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Crazy Horse

Dharmic Life compared to Atheistic Belief

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Theist Coffee Drinker - "You have arsenic in your drink."

Atheistic Coffee Drinker - "Stop demeaning me, and stop preaching."

Crazy Horse - "Not drinking coffee is still drinking coffee."

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Rlyeh
5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

If one believes in chance, then ultimately, one in not in control of ones life and destiny.

All dharma traditions teach the Law of Cause and Effect.

This one may know for oneself..

This is the truth (known and experienced) and this is very, very empowering.

Is there a chance someone somewhere will be hit by lightning?

I wouldn't call denialism empowering.

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rashore
6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And which point was that?

Jay asked if I was going to beef about how folks drank their coffee, personally, one may drink their coffee anyway one wants to, but if your coffee is laced with poison, one should know.

That was my point.

And you add in to your slagging of atheism that it’s poison. You are equating atheism to being poisoned. 

You seriously need to stop talking about atheism  if you can’t stop with the hating on atheism. Pity your form of faith seems to include such a dislike for those not like you.

I strongly suggest you stop talking about other beliefs in such a fashion, and just stick to discussing and not preaching your own faith.

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Liquid Gardens
6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

If one believes in chance, then ultimately, one in not in control of ones life and destiny.

That doesn't follow either, you can believe in 'chance' and have some control over your life.  I don't find Dharmic illogic like this statement to be empowering, exactly the opposite, it's not like there's any shortage of belief systems that encourage you to selectively set aside reason.  You are not in control of your destiny in many ways but if you need to convince yourself of the opposite to be content that's fine, obviously different people have different sensitivities and weaknesses.

6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All dharma traditions teach the Law of Cause and Effect.

Most atheists don't need to be taught that, they already understand cause and effect.  Perhaps dharma traditions are just needed to catch some people up to where atheists already start from, like needing to take certain prerequisites in school before you're ready to move on to more advanced classes.

 

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Xeno-Fish
19 hours ago, XenoFish said:

From the last link.

1. Life involves suffering, duhkha.

The “illness” that the Buddha diagnosed as the human condition is duhkha, a term often rendered in English as “suffering” or “unsatisfactoriness.” The Buddha spoke of three types of duhkha. First, there is the ordinary suffering of mental and physical pain. Second, there is the suffering produced by change, the simple fact that all things—including happy feelings and blissful states—are impermanent, as is life itself. Third, there is suffering produced by the failure to recognize that no “I” stands alone, but everything and everyone, including what we call our “self,” is conditioned and interdependent.

2. Suffering is caused by desire and grasping.

The Buddha saw that the impulse to crave, desire, or grasp something one doesn’t have is the principal cause of suffering. Because of the impermanence and continuous change of all that we call “reality,” the attempt to hold on to it is as doomed to frustration as the attempt to stake out a piece of a river.

3. There is a way out of suffering.

This is the good news of the Dharma. It is possible to put an end to ego-centered desire, to put an end to duhkha and thus attain freedom from the perpetual sense of “unsatisfactoriness.”

4. The way is the “Noble Eightfold Path.”

To develop this freedom one must practice habits of ethical conduct, thought, and meditation that enable one to move along the path. These eight habits include:

Right understanding: Truly and deeply knowing, for example, that unwholesome acts and thoughts have consequences, as do wholesome acts and thoughts.

Right intention: Recognizing that actions are shaped by habits of anger and self-centeredness, or by habits of compassion, understanding, and love.

Right speech: Recognizing the moral implications of speech; truthfulness.

Right action: Observing the five precepts at the foundation of all morality: not killing, not stealing, not engaging in sexual misconduct, not lying, and not clouding the mind with intoxicants.

Right livelihood: Earning a living in ways that are consonant with the basic precepts.

Right effort: Cultivating this way of living with the attention, the patience, and the perseverance that it takes to cultivate a field.

Right mindfulness: Developing “presence of mind” through the moment-to-moment awareness of meditation practice, including mindfulness of breathing, mindfulness of walking, and mindfulness of bodily sensations.

Right concentration: Developing the ability to bring the dispersed and distracted mind and heart to a center, a focus, and to see clearly through that focused mind and heart.

Put your tray tables in the upright position. I'm highjacking this thread.

Going by the above quote I think these principles can be applied by anyone regards of faith or lack of. 

What do the rest of you think? 

How would you apply it to your life?

Edited by XenoFish
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Crazy Horse
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Metaphor. It's a metaphor....

Yes, it is a metaphor.

Pointing to an obvious truth.

Basically, that having chance within ones life, is to some degree, going to disempower an individual, even if they don't consciously realise it.

The Universal Principle of Cause and Effect, and The Law of Karma (which can be known for oneself) tells us that everything happens for a reason. Knowing this basic truth, one may mindfully pay attention to - which cause had what effect etc, etc, leading one eventually, yet inevitable, to this idea of Universal Love. And the closer one gets to this realisation, the more empowered they become.

If you disagree with this reasoning, then by all means debate he issue.

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Crazy Horse
3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Yet they still gamble.

Some do, that's very true..

Although, the more love, the less fear, and the less fear, the greater the clarity, and the greater the clarity, the less of a gamble it shall actually become.

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Crazy Horse
46 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That doesn't follow either, you can believe in 'chance' and have some control over your life.  I don't find Dharmic illogic like this statement to be empowering, exactly the opposite, it's not like there's any shortage of belief systems that encourage you to selectively set aside reason.  You are not in control of your destiny in many ways but if you need to convince yourself of the opposite to be content that's fine, obviously different people have different sensitivities and weaknesses.

Most atheists don't need to be taught that, they already understand cause and effect.  Perhaps dharma traditions are just needed to catch some people up to where atheists already start from, like needing to take certain prerequisites in school before you're ready to move on to more advanced classes.

 

Yes, glad you came to my point.

Some control is not full control.

A true dharma practitioner is in full control of their thoughts, words and deeds, and therefore their whole life.

They know the value of kindness, of generosity, of compassion and understanding, they learn skilfulness, all brought together under the umbrella of Love.

Knowing these things, one strives with ever greater effort and mindfulness towards THAT Divine Centre which every human being is born with.

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Crazy Horse
50 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Put your tray tables in the upright position. I'm highjacking this thread.

Going by the above quote I think these principles can be applied by anyone regards of faith or lack of. 

What do the rest of you think? 

How would you apply it to your life?

You are right, these principles can be learnt, and used by anyone.

Yet this is only one part of Buddhism, and Buddhism is only one of the dharmic traditions

For example, in the Vedic tradition, the beautiful meditative practice of holding GOD within ones mind, and feeling GOD within ones heart, is literally the path to enlightenment.

How would you get on with that?

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, rashore said:

And you add in to your slagging of atheism that it’s poison. You are equating atheism to being poisoned. 

You seriously need to stop talking about atheism  if you can’t stop with the hating on atheism. Pity your form of faith seems to include such a dislike for those not like you.

I strongly suggest you stop talking about other beliefs in such a fashion, and just stick to discussing and not preaching your own faith.

No more slagging off this Atheistic Belief - promise.

But I will say this, that if any faith, belief, ideal or system, is harmful to the individual, then we should not only be allowed to discuss it, but we should be encouraged and even applauded for such efforts.

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Xeno-Fish
Just now, Crazy Horse said:

No more slagging off this Atheistic Belief - promise.

But I will say this, that if any faith, belief, ideal or system, is harmful to the individual, then we should not only be allowed to discuss it, but we should be encouraged and even applauded for such efforts.

Does this include yours or just the ones you don't agree with? 

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Crazy Horse
Just now, XenoFish said:

Does this include yours or just the ones you don't agree with? 

If you think this dharmic way is harmful, then please debate with me, I have said nothing else the whole thread through..

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rashore
3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No more slagging off this Atheistic Belief - promise.

But I will say this, that if any faith, belief, ideal or system, is harmful to the individual, then we should not only be allowed to discuss it, but we should be encouraged and even applauded for such efforts.

You promise not to slag.. then proceed to slag. Atheism is not harmful to the individual. I fully understand you really believe it is a poison that you need to keep going on about. But stop, seriously. I will not encourage or applaud your efforts to smear an entire group of people just because you don't like their beliefs. You are using your beliefs to be harmful to other beliefs. Just leave off it if you can't stop with the negativity. 

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Xeno-Fish
4 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

If you think this dharmic way is harmful, then please debate with me, I have said nothing else the whole thread through..

That's the problem. You haven't said anything in regards to the dharmic path. It took myself and rashore to do it. All you've done is basically bash atheism. This thread was flame bait from the start. 

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Crazy Horse
20 minutes ago, rashore said:

You promise not to slag.. then proceed to slag. Atheism is not harmful to the individual. I fully understand you really believe it is a poison that you need to keep going on about. But stop, seriously. I will not encourage or applaud your efforts to smear an entire group of people just because you don't like their beliefs. You are using your beliefs to be harmful to other beliefs. Just leave off it if you can't stop with the negativity. 

I didn't even use the word poison in that post - so how is that going-on about it?

By the way, seeing as you are an impartial mod, please explain the actual difference between, discussing, and preaching?

 

 

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Crazy Horse
29 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's the problem. You haven't said anything in regards to the dharmic path. It took myself and rashore to do it. All you've done is basically bash atheism. This thread was flame bait from the start. 

Re-read the OP for a start.

 

 

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Xeno-Fish
10 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Re-read the OP for a start.

 

 

Why? I read it. Doesn't actually explain anything. Don't worry, you'll get your chance to debate it all very soon.

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Nuclear Wessel
34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why? I read it. Doesn't actually explain anything. Don't worry, you'll get your chance to debate it all very soon.

tenor.gif

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spartan max2
56 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I didn't even use the word poison in that post - so how is that going-on about it?

By the way, seeing as you are an impartial mod, please explain the actual difference between, discussing, and preaching?

 

 

Discussion: asking people questions about what they believe and how they live from a place of curiosity and learning. Without judgement.

Preaching: TELLING people what they believe. Not asking or talking about it just making an assumption and telling them that's how it is.

For example, your OP. 

Quote

The atheistic belief is one of chaos (chance) and accident, and ultimately an unfulfilling existence bound within the fleeting, Temporal Material world, Not to mention those unexplained mysteries of life, (Spirit), which are often ignored or simply ridiculed.

 

To change shoes for a moment:

If I said belief in god is childish and comes from a place of ignorance would you see me as trying to have a discussion or as trying to  preach to you?

 

 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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jmccr8
4 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Have you ever told someone drink instant?

Perish the thought

jmccr8

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Crazy Horse
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Discussion: asking people questions about what they believe and how they live from a place of curiosity and learning. Without judgement.

Preaching: TELLING people what they believe. Not asking or talking about it just making an assumption and telling them that's how it is.

For example, your OP. 

 

To change shoes for a moment:

If I said belief in god is childish and comes from a place of ignorance would you see me as trying to have a discussion or as trying to  preach to you?

 

 

 

The difference being that the OP was only concerned with Atheistic Belief, in and of itself.

Nothing to do with individuals who may have a whole myriad of different ideas and beliefs from all over the place..

It was a reasoning-out of those ideas to their natural conclusions.

And yes, with the shoe on the other foot, I would see that as the potential to begin a discussion eg, asking, why do you see a belief in GOD as childish, and coming from a place of ignorance?

In fact, why don't we start a discussion know, about this idea?

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Golden Duck
6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Some do, that's very true..

Although, the more love, the less fear, and the less fear, the greater the clarity, and the greater the clarity, the less of a gamble it shall actually become.

Playing the lottery is still the lottery. There is no action you can take while living Dharma that can help you win games of chance.

But, since you brought up love. Having your stars done is also a common practice by people who live Dharma.  The implication is that you can't change what is already wrtten.

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silentsinger
14 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Theist Coffee Drinker - "You have arsenic in your drink."

Atheistic Coffee Drinker - "Stop demeaning me, and stop preaching."

How do you know my coffee has arsenic in it? I've never had my coffee any different, and i am feeling just fine.

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rashore

This thread was started poorly, and has progressed badly. 

Thread closed for review. 

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