Mindfulness

[+Sherapy]

20 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Why should I let personal insults and harmful ignorance go?

And there was no error concerning the ego.

This is all part of the OPs question on mindfulness, and how one might learn to be better, more wholesome and honest.

Don't worry, this will be my last post here.

 

 

There is no reason for you to leave perhaps you could see this as an opportunity for you to apply mindfulness. 
 

If you are taking things personal you are not in a state of mindfulness, you are caught up in your own mental drama, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing but an opportunity to explore and grow. 
 

No reason to be so hard on yourself. Mindfulness is a practice, and challenging, not a one stop destination. 
 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sherapy

[spartan max2]

46 minutes ago, joc said:

But I think what is important is,  in a nutshell; How we see our own self in relation to how we see other people.

Just my random musings, but I agree with your nutshell and would take it even further by saying that human egos are not possible without other humans to relate to.

Can an ego exist in isolation?

A thought expierment but if an adult human existed without any contact with any other humans. Would that human still have an ego?

((Not using Freuds definition))

((Let me know Sherpay if I am taking this too far off topic))

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by spartan max2

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Just my random musings, but I agree with your nutshell and would take it even further by saying that human egos are not possible without other humans to relate to.

Can an ego exist in isolation?

A thought expierment but if an adult human existed without any contact with any other humans. Would that human still have an ego?

((Not using Freuds definition))

((Let me know Sherpay if I am taking this too far off topic))

 

What an excellent question. Let me ponder this for a bit. 

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

If you are taking things personal you are not in a state of mindfulness, you are caught up in your own mental drama, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing but an opportunity to explore and grow. 

I don't see this thread as a train wreck at all...quite the opposite...more of an illustrative, insightful glimpse into the human psyche.  

You were very inclusive in this thread...skeptics, believers, and spiritual all welcome to take part.  So...on a Spiritual Level...Jesus did address some of these things...It has been said of old, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you, if someone slaps you on the right cheek turn to them also the left.   

It is really easy to counter attack if one feels they are being attacked.  But should it be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?  What is left as the end result?  The way I see it, an awful lot of eyeless, toothless individuals running around attacking and counterattacking each other.  And why?   Because  'feelings' got hurt? 

It is in these types of situations where we need to be  mindful ...about all of that.  Or, are we supposed to be mindful only when it doesn't involve any real life friction?

 

[+joc]

19 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

No reason to be so hard on yourself. Mindfulness is a practice not a destination. 

I know what you are saying...and I agree... but then again...I think it has to be both.   Mindfulness as a practice...and Mindfulness as a destination.  The place we want to end up is being mindful when it very hard to do so, and we only get there from practice.  

Like Chevy Chase said in that movie, See your future, Be your future.  Practice being mindful, so that you can actually Be mindful...when it counts for something.

[+Sherapy]

29 minutes ago, joc said:

I don't see this thread as a train wreck at all...quite the opposite...more of an illustrative, insightful glimpse into the human psyche.  

You were very inclusive in this thread...skeptics, believers, and spiritual all welcome to take part.  So...on a Spiritual Level...Jesus did address some of these things...It has been said of old, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you, if someone slaps you on the right cheek turn to them also the left.   

It is really easy to counter attack if one feels they are being attacked.  But should it be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?  What is left as the end result?  The way I see it, an awful lot of eyeless, toothless individuals running around attacking and counterattacking each other.  And why?   Because  'feelings' got hurt? 

It is in these types of situations where we need to be  mindful ...about all of that.  Or, are we supposed to be mindful only when it doesn't involve any real life friction?

 

Excellent pull, Joc. I was thinking it is a good thing that the situation arose with CH, what a fun opportunity to refine and explore mindfulness. As you, I think it is the real life friction that has the best chance of being a catalyst for change. 
 

I find that an ability to hear feedback in a detached non personal way is a big hurdle to overcome for many. 
 

The Jesus quote is a good one to make your point. Reactive or reflective. Depending on how serious one takes mindfulness on any given day plays a part in how one responds. Some moments I react, Some I reflect.

I would add that it isn’t the worst approach to come from our authentic humanness, the conflicts bring the opportunity’s to challenge ourselves to growth. 
 

I observe that CH wants to be mindful and for me this is a good start. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

11 minutes ago, joc said:

I know what you are saying...and I agree... but then again...I think it has to be both.   Mindfulness as a practice...and Mindfulness as a destination.  The place we want to end up is being mindful when it very hard to do so, and we only get there from practice.  

Like Chevy Chase said in that movie, See your future, Be your future.  Practice being mindful, so that you can actually Be mindful...when it counts for something.

Hmmm, Good point, I revise/ reframe it this way; the goal (destination) of mindfulness is to make a practice of showing up fully in-the moment and resolving from there. 
 

Your thoughts, feedback?

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hmmm, Good point, I revise/ reframe it this way; the goal (destination) of mindfulness is to make a practice of showing up fully in-the moment and resolving from there. 
 

Your thoughts, feedback?

I will go Exactamundo on that!   When my daughter was taking piano, her teacher gave her a Quote to put ...and leave...on the piano:  Practice makes Talent!  

Want to become proficient on a musical instrument?  Then    p r a c t i c e   not just when it is convenient, but all the time.  If being mindful is the goal, then yes, we need to practice being mindful all the time...in the moment...especially in the moment where being mindful actually matters.

[+joc]

14 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Your thoughts, feedback?

Just reflecting back on a time when you and I use to have knock down drag outs....I would say we have both come a long way down the road to being Mindful.  

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, joc said:

I will go Exactamundo on that!   When my daughter was taking piano, her teacher gave her a Quote to put ...and leave...on the piano:  Practice makes Talent!  

Want to become proficient on a musical instrument?  Then    p r a c t i c e   not just when it is convenient, but all the time.  If being mindful is the goal, then yes, we need to practice being mindful all the time...in the moment...especially in the moment where being mindful actually matters.

Damn we make a good team, all of us, 

I deeply appreciate your contributions.

Eighty and I wanted to have a thread that is constructive for us all. I think we are off to a good start. 

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, joc said:

Just reflecting back on a time when you and I use to have knock down drag outs....I would say we have both come a long way down the road to being Mindful.  

Right! 

It was an eye opening exchange for me, it has been my most challenging relationships that have been my greatest opportunities for growth, for which I am grateful. 
 

I want to add too that having a sense of humor about oneself or lightening up is a defense mechanism too, it helps us not take things so personally. 
 

Who can’t appreciate a good chuckle at themselves, personally, I try and laugh the hardest if it’s me, now this wasn’t always the case and there are moments it still isn’t mind you, but lucky for me I live with a partner who loves to poke a bit of fun... 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sherapy

[eight bits]

Just a note on ego. It is a hard word to pin down.

Jung and Freud had a horrific falling out, and never reconciled. One effect of that discord was that Jung used "Freudian" language, but in different ways than Freud had. Ego was one of those terms. Freud's ideas have already been posted, For Jung, ego was whatever in the self was currently concscious. Just that, and with an emphasis on currently - ego could expand, contract, be overwhelmed, inflate ... a dynamic thing with little fixed about it, except being conscious.

So, there are at least two "technical" conceptions of the thing. I doubt either of them has much to do with why egotistical isn't a compliment, why teams of all kinds are advised to leave your egos in your lockers.

The range of things that come under ego in everyday language is vast: maybe any unsavory behavior at all where self-regard is a contributing factor, whether it's big things like greed or small things like talking about oneself a bit more than others are interested.

Meanwhile, positive things that come under the functions of ego in the technical sense don't seem to get called that in everyday language. It is ego that impels me to brush my teeth with some regularity, but nobody says it that way in real life.

Obviously, I wouldn't want to be rid of my technical-sense ego (either Jung's or Freud's sense) - my teeth would all fall out.

So, this ego that some would rather not have must be something else, and something in need of a defintiion before anybody could really judge whether they're better off without it. Meanwhile, I am in accord with @Desertrat56's appeal to balance as applied to self-regard. Balance is very Jungian (which is where my ego feels comfortable).

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by eight bits

[XenoFish]

Gonna be honest Jung confuses me.

[XenoFish]

59 minutes ago, eight bits said:

So, this ego that some would rather not have must be something else, and something in need of a defintiion before anybody could really judge whether they're better off without it.

The complaints typically (as far as I've noticed) seem to focus on personality traits. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by XenoFish

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The complaints typically (as far as I've noticed) seem to focus on personality traits. 

I have met a lot of new agers who focus on unpleasant emotions being caused by "ego" and we are not supposed to have (acknowledge) unpleasant emotions as far as they are concerned.   Bliss bunnies usually, but sometimes just people who like to claim something is negative as their excuse for avoidance.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Desertrat56

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have met a lot of new agers who focus on unpleasant emotions being caused by "ego" and we are not supposed to have (acknowledge) unpleasant emotions as far as they are concerned.   Bliss bunnies usually, but sometimes just people who like to claim something is negative as their excuse for avoidance.

They get this idea that anything negative is wrong and feeling negative emotion is basically a "sin", so that's what they focus on and think it's ego causing it. Which it's really them. It's not so much the emotions, but what we do because of them.

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

When have I ever said that I think that I have it all figured out?

That's right, I have never said, or intimated such a thing.

It is you who needs to pay attention to anybody who has a good character, (and there are plenty on here) and not that idiotic ego.

Hi Crazy Horse

You are have this discussion in the Spirituality, religion and beliefs forum whereas here in the skeptics forum we look beyond the touchy feel good to the more critical aspects as defined by science. You may find that you would be more comfortable with your construct in the other forum.

This is not to say you are not welcome to engage but should understand that we are not going to conform to the other forums standard as this one serves a different purpose and engages topics with different criteria for discussion.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

See the above post.

Ego is full of self importance and self esteem.

Getting rid of ego through a mindfulness practice is not only possible, but practical if one wants to live harmoniously and in peace.

As for, service to self, that depends upon the intent behind the action, eg, do I want to become wiser, so I may help more people, isn't wrong..

 

Hi Crazy Horse

Your ego is what brought you to this thread to complain about something you don't understand.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Really?

So just go over this thread and pick one of the many points that you have "scored" over me.

By all means stick to the OP.

And just one last example from the above post.

You attack me personally, "all happy thoughts and kitty cat fart". completely nonsensical, and yet you claim the moral high ground.

Your ego is showing

jmccr8

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Your ego is showing

jmccr8

Oh, brother, that is exactly what the discussion of the use of the word "ego" is pointing out, it is being used as a negative when in fact you are not really talking about the "ego".   That is why CH claims "ego" is bad.  How about finding a different word, too many are confused enough already.    What about attitude, or emotional insecurity?  Those fit more appropriately in my opinion.

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Damn we make a good team, all of us, 

I deeply appreciate your contributions.

Eighty and I wanted to have a thread that is constructive for us all. I think we are off to a good start. 

it is a good thread.  Good job.  

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Oh, brother, that is exactly what the discussion of the use of the word "ego" is pointing out, it is being used as a negative when in fact you are not really talking about the "ego".   That is why CH claims "ego" is bad.  How about finding a different word, too many are confused enough already.    What about attitude, or emotional insecurity?  Those fit more appropriately in my opinion.

Hi Desertrat

From what I have seen in comments of his in this thread and the one in the other forum that I am not posting in as a skeptic he is in this thread because of his ego nothing more.

edited to add

I am going to be mindful and not continue quoting or responding to him in this skeptics forum

jmccr8

Edited February 11, 2021 by jmccr8
added context

[+joc]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Desertrat

From what I have seen in comments of his in this thread and the one in the other forum that I am not posting in as a skeptic he is in this thread because of his ego nothing more.

jmccr8

I think that talking about other members in a Mindfulness thread...isn't really being all that mindful.  See...I'm talking to you...not about you.  We all have different perspectives on all sorts of things and one thing that people incessantly fight over is their interpretation of the English language.  Misunderstanding of terms like    Ego    for example.  Semantics!  

If you asked 100 people at random to write down one sentence defining Ego, you would probably get 100 different definitions. 

So maybe we just drop the Ego word and start talking about the way we all act...which is really what being mindful is about to me.  How we act.  Not what we feel...but how we act. Especially how we act toward other human beings and why.

[XenoFish]

12 minutes ago, joc said:

the way we all act

The actions we take make us who we are. Even if that means putting aside our pride or arrogance. 

None of us are one dimensional characters.

Edited February 11, 2021 by XenoFish

[jmccr8]

8 minutes ago, joc said:

I think that talking about other members in a Mindfulness thread...isn't really being all that mindful.  See...I'm talking to you...not about you.  We all have different perspectives on all sorts of things and one thing that people incessantly fight over is their interpretation of the English language.  Misunderstanding of terms like    Ego    for example.  Semantics!  

If you asked 100 people at random to write down one sentence defining Ego, you would probably get 100 different definitions. 

So maybe we just drop the Ego word and start talking about the way we all act...which is really what being mindful is about to me.  How we act.  Not what we feel...but how we act. Especially how we act toward other human beings and why.

 

14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I am going to be mindful and not continue quoting or responding to him in this skeptics forum

jmccr8

Hi Joc

No offence but if I saw a guy going into the ladies room I would tell him. You have me on ignore so I am not sure why you are quoting me given that I said I will not quote him again in this thread so lets put it to bed.

jmccr8