Mindfulness

[Guyver]

42 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Wow, how interesting. I just marvel at how you worked thru religion to become mindful. I knew you when you were super Christian. You literally a fabulous example of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in action. What a change. What specifically helped you. How did AA catapulte this journey? I think the golf course for you is your living meditation. 

Thank you for sharing. 

When I went to AA, I was separated from my wife and heading for divorce court.  She had already been separated from me by choice, under the confines of our own home, that we both have worked so hard for as true professionals.  Anyway, the reason it worked is because I did it for me.  I was so lost.  I didn’t know what to do and the divorce was crushing me so I just started drinking all the time.  Well, not really.  All the time after work.  Anyway, a long story short, I realized that I am the problem and it helped me reflect upon my wife and what she had been through because of me.  So, I made amends to her.  Then, I proceeded to follow all of the agreements about selling the house and all the property, so, I began to improve the property and prepare it for sale, as per agreement....and I did my job then some.  I just did little things for Susan, who once was my wife that I thought she would appreciate.  Long story short, we reconciled and did not finalize our divorce.  We are still together now, and we have grown a lot because of this experience.  Not that we are all well, we struggle.  Life is hard.  But, we struggle together.  So, all good.

[+Sherapy]

18 minutes ago, Guyver said:

When I went to AA, I was separated from my wife and heading for divorce court.  She had already been separated from me by choice, under the confines of our own home, that we both have worked so hard for as true professionals.  Anyway, the reason it worked is because I did it for me.  I was so lost.  I didn’t know what to do and the divorce was crushing me so I just started drinking all the time.  Well, not really.  All the time after work.  Anyway, a long story short, I realized that I am the problem and it helped me reflect upon my wife and what she had been through because of me.  So, I made amends to her.  Then, I proceeded to follow all of the agreements about selling the house and all the property, so, I began to improve the property and prepare it for sale, as per agreement....and I did my job then some.  I just did little things for Susan, who once was my wife that I thought she would appreciate.  Long story short, we reconciled and did not finalize our divorce.  We are still together now, and we have grown a lot because of this experience.  Not that we are all well, we struggle.  Life is hard.  But, we struggle together.  So, all good.

Awww, thank you for sharing. What a story your love for each other is your foundation, that you two chose to grow in your situation is a testimony to that love. Sean and I always say our love for each other has been our saving Grace many times through the years. Covid and being empty nesters was quite the challenge for us, we had some ups and downs and at times thought it was to much, sometimes me, sometimes him. But, like you and Susan we have grown closer, and wouldn’t want to struggle with anyone but each other. Lol  I appreciate your authenticity, I like to give the real story myself not some polished for public version. 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

When I went to AA, I was separated from my wife and heading for divorce court.  She had already been separated from me by choice, under the confines of our own home, that we both have worked so hard for as true professionals.  Anyway, the reason it worked is because I did it for me.  I was so lost.  I didn’t know what to do and the divorce was crushing me so I just started drinking all the time.  Well, not really.  All the time after work.  Anyway, a long story short, I realized that I am the problem and it helped me reflect upon my wife and what she had been through because of me.  So, I made amends to her.  Then, I proceeded to follow all of the agreements about selling the house and all the property, so, I began to improve the property and prepare it for sale, as per agreement....and I did my job then some.  I just did little things for Susan, who once was my wife that I thought she would appreciate.  Long story short, we reconciled and did not finalize our divorce.  We are still together now, and we have grown a lot because of this experience.  Not that we are all well, we struggle.  Life is hard.  But, we struggle together.  So, all good.

You just made my day.

I am so happy for you. (and your wife)   

May you grow old disgracefully, together, with each other's love, support, and encouragement 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mr Walker

[quillius]

8 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

I have to wonder that if there is a mind of the universe as to why it would create component minds that are in conflict.

jmccr8

Hi Jay,

we also do see/experience 'conflict' through individual (our own) minds.

not sure as to the why.

 

 

[Will Due]

11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Question: how does this tie into mindfulness for you? I am interested in your thoughts. 

 

There's a movement going on that has to do with how people are supposed to think. Being mindful of things is what it's all about.

In politics it's become very pronounced and rather two sided. Each side is very concerned that the other side is not being mindful enough of certain things.

To me, there seems to be an overlap. A struggle for the same thing. Most people think other people don't see what they're supposed to see. Same thing with thinking.

The only solution is what the acclaimed physicist pointed to in my opinion. One mindedness. Single mindedness yet among many.

The idea of oneness is ancient. It pervades many a religion and many a philosophy. To me this is enough evidence that there's something to it. That there's something very important about it and whatever it is, it's true.

Isn't that what we all want to see? That everyone sees alike? That everyone thinks alike? About everything? Isn't that the maximum of mindfulness? All while maintaining those things that make us unique?

To me, this is how being conscious or mindful of the singular mind of the universe works.

It's the only way everyone will ever be on the "same page".

 

 

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, quillius said:

Hi Jay,

we also do see/experience 'conflict' through individual (our own) minds.

not sure as to the why.

 

 

Hi Quillius

Like father like son?

jmccr8

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Will Do said:

Isn't that what we all want to see? That everyone sees alike? That everyone thinks alike? About everything?

Not me, and I think that is possibly dangerous.  I think that the solutions to problems that arise with our species are many times not possible without people who think way outside of the box.  I would just like to see everyone follow a certain basic set of ground rules concerning their behavior, to me that would provide the foundation and security for people to think very differently and see where it takes them. 

[quillius]

13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Quillius

Like father like son?

jmccr8

one of many.

 

conflict is prevalent (IMO) throughout....beginning with an individuals conflict within their own mind...extending to any size group.

 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, quillius said:

one of many.

 

conflict is prevalent (IMO) throughout....beginning with an individuals conflict within their own mind...extending to any size group.

 

Hi Quillius

Yes I hate it when I get mad and lose an argument with myself and won't talk to me for weeks afterwards.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

My answer would be that his is because none of it is designed and created.

it is all a product of evolution and thus incomplete, evolving, and imperfect. 

Hi Walker

Pretty sure the mind is a constant and thoughts evolve.

jmccr8

[SHaYap]

An appeal for sanity... 

Quote

 

[00.01:25]

~

[quillius]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Quillius

Yes I hate it when I get mad and lose an argument with myself and won't talk to me for weeks afterwards.

jmccr8

lol.......although the peace from 'not talking' is always welcome 

Edited February 10, 2021 by quillius
PS- plus always worse when there is three in that equation- ie me myself and I- gets complicated

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, quillius said:

Hi Jay,

we also do see/experience 'conflict' through individual (our own) minds.

not sure as to the why.

 

 

In critical thinking, we call this cognitive dissonance. 

 

“Festinger's (1957) cognitive dissonance theory suggests that we have an inner drive to hold all our attitudes and behavior in harmony and avoid disharmony (or dissonance). This is known as the principle of cognitive consistency.“

For example: I am out walking my dog and realize I forgot to bring the little bags I use to clean up after him. I am  a mile from my place too. Now I am torn, do I leave it just this once, after all I always clean up, how can it hurt just this one time. I start to feel guilty, the idea of leaving my dogs mess on the beautifully manicured lawn is only magnifying the guilt, so I decide to walk the mile home and walk the mile back to clean it up after all getting in an extra mile of exercise is a bonus. 
 

“In Mindfulness one must understand that it is not intended to be a blissful experience. The objective is not to eliminate negative experiences or to only think positively or allow positive thoughts via repression. I call this micromanaging ones mental state. It might work for a while but eventually the problem returns. As a mindfulness practitioner one will still continue to have negative experiences or negativity in their heads right along the positive thoughts and experiences. In mindfulness, it is the practice of learning to recognize, allow, just be with ones experiences regardless, if they are positive or negative, pleasant or unpleasant, it is in this understanding or space that we can begin to exercise choices and reflective responses in our lives.” 
 

An ex: My employer had to be hospitalized during Covid, we literally had no choice and she was considered high risk for death if she caught Covid. The anxiety over this experience was unbearable, nothing helped, the worry and catastrophizing grew and I had myself convinced I may not ever see her again. I tried all kinds of ways to alleviate the nagging anxiety to no avail. Then I just decided to let it be, just be with it —that in fact it was valid and appropriate to be concerned for her, it was in giving myself this space that I was able to find a way to cope, basically extending compassion and empathy to myself, while I was still concerned it ceased to be all consuming. Turns out as a added bonus, my boss wore her mask (including sleeping in it) the whole 9 days at a hospital that had 3/4 Covid patients and she did not get Covid. This turned out to be useful in building confidence in the sense that wearing a mask does work to protect against Covid. 
 

For me, Cognitive dissonance isn’t a bad thing unless it interferes with my well being and often it leads to constructive solutions/resolutions and I approach mindfulness in a similar way. For me, in accepting actuality for what it is often opens doors for resolution. My understanding is that critical thinking ( albeit a rigorous approach) is on par with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or practicing Mindfulness at the end of the day they are similar in application and goals.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

7 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

There's a movement going on that has to do with how people are supposed to think. Being mindful of things is what it's all about.

In politics it's become very pronounced and rather two sided. Each side is very concerned that the other side is not being mindful enough of certain things.

To me, there seems to be an overlap. A struggle for the same thing. Most people think other people don't see what they're supposed to see. Same thing with thinking.

The only solution is what the acclaimed physicist pointed to in my opinion. One mindedness. Single mindedness yet among many.

The idea of oneness is ancient. It pervades many a religion and many a philosophy. To me this is enough evidence that there's something to it. That there's something very important about it and whatever it is, it's true.

Isn't that what we all want to see? That everyone sees alike? That everyone thinks alike? About everything? Isn't that the maximum of mindfulness? All while maintaining those things that make us unique?

To me, this is how being conscious or mindful of the singular mind of the universe works.

It's the only way everyone will ever be on the "same page".

 

 

I would agree that current politics is a good example of cognitive dissonance at its extreme, fueled by conspiracy theory and magical thinking that has sadly led to serious harm and death. I hope we collectively find our way out as the polarization and divisiveness is not working. 

Mindfulness/mindlessness or irrational thinking/critical thinking or being stuck in toxic behaviors patterns/CBT depending on the path. My two cents is when we get a factual picture of what is actually going on we can unify in constructive discussion or resolutions and go from there. I don’t think we all need to think the same or agree, but we need to have an accurate fact based picture of what is. What is the evidence is an important question whether one is mindful or not. Your thoughts? 

I appreciate the oneness idea, I call this being in the Zone basically feeling a inner peace and contentment that comes and goes, sometimes it lasts a moment, sometimes for days, sometimes not at all. A mindfulness practitioner works at not attaching to outcomes or clinging to certain experiences, yet at the same time understanding there will be times we do suffer or are anxious. The point is to be non judgmental, open to resolution. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sherapy

[+joc]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:23 PM, Sherapy said:

Thank you for sharing, Question what tools do you use to counter your humanness? For example, if you do find you are worrying what tool do you use to bring yourself back to the present?

I never find myself worrying because I don't worry.

 

On 2/8/2021 at 6:23 PM, Sherapy said:

For me, I literally stop ask myself in this moment right now what is wrong if anything and I ask myself what can I do to fix it, if there is something I fix it and if I can’t, I let it go.

The exact reason I removed the word Hope from my vocabulary.   We Hope for things we have no control over.  If you have control over something...change it.  If you don't let it go.  Hope is like worry.  We can hope things work out.  The truth is...if you do the work to make it work out it usually will. 

On 2/8/2021 at 6:23 PM, Sherapy said:

I too use my work to practice loving kindness and compassion and my personal relationship to nurture my best self, it provides ample opportunity to challenge myself to keep my ego in check. 

My ego is never in check.  It's all about me.  I help people because it makes me feel good.  I think it is impossible to separate self from ego.  It's always about us.  Always.  That being said...it's never about me.  It's always about the other person.  I would drown trying to save you from drowning.  But then again how could I live with myself if I just watched you drown and didn't even try to save you.  So, it is all about me.  It is always about me.  No matter how you dice it...my ego never gets checked. 

[+Sherapy]

26 minutes ago, joc said:

I never find myself worrying because I don't worry.

 

The exact reason I removed the word Hope from my vocabulary.   We Hope for things we have no control over.  If you have control over something...change it.  If you don't let it go.  Hope is like worry.  We can hope things work out.  The truth is...if you do the work to make it work out it usually will. 

My ego is never in check.  It's all about me.  I help people because it makes me feel good.  I think it is impossible to separate self from ego.  It's always about us.  Always.  That being said...it's never about me.  It's always about the other person.  I would drown trying to save you from drowning.  But then again how could I live with myself if I just watched you drown and didn't even try to save you.  So, it is all about me.  It is always about me.  No matter how you dice it...my ego never gets checked. 

Thank you for your thoughts. I like the if you can fix it change it if you can’t let it go. My husband taught me the same thing and it does help immensely for an incessant worrier. 
 

Yet, in my humanness for the occasional times I worry— now, I just let it be, and observe it as it runs its course. For me, I find a lot of liberation and freedom in mindfulness by just letting my experiences arise and going from there. Sometimes, I do nothing but, allow myself worry and observe the sensations, I allow myself to be uncomfortable and what I notice is in letting myself experience “the worry” it resolves on its own, not that I never worry or ever worry will again. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sherapy

[+joc]

8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you for your thoughts. I like the if you can fix it change it if you can’t let it go. My husband taught me the same thing and it does help immensely for an incessant worrier. 
 

Yet, in my humanness for the occasional times I worry— now, I just let it be, and observe it as it runs its course. For me, I find a lot of liberation and freedom in mindfulness by just letting my experiences arise and going from there. Sometimes, I do nothing but, allow myself worry and observe the sensations, I allow myself to be uncomfortable,and what I notice is in letting myself experience  “the worry” it resolves on its own, not that I never worry or ever worry will again. 

I remember hearing somewhere along the way, a long, long time ago...Worry is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it doesn't really get you anywhere.  

But to actually answer your first  question in a more astute way than...I don't ever worry dude!:  It's all about fear... finding it, identifying it, and resolving it.  Napoleon Hill said that at the bottom of most peoples worries is fear.  He also said, Fear is the great mind killer.  So, it is very important to realize that if we are worrying, that we are afraid.  Once we admit we are afraid, we can isolate the fear.  Once we isolate the fear, we can confront it.  Confronting fear is the greatest tool for overcoming it.  Many people go through life not even realizing they are afraid.  Find the fear, kill it!  Nothing to worry about.

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, joc said:

I remember hearing somewhere along the way, a long, long time ago...Worry is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it doesn't really get you anywhere.  

But to actually answer your first  question in a more astute way than...I don't ever worry dude!:  It's all about fear... finding it, identifying it, and resolving it.  Napoleon Hill said that at the bottom of most peoples worries is fear.  He also said, Fear is the great mind killer.  So, it is very important to realize that if we are worrying, that we are afraid.  Once we admit we are afraid, we can isolate the fear.  Once we isolate the fear, we can confront it.  Confronting fear is the greatest tool for overcoming it.  Many people go through life not even realizing they are afraid.  Find the fear, kill it!  Nothing to worry about.

What will be, will be. Most of the time it isn't up to me.

[+joc]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What will be, will be. Most of the time it isn't up to me.

Hmmm...okay.  I kind of think that most of the time it is entirely up to me.  Here are the things I have no control over.  The weather.  I just deal with it.  Politics.  I just deal with it.  Those are two areas of life.   I'm thinking about other areas of life which I have no control over.  Help me out here Boss...

[+Sherapy]

28 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What will be, will be. Most of the time it isn't up to me.

Meaning acceptance of what is and going from there or apathetic?

[XenoFish]

26 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Meaning acceptance of what is and going from there or apathetic?

If I throw a ball I can only control the direction so much, I can't make it hit the target all the time. So I can accept what happens as it makes its way to the target, accept the lack of iron fisted control, and either accept the results as is or indifferently. It is what it is and will be what it will be. 

43 minutes ago, joc said:

Hmmm...okay.  I kind of think that most of the time it is entirely up to me.  Here are the things I have no control over.  The weather.  I just deal with it.  Politics.  I just deal with it.  Those are two areas of life.   I'm thinking about other areas of life which I have no control over.  Help me out here Boss...

From personal experience which means a useless anecdote. I can't control much that goes on around me. I can only control what I do and what I think. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by XenoFish

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, joc said:

My ego is never in check.

https://www.psychologydiscussion.net/ego/functions-of-ego-notes-on-the-functions-of-ego/495

I get the feeling most people look at ego as a bad thing when its more personality than ego. I tend to look at the ID as being an impulsive child, the Ego as being our window to reality (consciousness) and self regulator, and Super-Ego as being our habits. That's just me though. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by XenoFish

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If I throw a ball I can only control the direction so much, I can't make it hit the target all the time. So I can accept what happens as it makes it way to the target, accept the lack of iron fisted control, and either accept the results as is or indifferently. It is what it is and will be what it will be. 

From personal experience which means a useless anecdote. I can't control much that goes on around me. I can only control what I do and what I think. 

And that involves the incorporation of the n't in the thought process.  Without the n't it reads much differently...I can control much that goes on around me.  Some might say that is a false statement.  But I do have a lot of control over what other people do.

Like for example traffic.  Driving in traffic, especially around here is a risky business.  I have found however, that to a certain degree I can indeed control the traffic around me.  Speeding up a little bit.  Slowing down a little bit.  Avoiding the pockets of bumper to bumper, etc.  Watching to avoid things that are fifteen seconds ahead of my game.  I avoid the potential for head-on collisions by avoiding the one road where that certain death happens way to often.  I just found a better path to follow...it involves a pig farm and a couple of horse farms and it takes longer...still...   I can only control what I do and what I think...and I have found that I can think better without gumming up the works by incorporating that damned n't.  

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, joc said:

And that involves the incorporation of the n't in the thought process.  Without the n't it reads much differently...I can control much that goes on around me.  Some might say that is a false statement.  But I do have a lot of control over what other people do.

Like for example traffic.  Driving in traffic, especially around here is a risky business.  I have found however, that to a certain degree I can indeed control the traffic around me.  Speeding up a little bit.  Slowing down a little bit.  Avoiding the pockets of bumper to bumper, etc.  Watching to avoid things that are fifteen seconds ahead of my game.  I avoid the potential for head-on collisions by avoiding the one road where that certain death happens way to often.  I just found a better path to follow...it involves a pig farm and a couple of horse farms and it takes longer...still...   I can only control what I do and what I think...and I have found that I can think better without gumming up the works by incorporating that damned n't.  

This still goes toward what you can control and what you can't. You might be able to manipulate things to a degree, but there is always that X factor. Where one person does one thing and it leads to a lot of messed up events. The n't part is probably due to me being more pessimistic than most. 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Hmmm...okay.  I kind of think that most of the time it is entirely up to me.  Here are the things I have no control over.  The weather.  I just deal with it.  Politics.  I just deal with it.  Those are two areas of life.   I'm thinking about other areas of life which I have no control over.  Help me out here Boss...

I think this aligns with your fix what you can and let the rest go. 
Identifying the issue is important too, it could be emotional, behavioral, mental involving all these.

For ex: if a person worries has a lot of anxiety, can’t shut their minds off, can’t sleep as a result and their well being over time is compromised their relationships suffer due to the stress they succumb to constant rumination, catastrophizing and adopt toxic habits of coping, I think this is cause for finding a better way and the idea that one could be served by looking into the aspect of the things they can change is a good idea in my world. 
 

I went into stress management mindfulness based therapy due to the high levels of stress and depression and chronic health issues that can arise from being a professional caregiver. I observed in myself that I didn’t have the level of coping skills needed to navigate the anxiety and the stress on the job rather quickly. Once I learned the tools and applied them they have culminated into there are things I can affect, there are things I can’t and making this distinction helps immensely. And, a good amount of my anxiety came from childhood traumas and in exploring the patterns I was able to heal too. Now, I just experience an appropriate amount of stress and have the tools to navigate.. Like I said earlier there are moments experiences come my way that being anxious would be a valid response. I will get anxious at times, I am human first, 
I find that allowing my humanity works well for me. I think we find what works for us each as individuals, there isn’t just one approach. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sherapy