Mindfulness

[Peggy aka Moonchaser]

When I meditate, holding my palms up on my knees with thumb and pointer touching, I make a mental connection of points that create a triangle using the touching points on my fingers and my third eye as the top of the pyramid or triangle.  I breathe in and out several times with the word Gratitude, then Kindness, then Love.  Then I still my thoughts and imagine little lights on the neural pathways of my brain being turned off.  Any and all thoughts that 'show up' I treat as clouds passing by.  I do 3 things before I begin my meditation.  1. I tell anyone/everyone, if applicabl,e that I am going to meditation so that I am not disturbed.  2. I ask divinity to remind me of anything I may wish to remember from my wandering mind, after my meditation period is finished, so that I do not get snagged.  This has never failed me!   And 3, I set a timer on my phone with a lovely chime to bring me back, so that I don't think of or worry about time at all. 

 

[Peggy aka Moonchaser]

Every time we are Mindful we get a better outcome.  We can survive by shooting from the hip... but it can be a damn rocky road, ......seemingly, un-necessarily so.   Mindfulness mitigates before we mess up.

 Just my thoughts on it. ~Peg

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

In my experience;  (and  I am the only mind I can be sure about ) the mind is never silent unless it is  deeply unconscious Even when asleep and dreaming I am conscious and aware of who i am and that I am dreaming.

  Even in my dreams I am choosing and constructing my thoughts 

The idea of  an empty mind, before one is dead  or knocked out,  is incomprehensible to me.

I dont believe its possible, but again, that is because I  cant experience it 

eg one would not know who one was, where one was. etc. One would have no thought or memory of past, present or future.   One would not have any feeling of sensation . Indeed one would no longer actually be "alive"  to either inner or outer sensory experiences

I think you are talking about something else, such as focus or clarity of mind, not emptiness of mind 

My mind is always focussed and clear. I don't have any thoughts which I dont construct deliberately   I dont take drugs or alcohol, so my mind is never confused  or clouded  

I dont have to empty it to achieve this. It's been that way, constantly, for over 50 years, at least  

The application of data and logic, combined with experience,  means that thoughts are always consistent and productive.

There is no angst, confusion, doubt,  or conflict in my mind, ever.

Data, logic, and experience, will always give the best possible outcome available when applied .   Or at worst, ONE of the best possible outcomes 

Fascinating.....

I can make my mind silent without loosing consciousness.

I can sit and watch a film on Netflix having no thoughts in relation to it at all. When I`ve finished I wont even remember a single thing about the film. Despite me letting it beam away unrestricted into my eyeballs.

Somethings I have noticed if I do my no thoughts routine too much is I start to loose awareness of the passage of time, and sense of distance, and I find it hard to snap out of it too. Its like once the mind is silent its a struggle getting it to have any thoughts again.

[Mr Walker]

35 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Fascinating.....

I can make my mind silent without loosing consciousness.

I can sit and watch a film on Netflix having no thoughts in relation to it at all. When I`ve finished I wont even remember a single thing about the film. Despite me letting it beam away unrestricted into my eyeballs.

Somethings I have noticed if I do my no thoughts routine too much is I start to loose awareness of the passage of time, and sense of distance, and I find it hard to snap out of it too. Its like once the mind is silent its a struggle getting it to have any thoughts again.

 your experience is fascinating to me also

Now why do this? What is the end result sought ?

If it is, then to learn to shape and control your thoughts, rather than have them randomly generated, I can understand this, but I came to the same result as a child using a different approach 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, eight bits said:

Just as is imagining what non-existence "is like." It isn't like anything, there is no thing to imagine. I think therefore I am not non-existent, so to speak.

Of course, we can recall that we were non-existent before we came into being, but not the qualia of not being, since there are no such qualia to recall.

Somewhere in that there is something Zen.

 correct I think

but I am not sure about the use of words 

because we have known nonexistence we can "recall " it and we can certainly  imagine it. ie we know what non existence is like 

Even a deep sleep or strong anaesthetic creates a nothingness we can recall being in  when we wake  

The only difference with death might be that we never awaken to recall what it was like, But to me its just like my pre-existence .ie  Nothing at all 

Which definition or type of qualia are you referring to?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/

[eight bits]

11 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Which definition or type of qualia are you referring to?

The affect and sensations which accompany experience.

21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

because we have known nonexistence we can "recall " it and we can certainly  imagine it. ie we know what non existence is like 

As I said, I can recall that I didn't always exist. I didn't experience it, however, and so I have no affect or sensations accompanyng my non-experience of non-existence to recall.

The non-existence that can be experienced is not truly non-existence.

I think I did a Zen

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

The affect and sensations which accompany experience.

As I said, I can recall that I didn't always exist. I didn't experience it, however, and so I have no affect or sensations accompanyng my non-experience of non-existence to recall.

The non-existence that can be experienced is not truly non-existence.

I think I did a Zen

The space between thought and non attachment the experience of the presence or awareness often described as silence or space. This is consciousness at its purest ( clarity) and this is what one finds there naturally it feels like calm and peace. I call it clearest he’d space there is no attachment to ego or thought, there is non judgement and openness this is how to gauge perspectives. The more non judgmental ( ego bound) the lower the consciousness one works from  it shows up as  unbending, dogmatic, rigid mindset, lots of I statements an inability to communicate and understand others etc etc.

Also a great gauge of ones raised consciousness is seen in an ability to be non judgmental and open, not a woo openness, but the open mind that is open to learning. 

@Cookie Monster You do not meditate and one doesn’t t make their mind silent, they go to the silence that is already there. Yours  is the thinking mind( ego)talking. This is just silly talk not meditation. Why not start meditating and share your experience then, I would love to hear your experiences. There are lots of way to meditate can I help you with suggestions? 

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Fascinating.....

I can make my mind silent without loosing consciousness.

I can sit and watch a film on Netflix having no thoughts in relation to it at all. When I`ve finished I wont even remember a single thing about the film. Despite me letting it beam away unrestricted into my eyeballs.

Somethings I have noticed if I do my no thoughts routine too much is I start to loose awareness of the passage of time, and sense of distance, and I find it hard to snap out of it too. Its like once the mind is silent its a struggle getting it to have any thoughts again.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 your experience is fascinating to me also

Now why do this? What is the end result sought ?

If it is, then to learn to shape and control your thoughts, rather than have them randomly generated, I can understand this, but I came to the same result as a child using a different approach 

MW the best thing you can do at this point is meditate, practice for yourself this will be your experience of meditation. I appreciate your posts but it is difficult to share the experience of meditation with one who doesn’t practice and then asks for suggestions from a poster who doesn’t meditate.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Peggy aka Moonchaser said:

When I meditate, holding my palms up on my knees with thumb and pointer touching, I make a mental connection of points that create a triangle using the touching points on my fingers and my third eye as the top of the pyramid or triangle.  I breathe in and out several times with the word Gratitude, then Kindness, then Love.  Then I still my thoughts and imagine little lights on the neural pathways of my brain being turned off.  Any and all thoughts that 'show up' I treat as clouds passing by.  I do 3 things before I begin my meditation.  1. I tell anyone/everyone, if applicabl,e that I am going to meditation so that I am not disturbed.  2. I ask divinity to remind me of anything I may wish to remember from my wandering mind, after my meditation period is finished, so that I do not get snagged.  This has never failed me!   And 3, I set a timer on my phone with a lovely chime to bring me back, so that I don't think of or worry about time at all. 

 

Love this, thank you for sharing. 

[SHaYap]

There is the ascetic discipline of meditation and then there is the meditative state of mind, never mistake one for the other...

~ 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

There is the ascetic discipline of meditation and then there is the meditative state of mind, never mistake one for the other...

~ 

Can you expand on this, thank you

 

I got it, thanks google. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

Asceticism occurs in most societies, usually founded on the rigors of denial and suffering to produce an altered state of consciousness.  It is much same as Native American vision quests, which I would describe as contemplative delirium. Zen teachings can be confusing because of imperfect translations, especially where words like "open" and "empty" are concerned. "Contemplative" and "receptive" are closer to the true meaning. One must receive that which one becomes aware of and contemplate the meaning in a relaxed and expansive frame of mind. It is like wading into the middle of a stream, aware of the water flowing around you. One does not ask the why of things. One simply accepts the is of things.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, eight bits said:

The affect and sensations which accompany experience.

As I said, I can recall that I didn't always exist. I didn't experience it, however, and so I have no affect or sensations accompanyng my non-experience of non-existence to recall.

The non-existence that can be experienced is not truly non-existence.

I think I did a Zen

That's  a fair  assumption .

I am less certain (but not enough to outright argue with you)    

We once did not exist and some of us  "cease to exist"  every night in deep sleep.

   thus we "know' what future non existence will be like.

It will be identical to the non existence which preceded us,    and very, very, similar to that deep sleep 

It depends if you  define qualia as only applicable to experienced sensations or also to imagined/ understood  ones.   Read enough  and IMO your mind can construct qualia from what you have read of other's experiences, despite you  never having had those experiences  It can also develop qualia from  imagination    

Edited February 25, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Duke Wellington]

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

your experience is fascinating to me also

Now why do this? What is the end result sought ?

If it is, then to learn to shape and control your thoughts, rather than have them randomly generated, I can understand this, but I came to the same result as a child using a different approach 

Yes, it allows you to act as the gate keeper of your mind by deciding which thoughts you wont allow. Same outcome, but a different approach.

But for me its about mysticism. I`m in pursuit of the cessation of all thoughts and have some success with it. I`m working off the view that the original condition was God, and that it is thoughts which fractured God up into ourselves and the universe we experience.

So I`m in pursuit of putting God back together, and seeing if indeed its thoughts stopping that.

[Will Due]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I`m working off the view that the original condition was God, and that it is thoughts which fractured God up into ourselves and the universe we experience.

So I`m in pursuit of putting God back together, and seeing if indeed its thoughts stopping that.

 

But what if the process of "putting God back together" is a process of initiating certain types of thoughts instead of stopping thoughts altogether?

That way it's a simple matter of thought adjustment instead of thought elimination.

If God has fragmented himself into us, then we have an opportunity to become a part of it with him.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Will Do

[+Sherapy]

9 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Yes, it allows you to act as the gate keeper of your mind by deciding which thoughts you wont allow. Same outcome, but a different approach.

But for me its about mysticism. I`m in pursuit of the cessation of all thoughts and have some success with it. I`m working off the view that the original condition was God, and that it is thoughts which fractured God up into ourselves and the universe we experience.

So I`m in pursuit of putting God back together, and seeing if indeed its thoughts stopping that.

This is a great example of attachment to a mindset, caught in the ego mind. 
 

“The true purpose [of Zen] is to see things as they are, to observe things as they are, and to let everything go as it goes... Zen practice is to open up our small mind.” 
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sherapy

[Duke Wellington]

7 hours ago, Will Do said:

But what if the process of "putting God back together" is a process of initiating certain types of thoughts instead of stopping thoughts altogether?

That way it's a simple matter of thought adjustment instead of thought elimination.

If God has fragmented himself into us, then we have an opportunity to become a part of it with him.

Do you mean being moral in the mind?

[Duke Wellington]

Just now, Sherapy said:

This is a great example of attachment to a mindset, caught in the ego mind. 
 

“The true purpose [of Zen] is to see things as they are, to observe things as they are, and to let everything go as it goes... Zen practice is to open up our small mind.” 
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

The ego is only a bad thing if it causes suffering.

Regarding our egos, then to supress them arent we really denying who we are? We should enjoy them, and learn to manage them so that we can avoid suffering.

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The ego is only a bad thing if it causes suffering.

Regarding our egos, then to supress them arent we really denying who we are? We should enjoy them, and learn to manage them so that we can avoid suffering.

One doesn’t suppress the ego. You are not your thoughts, you are stuck in your ego this is not good or bad or right or wrong, it just isn’t zen. 

 

CM the best thing you can do to get this real fast is practice meditation. Choose a style that works for you. 
 

Start there, then post.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Sherapy

[Duke Wellington]

22 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

One doesn’t suppress the ego. You are not your thoughts, you are stuck in your ego this is not good or bad or right or wrong, it just isn’t zen. 

CM the best thing you can do to get this real fast is practice meditation. Choose a style that works for you. 

Start there, then post.

I dont get the need for it, like I say if I start thinking in a way that stresses me out or makes me angry I just shut off those thoughts.

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

Do you mean being moral in the mind?

 

Yes.

As long as one's morality is doing what's ACTUALLY right instead of doing what's only thought of as right.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Will Do

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I dont get the need for it, like I say if I start thinking in a way that stresses me out or makes me angry I just shut off those thoughts.

Well, it will help with anxiety. Of course, this is only a suggestion. 

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I dont get the need for it, like I say if I start thinking in a way that stresses me out or makes me angry I just shut off those thoughts.

Hi Cookie

Isn't that avoidance,  how do you face underlying problems if you shut them out, where is the growth?

jmccr8

[XenoFish]

Why so much dislike for the negative. That's where the "Guts" of things are. Where you dig in and find the underlining problems and hopefully work on them. 

[+Sherapy]

25 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Cookie

Isn't that avoidance,  how do you face underlying problems if you shut them out, where is the growth?

jmccr8

Great point Jay, it is suppression or repression the idea that one can positive think their way out of anxiety or suffering. Like anything else eventually it will fail. 
 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Sherapy