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Raptor Witness

Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas

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Raptor Witness

Regarding the politics of this, my second post here was to try to help people avoid the plague of broken water pipes, because I have some experience with this. So it’s not all political. Most of U.S. are genuinely concerned about the people who are suffering. However, without challenging the facts, we can’t get to a better place, in the first place.

If you folks were connected to my grid, I would be more than happy to share some of my electricity with Texans, and I think most folks here would feel the same way, but for some crazy reason .....you guys in harms way in Texas, are not connected to the broader grid.

That is, unfortunately, partly a political problem.  

Edited by Raptor Witness
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Mantis914
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

We are good here as far as I know.  We are getting more snow and the temperatures are a lot lower than normal for this time of year, but I don't think we have gone below 0 except for one night and it was only -2.   I live in the "big" city and as far as I know no one has lost power or water.

and a lovely city it is!  Yeah, the worst was Monday but all the snow is still out there and packed down by now so it's just as bad as ice.  Stay warm, that's about all we can do until we thaw out by this weekend!

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Liquid Gardens
7 minutes ago, Mantis914 said:

Yeah and just like we sent troops of firefighters out there?  

Texas firefighters deployed to California to fight wildfires | wfaa.com

That's not the angle I was coming from, my understanding is no one is holding up any disaster relief for Texas.  Your complaint was about making disasters political, so just clarifying who all should be included in that complaint.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Mantis914 said:

and a lovely city it is!  Yeah, the worst was Monday but all the snow is still out there and packed down by now so it's just as bad as ice.  Stay warm, that's about all we can do until we thaw out by this weekend!

You stay safe and warm too.

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Hyperionxvii

We have to abandon fossil fuels because ice on the wind turbines and no sun for the solar panels this month == population control. SCIENCE! 

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Raptor Witness

At least their spirits are high in Texarkana, Texas. This is a frozen soap bubble.

This guy also reports that local gasoline pumps are running out of fuel in Texarkana, and major water mains are busted in the downtown area.

 

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Gromdor

I don't see how this is a fossil fuel vs renewable energy thing at all.  Both are freezing and Texas is still around 70% fossil fuels.  

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I don't see how this is a fossil fuel vs renewable energy thing at all.  Both are freezing and Texas is still around 70% fossil fuels.  

It is an infrastructure issue, or multiple issues.  A lot of things were supposed to be done that did not get done to prepare for this kind of weather.  It is not like there has never been a cold spell anywhere in Texas before.

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Hyperionxvii
5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I don't see how this is a fossil fuel vs renewable energy thing at all.  Both are freezing and Texas is still around 70% fossil fuels.  

Fossil fuels are freezing in TX?

I used to work with a lady who used to live in North Central Canada. I can't remember the town, but it was so cold there, that if you didn't have a heated garage to park your vehicle in, you had to keep it running 24/7 or the gas lines would freeze and you couldn't start it. 

Personally, the point of my comment is that our current alternatives, solar and wind, are not ready for primetime and all the propaganda and government funding in the world will not make it so. Our future real alternative is probably fusion. 

 

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Fossil fuels are freezing in TX?

I used to work with a lady who used to live in North Central Canada. I can't remember the town, but it was so cold there, that if you didn't have a heated garage to park your vehicle in, you had to keep it running 24/7 or the gas lines would freeze and you couldn't start it. 

Personally, the point of my comment is that our current alternatives, solar and wind, are not ready for primetime and all the propaganda and government funding in the world will not make it so. Our future real alternative is probably fusion. 

 

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?  Texas has been using those methods to increase the energy output through out the state for over 2 decades.  It works, and none of it would have failed, including the fossil fuel stations, if they had been prepared for extreme cold.   Choices were made and now those choices were mistakes.   So all that can be done is to move on and make sure the  mistakes get rectified.

My aunt lived in Alaska in the 70's and they had parking places with electrical outlets and contraptions you plugged in to keep the engine warm so that you did not have to run the engine 24/7.   

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Gromdor
7 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Fossil fuels are freezing in TX?

I used to work with a lady who used to live in North Central Canada. I can't remember the town, but it was so cold there, that if you didn't have a heated garage to park your vehicle in, you had to keep it running 24/7 or the gas lines would freeze and you couldn't start it. 

Personally, the point of my comment is that our current alternatives, solar and wind, are not ready for primetime and all the propaganda and government funding in the world will not make it so. Our future real alternative is probably fusion. 

 

Yes, the coal and natural gas plants in Texas are freezing as are the refineries and water treatment plants.  In fact, the fossil fuels side is down about 2/3 as much power because of the freezing at 28 gigawatts down vs 18 gigawatts renewable down.  No, frozen wind turbines aren’t to blame for Texas’ power outages | The Texas Tribune

(Of course that number matches the ratio of fossil fuels vs renewables in Texas so it is a pretty even drop.)

Edit to add:  We have the same stuff here in Iowa as you guys do in Texas except ours was built with a cold winter in mind.

Edited by Gromdor

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Hyperionxvii
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?  Texas has been using those methods to increase the energy output through out the state for over 2 decades.  It works, and none of it would have failed, including the fossil fuel stations, if they had been prepared for extreme cold.   Choices were made and now those choices were mistakes.   So all that can be done is to move on and make sure the  mistakes get rectified.

My aunt lived in Alaska in the 70's and they had parking places with electrical outlets and contraptions you plugged in to keep the engine warm so that you did not have to run the engine 24/7.   

"

  5 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Fossil fuels are freezing in TX?

I used to work with a lady who used to live in North Central Canada. I can't remember the town, but it was so cold there, that if you didn't have a heated garage to park your vehicle in, you had to keep it running 24/7 or the gas lines would freeze and you couldn't start it. 

Personally, the point of my comment is that our current alternatives, solar and wind, are not ready for primetime and all the propaganda and government funding in the world will not make it so. Our future real alternative is probably fusion. 

 

What does "not ready for prime time" mean?

What would happen if we stop fossil fuels, right now? What happens? How much of our current needs can be met, even with unsustainable subsidies? 

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Gromdor

We aren't stopping fossil fuels....  Natural gas is on the rise even as coal falls.  It burns cleaner and can be piped vs having to be trained in.  

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Hyperionxvii
Just now, Gromdor said:

We aren't stopping fossil fuels....  Natural gas is on the rise even as coal falls.  It burns cleaner and can be piped vs having to be trained in.  

Of course not, we can't. That's what I'm saying. Alternatives are not yet ready for primetime. 

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Gromdor

They are and have been in use for quite some time.  Your talking to a guy that built three gas powered plants and decommissioned a coal plant in the last decade to go with the wind turbines and solar panels being put up in my state.

 

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Hyperionxvii
8 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

They are and have been in use for quite some time.  Your talking to a guy that built three gas powered plants and decommissioned a coal plant in the last decade to go with the wind turbines and solar panels being put up in my state.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Let me use an analogy. I have a basketball team and I have one guy who scores 80 points a game. Let's call him primetime. The rest of my team scores 20 points a game.

There are a LOT of people who seem to think that we can just eliminate fossil fuels and that alternatives can take their place. That is absurd, despite the narrative being pushed.

I'm not saying that alternatives have no use.

Hopefully, you get what I'm saying now.

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Gromdor
Just now, Hyperionxvii said:

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Let me use an analogy. I have a basketball team and I have one guy who scores 80 points a game. Let's call him primetime. The rest of my team scores 20 points a game.

There are a LOT of people who seem to think that we can just eliminate fossil fuels and that alternatives can take their place. That is absurd, despite the narrative being pushed.

I'm not saying that alternatives have no use.

Hopefully, you get what I'm saying now.

Fossil fuels aren't scoring as well as you think.  The costs for coal is becoming prohibitive on it's own.  I'll use Iowa for example.  They stopped barging coal to one of the plants here because it was too expensive- that left just sending it by train.  Then we had floods a few years back and the railroads on both the Missouri and Mississippi were washed out and the coal couldn't be sent in.  Then the Missouri side was somewhat repaired and the power plant was able to order coal from an alternate source.  Unfortunately that coal had a way higher sulfur content than what was expected.  It was too caustic when burned and would damage the plant and not meet emissions standards so they couldn't use it.  People started to panic as the reserves got low- but hey!  We had wind power to pick up the slack.  A few weeks later the water recedes enough to fix the track.  But the power company learned their lesson and pushed up the scheduled decommission date for the coal plants.  Granted it's still still scheduled out another ten years for some of them, but many have already been taken down and replaced by newer better plants/ turbines.  When Trump and the coal industry said they were going to revitalize the industry back in 2016, those in the know just shook our heads.  That age passed with the last century.

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ExpandMyMind
9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

What city was that?

Colorado City. The mayor said it in a Facebook post then was either forced out or quit. 

https://twitter.com/breaking_et/status/1361839021878607875

The ex governor also reached donkey status:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/02/rick-perry-texas-power-outage

 

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razman

I can understand that people are really struggling down there , but you would think they would be prepared in case this happened. Its not unheard of. Heck up in the northern states people are fortunate when it gets above zero at any time of the day , sometimes for weeks at a time or longer. And there is windmills up there too. I never really thought about them freezing , i always figured they were designed for it. Did they not send Fema or the national guard down there ? Can't have people freezing.

Edited by razman

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Raptor Witness

The Big Problem?

Texas already succeeded in terms of their electric grid. It’s that simple, and now they’re back in the Stone Age. 

No potable water is the Stone Age, @Myles, so don’t argue with me otherwise, unless you have an artesian well at your house, also.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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President-Elect Acidhead

Power being restored 

 

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and then
1 hour ago, razman said:

I can understand that people are really struggling down there , but you would think they would be prepared in case this happened. Its not unheard of. Heck up in the northern states people are fortunate when it gets above zero at any time of the day , sometimes for weeks at a time or longer. And there is windmills up there too. I never really thought about them freezing , i always figured they were designed for it. Did they not send Fema or the national guard down there ? Can't have people freezing.

Most city/state governments have tight budgets so buying and maintaining as well as storing such equipment isn't a priority.

Think about this from their perspective.  It would be like the northern states preparing for hurricanes they'd likely never see.

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Tatetopa
54 minutes ago, and then said:

Most city/state governments have tight budgets so buying and maintaining as well as storing such equipment isn't a priority.

Think about this from their perspective.  It would be like the northern states preparing for hurricanes they'd likely never see.

True enough.  More like every 15-20 years than never, but the  point is good.  That explains lack of snow plows for sure.  In this case I think it was private utility companies that did not winterize facilities.  Same sort of logic applies though.  It is expensive and used infrequently.  I suppose one could ask the consumers if they would be willing to pay a monthly surcharge to prepare for  future emergencies.  A lot of people would choose in favor of cheaper power I reckon.

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toast
4 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

There are a LOT of people who seem to think that we can just eliminate fossil fuels and that alternatives can take their place. That is absurd, despite the narrative being pushed.

Thats a missleading statement because if there is enough energy produced by renewable energie sources to meet the need, then its possible.

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Jon the frog
13 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It is an infrastructure issue, or multiple issues.  A lot of things were supposed to be done that did not get done to prepare for this kind of weather.  It is not like there has never been a cold spell anywhere in Texas before.

Sad stuff happening, really bad situation out there in Texas. But damn, most of the time, people are digging their own graves.

The tendance of never be prepared for the worst... no backup system at home. No worry, everything will be solved by the government and if not, we will blame them.

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