes:

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openozy
7 hours ago, Odin11 said:

I blame the trash parents of anyone who thinks what the pigs did was okay.

Pity your dumbass grandad wasn't shot by the kid in the war then we wouldn't have to listen to your inherited righteous dribble today, lol.

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Odin11
16 minutes ago, openozy said:

Pity your dumbass grandad wasn't shot by the kid in the war then we wouldn't have to listen to your inherited righteous dribble today, lol.

My grandfather died a man with honor, that didn't live a weakling defending cowards.

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tortugabob

Pepper spraying anyone wearing cuffs is wrong. No excuse.  Now what the cop closest to the camera should have done is grab her by the hair and pull her to the center of the back seat.  Simple and effective with minor damage..The girl said she was suicidal.  The police had a responsibility to safeguard her,  If they had just said we don't have to deal with this ****  and just let her walk off and she went out and killed herself.... Well you can visualize the mother on Channel 4 News  crying that the police did'n'do nuttin to save her baby.  Then the city would have to settle out of court as they prefer to do. Too bad they let this go on so long and in the end get mad. . 

Edited by tortugabob

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spartan max2
4 minutes ago, tortugabob said:

Pepper spraying anyone wearing cuffs is wrong. No excuse.  Now what the cop closest to the camera should have done is grab her by the hair and pull her to the center of the back seat.  Simple and effective with minor damage..

My question is do you believe that that video would of been less contraversal than pepper spray?

My opinion is that it would not have. 

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openozy
14 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

My grandfather died a man with honor, that didn't live a weakling defending cowards.

I feel he may have sensed the family future and had a death wish. that in itself is honorable. 

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Mirzam

The more I researched this, the more it seemed like a slanted story. We dont have any actual evidence of what occurred prior to the video, it's all word of mouth and depictions of emotion using media framing techniques. I still think it's extreme to resort to the police over words.

IMO I believe this story is bull****. I dont think she posed any real threat. If she had actually came at someone with a weapon, it would be different. Even then you would have to consider why a 9 year old would do such a thing because she could be defending herself. 

Mental health facilities and psychologists can be just as corrupt as prison. I would never in a million years call the police on my child or marginilize them to one of those horrible facilities. Learn better communication and find community support with groups, family, or a different type of education if you believe their environment is a threat or something.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 2/19/2021 at 4:02 AM, OverSword said:

If two other 190 lbs men and I can't restrain a nine year old girl without harming her or pepper spraying her I'll become a democrat.  :rolleyes:

Get ready to vote Joe, dude. 
I know for a fact if a kid is fighting you, they will get hurt. Even if you have one man on her legs, and one on each arm the child’s wild movements will result in self-injury. Especially if they’re having a psychotic break (forcwant of a better phrase).

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OverSword
18 minutes ago, President Wearer of Hats said:

Get ready to vote Joe, dude. 
I know for a fact if a kid is fighting you, they will get hurt. Even if you have one man on her legs, and one on each arm the child’s wild movements will result in self-injury. Especially if they’re having a psychotic break (forcwant of a better phrase).

I guess I’m outvoted. In that case I would mace her and taze her just to make sure she didn’t get hurt 

Edited by OverSword

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I guess I’m outvoted. In that case I would mace her and taze her just to make sure she didn’t get hurt 

It’s all about injury limitation, not injury prevention when someone is having a full blown episode. Pepper spray is not something I’d choose, it’s too unpredictable to know how her body will cope. Honestly, the school not having a safe room (thst is, a place set up to allow them to burn their anger out in such a way as to not harm themselves), and there not being staff train to control uncooperative little human bodies is where I’d lay blame. 

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