Wind Turbines Freeze in Texas

[acidhead]

Facts 

 

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

At this time in our technological progress, it is not possible. It probably would become possible with fusion, but probably never with only wind and solar in any of our lifetimes. 

There are people now that live off the grid with solar only..  Granted they have to adjust their lifestyle to a reduced power usage and only the diehards don't have a backup generator or a grid connection.

[toast]

2 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

At this time in our technological progress, it is not possible. It probably would become possible with fusion, but probably never with only wind and solar in any of our lifetimes. 

You are wrong because we have the needed technology, wind/solar/hydro/biogas, already to fulfill the needs and there is more energy to harvest than we need. So its not a question of technology but a question of the number/quantity of power plants in operation.

[Raptor Witness]

9 hours ago, President-Elect Acidhead said:

Facts ...  

A “special visit” of the polar vortex was announced here on January 8, 2021.

The fact is, they had five weeks to prep. their coal fire and gas generation plants.

Human Intelligence is the biggest problem.

Texas with an isolated grid, was the obvious soft underbelly.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Raptor Witness

[Tiggs]

The spot price of wholesale electricity on the Texas power grid spiked more than 10,000% on Monday amid a deep freeze across the state and rolling outages among power producers, according to data on the grid operator’s website.

Real-time wholesale market prices on the power grid operated by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) were more than $9,000 per megawatt hour late Monday morning, compared with pre-storm prices of less than $50 per megawatt hour, according to ERCOT data.

Source: Reuters

From what I'm reading -- most Texans don't pay wholesale prices for electricity (Source: Star-Telegram). But those who do (and still have electricity) are going to have some seriously steep bills.
 

[rashore]

19 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

The spot price of wholesale electricity on the Texas power grid spiked more than 10,000% on Monday amid a deep freeze across the state and rolling outages among power producers, according to data on the grid operator’s website.

Real-time wholesale market prices on the power grid operated by the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) were more than $9,000 per megawatt hour late Monday morning, compared with pre-storm prices of less than $50 per megawatt hour, according to ERCOT data.

Source: Reuters

From what I'm reading -- most Texans don't pay wholesale prices for electricity (Source: Star-Telegram). But those who do (and still have electricity) are going to have some seriously steep bills.
 

Wow... with pricing like that, some of the wholesale utilizing folks might opt to try to keep not using power, even if it's available to them. 

[Myles]

I imagine there will be quite the sales boom of several items:

Generators

Heaters of all kinds - Electric, kerosene, propane

Solar panels

 

[Gromdor]

3 hours ago, rashore said:

Wow... with pricing like that, some of the wholesale utilizing folks might opt to try to keep not using power, even if it's available to them. 

Or invest in their own power systems.  There are quite a few farm co-ops here in Iowa with their own wind turbine(s) for example.

Edit to add: Some places allow private citizens that own solar or wind to sell back to the grid.  I don't know if Texas is such a place but if so, someone with an operational wind turbine or solar system could make some change.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Gromdor

[Gromdor]

Saw this meme and decided to share because it shows what I was talking about with angled solar panels to keep off snow:

 

[Tatetopa]

There is a financial guy, Nicholas Taleb, who wrote a book on statistically unlikely events which he called Black Swan events.  The housing bubble, 100 year floods, and probably the Texas situation are among them. People don't prepare for them because they think them unlikely. Preparation is costly.  How much will repair costs, loss of life and property, loss of economic opportunity cost in comparison?

There might be an opportunity here.  Voters might be mad enough to do something.  Companies might want to take some measures.  Individuals might want to improve their housing if they can afford it when they repair.   People that can't afford the investment are still going to be stuck and the higher power bills for power provider winterization. 

Please note, I am not blaming the government for everything, just the  corruption of politicians sleeping with lobbyists and mega-corporations and favoring donors rather than constituents. 

Individuals will have to play their part to help themselves.  I think Taleb calls that anti-fragile.

[Gromdor]

Speaking of Antarctica- Here is a link to some renewable energy projects they are doing down there to power up the stations: Running on Renewable Energies - Princess Elisabeth Antarctica Research Station (antarcticstation.org)

[Tatetopa]

Apparently windmills work in Antarctica too.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

There is a financial guy, Nicholas Taleb, who wrote a book on statistically unlikely events which he called Black Swan events.  The housing bubble, 100 year floods, and probably the Texas situation are among them. People don't prepare for them because they think them unlikely. Preparation is costly.  How much will repair costs, loss of life and property, loss of economic opportunity cost in comparison?

There might be an opportunity here.  Voters might be mad enough to do something.  Companies might want to take some measures.  Individuals might want to improve their housing if they can afford it when they repair.   People that can't afford the investment are still going to be stuck and the higher power bills for power provider winterization. 

Please note, I am not blaming the government for everything, just the  corruption of politicians sleeping with lobbyists and mega-corporations and favoring donors rather than constituents. 

Individuals will have to play their part to help themselves.  I think Taleb calls that anti-fragile.

There was a guy in the same field of construction here in Iowa that had his home flooded with the "100 yr flood" his insurance paid out and he rebuilt.  He then canceled his flood insurance because it was a "100yr flood" and the following year his house got flooded again..

Regarding Texas- apparently there was legislation passed to winterize the electrical system in Texas but Abbott never did it.

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Apparently windmills work in Antarctica too.

It's reported to be the windiest place on earth.  They do have issues with it being too windy and damaging the turbines.  

[Gromdor]

One of the regrets I have about my leaving the Airforce was that my career field (AFSC/MOS) had two slots to do a tour in Antarctica.  I wanted to do it because it probably would have been my only shot to actually go down there and experience it.   

[DarkHunter]

36 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Saw this meme and decided to share because it shows what I was talking about with angled solar panels to keep off snow:

 

You do understand solar panels arent angled to keep snow off of them right.  They are angled so that the sun hits them at a perpendicular angle as the further off from a perpendicular angle the proportionally less energy the solar panel produces.  The further north or south one gets from the equator the more extreme the angle has to become to get the sunlight to hit perpendicular. 

Even then solar panels located further from the equator will in general produce less energy then solar panels at the equator as the sunlight generally has to pass through more of the atmosphere on average which decreases the amount if energy that reaches the surface.

[Gromdor]

Just now, DarkHunter said:

You do understand solar panels arent angled to keep snow off of them right.  They are angled so that the sun hits them at a perpendicular angle as the further off from a perpendicular angle the proportionally less energy the solar panel produces.  The further north or south one gets from the equator the more extreme the angle has to become to get the sunlight to hit perpendicular. 

Even then solar panels located further from the equator will in general produce less energy then solar panels at the equator as the sunlight generally has to pass through more of the atmosphere on average which decreases the amount if energy that reaches the surface.

Yup, I know that.  However an earlier poster that solar panels don't work because snow gets on them.  It's a happy coincidence that the more you head towards the poles (and thus colder temps) the more it has to be angled and the less snow accumulates on them.  There are even solar panels that track the sun through the day for optimum efficiency. 

[Raptor Witness]

Texas Governor Abbott saying two days ago that the Green New Deal would be “deadly” for Americans.

To which I would reply, I think you appoint the ERCOT board, sir, and one of them, isn’t even an American, but I’m not paid like Hannity to parrot lies like this.

5 ERCOT board members don’t live in Texas, one from Canada

 KXAN - Feb 18, 2021

________________

What’s truly “deadly” are all the lies that these elected red faced officials keep telling, and getting away with.

I have a feeling that it’s time for Texas to switch to blue power.

Their “Red Kingdom” isn’t so hot anymore.

[+joc]

Do  you live in Texas?

Then shut up!

[Tatetopa]

19 minutes ago, joc said:

Do  you live in Texas?

Then shut up!

The only reason I left was that at 6'5" I was an inch too short to meet the height requirement.  Boots and hat don't count.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

21 minutes ago, joc said:

Do  you live in Texas?

Then shut up!

No, but neither does most of the board of ERCOT.

[rashore]

21 minutes ago, joc said:

Do  you live in Texas?

Then shut up!

Oh boo. This is an international forum. 

[acidhead]

9 years! This Clown just upped AOC 12 years! 

It's a Green New Deal or BUST! 

Fear sells! Stay scared! Hide under your bed! 

CLOWN SHOW!!!!! 

 

 

[+joc]

52 minutes ago, rashore said:

Oh boo. This is an international forum. 

 You are correct my dear...anyone can post their  opinions  from anywhere in the world! 

Here is one such opinion...

8 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

A “special visit” of the polar vortex was announced here on January 8, 2021.

The fact is, they had five weeks to prep. their coal fire and gas generation plants.

Human Intelligence is the biggest problem.

Texas with an isolated grid, was the obvious soft underbelly.

And here is mine... 

The fact is...Texas has over 30  million people.   We have state of the art everything.  Almost half the population of Texas lives in either Dallas or Houston areas.  The rest are scattered out across the state in small cities and smaller towns.

The fact is...we came extremely close to a complete total grid shutdown.  Had it not been for the people who actually  run the grid and made the decision to do rolling power outages, all of us in Texas might be without power right now and for weeks and months to come.  

So, when you talk about not being prepared...you obviously have no clue what you are even talking about.  You don't like our Governor...not because he isn't a good governor, but expressly because he is a Republican.  

1 hour ago, Raptor Witness said:

What’s truly “deadly” are all the lies that these elected red faced officials keep telling, and getting away with.

I have a feeling that it’s time for Texas to switch to blue power.

So feel free to spout your idiocy from where ever  you are from.  But if you aren't in Texas...mmm hmmm....

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

State of rhe art everything..... and yet your still boiling water to drink. Your pipes by your government’s own admission are 70 years old.  

[DarkHunter]

6 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Yup, I know that.  However an earlier poster that solar panels don't work because snow gets on them.  It's a happy coincidence that the more you head towards the poles (and thus colder temps) the more it has to be angled and the less snow accumulates on them.  There are even solar panels that track the sun through the day for optimum efficiency. 

Snow accumulation is not a significant factor in solar panels outside of extreme specific conditions. 

If a solar panel is getting enough sunlight to produce viable enough energy they generally are 36 degrees F hotter then ambient air temperature.  The bigger problem is snow accumulation comes with clouds which make the solar panels not produce significant amount of energy to begin with regardless of snow is on them or not.  Even then the further one moves north or south from the equator the more atmosphere the sunlight has to penetrate to reach the surface which causes the potential amount of collectable energy to drop significantly.

That is all assuming everything is equal cause in reality the highest solar photovoltaic potential is in deserts north and south of the equator as regions around the equator generally have high humidity levels which reduce solar potential.  But potential doesnt equate to actual generation as deserts tend to be hot enough to cause solar panels to run into issues with heat resistance which starts to limit energy production.