Do you atheists have a message for mankind?

[TashaMarie]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The other possible  ending to that story (and i have seen both outcomes many times in my life ) is that  she turned even closer to her faith, and it comforted, empowered, and supported her, helping her overcome grief pain and loss.  ie had she persevered with her positive connection to /faith in, god, her life may have had a happier outcome. 

Well the way she felt, is she had done everything she had been asked and more and he had taken her loved ones, no, not that he had taken them but how he had taken then.  I personally do not understand how you can suffer as much as some people do and still have a positive view of God let alone wish to know him.

[Crazy Horse]

8 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

Maybe this will help you understand:

Nope...

[Crazy Horse]

8 hours ago, joc said:

 

Thanks Joc, now Im going to have that song in me head all day......

[Crazy Horse]

8 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

That doesn't make it into a belief in nothing.  There are versions of spirituality/belief systems out there that don't believe in a god.

Well that depends upon how one defines god/God/GOD.

SOURCE, or THE ABSOLUTE, or THE ALL, TRUTH, LOVE etc etc.

 

[Mr Walker]

11 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

Well the way she felt, is she had done everything she had been asked and more and he had taken her loved ones, no, not that he had taken them but how he had taken then.  I personally do not understand how you can suffer as much as some people do and still have a positive view of God let alone wish to know him.

No I guess you don't, but humans construct every cognitive/emotional  response.

    I had  friends who were JWs.  the y lost one son to a brutal murder and another to suicide. Their daughter left home and got pregnant aged 14 

In the end   the y rejected god becoming bitter and hurt 

Another   couples  (my wife and my own  closest friends)   first born was severely brain damaged and has spent  50 years in fulltime care unable to walk or speak   The y adopted a daughter who rejected them in her teens  and became a drug(heroin and meth)  addict with children from  several difernt fathers  she would make drug  pipes and send them to school with her son to sell  

They stuck with god after discovering Pentecostal  Christianity when their son was diagnosed,   and put their trust in him.

Now well into their 70s they remain strong, happy, content and well adjusted, despite what life threw at them.

  The y  were  very successful in life and business,  being both intelligent and hard working,    but always talked with god before making any decisions, even as simple as buying a car .  

Edited February 26, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Crazy Horse]

33 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

When my sister first moved into her house many years ago she had a neighbour, who she became close to.  The neighbour had some mental health issues and wasn't always the nicest person.  I found out about a year after my sister moved in that her neighbour had was been a devout Catholic very religious, her family and God were the most important people in her life.  Unfortunately due to the actions of others she lost her husband and grandson in a house fire as a direct result she suffered a mental breakdown and turned from God she became very bitter and resentful.  Yes only one story/account but she did not live a happy fulfilling life God living a life revering God and putting him above all else.

Like I said, if one follows the advice, directions of wise folk, who know GOD.

[Crazy Horse]

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You are no horseman. Not even close.

In comparison to the above, then I would have to agree.

[Crazy Horse]

22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It may have nothing to do with it, but human's in pain are often more angry, short tempered and intolerant, than those  who are not  It is hard to be good natured when you are suffering and, to me at least, it is a reasonable excuse for poor behaviour. 

Sometimes my wife is short tempered, and when  I ask it is because she is in a lot of pain.

This is very different to her being cranky with me because  I have annoyed her       

Yes, I can agree with this.

Its a useful insight, and should elicit more compassion from those of us who are not suffering.

Yet I feel, for us mere unenlightened mortals, there is only so much one can take, at a time.

Yet in homeopathic medicine, there is sometimes the need to administer tiny amounts of poison to help the patient over-come their sickness.

And so I disagree with your above statement that this becomes a "reasonable excuse for bad behaviour".

If one has been shown the way out of suffering, and yet holds fast in their "idiot" behaviours, and then pouring scorn upon those who are trying to help, (on a public forum). Then is is no longer a reasonable excuse, but a weak and pathetic defence of ones whole life.

 

[Crazy Horse]

31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Crazy is the new normal....

[Mr Walker]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, I can agree with this.

Its a useful insight, and should elicit more compassion from those of us who are not suffering.

Yet I feel, for us mere unenlightened mortals, there is only so much one can take, at a time.

Yet in homeopathic medicine, there is sometimes the need to administer tiny amounts of poison to help the patient over-come their sickness.

And so I disagree with your above statement that this becomes a "reasonable excuse for bad behaviour".

If one has been shown the way out of suffering, and yet holds fast in their "idiot" behaviours, and then pouring scorn upon those who are trying to help, (on a public forum). Then is is no longer a reasonable excuse, but a weak and pathetic defence of ones whole life.

 

ah but its a reasonable excuse for those unskilled,  or unpractised,  in managing pain, or their responses.

Plus i dont judge people who, for whatever reason, cant see or understand the truths I know.

I just count my blessings, and continue to offer advice, even when it is rejected  disrespectfully.     

  

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

ah but its a reasonable excuse for those unskilled,  or unpractised,  in managing pain, or their responses.

Plus i dont judge people who, for whatever reason, cant see or understand the truths I know.

I just count my blessings, and continue to offer advice, even when it is rejected  disrespectfully.     

  

Yes you do, and THAT is very admirable.

But for my part, there isn't so much judgement, more a discernment.

For an example; if an individual looks like a drug addict, talks like a drug addict, and acts like a drug addict, it might be wise to discern as much and act accordingly. That is discernment. If one discerns and then thinks, "lowlife scum", then that is judgement.

I know that each and every person is divine, and I know that this divineness is often obscured by false beliefs, perceptions and actions, which will only lead one to unhappiness and suffering. 

And pointing out this one simple fact, is surprisingly difficult.

[TashaMarie]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Like I said, if one follows the advice, directions of wise folk, who know GOD.

So you are saying that by following the Bible and what she was told in church was incorrect?  That the father, vicar or whoever she was following the advice from was incorrect?  That this person/s who worked for God or at least on his behalf was giving her bad advice?

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

In comparison to the above, then I would have to agree.

They had it first.

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Crazy is the new normal....

Cool story bro.

[+joc]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The best we can do is love each other and turn the other cheek, as it were. Thats not to say be a victim. Defend yourself, but forgive. 

See...as much as I like you and I do...this is what drives me nuts about Christians...always taking the Bible and twisting the teachings of Christ into whatever they think it should say.  

Jesus never said that.  He said turn the other cheek.  Never, ever did he say...defend yourself, but forgive.  Never.

So...please...if you are going to state the teachings of Christ...just do it...without giving it that 'christian' twist.  That is the teaching of Peter...the fisherman...not Jesus The Christ.

Thank  you!

[+Liquid Gardens]

20 minutes ago, joc said:

Jesus never said that.  He said turn the other cheek.  Never, ever did he say...defend yourself, but forgive.  Never.

He kinda implies it:

“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into (Luke 12:39). ”

 

Luke 11:

"Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and a house divided against a house will fall. 18If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? After all, you say that I drive out demons by Beelzebul. 19And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

21When a strong man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are secure. 22But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted, and then he divides up his plunder.

23He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters."

 

The instruction to 'forgive everyone who sins against us' is 13 lines before the one immediately above.

 

[+joc]

5 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

He kinda implies it:

“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into (Luke 12:39). ”

 

Luke 11:

"Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and a house divided against a house will fall. 18If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? After all, you say that I drive out demons by Beelzebul. 19And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

21When a strong man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are secure. 22But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted, and then he divides up his plunder.

23He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters."

 

The instruction to 'forgive everyone who sins against us' is 13 lines before the one immediately above.

 

Noted...but that's exactly what I'm talking about...'Well, see, he said this here...but he said that there ...so we can take what he said there and apply new meaning to what he said here.'

In the specific scriptures... turn the other cheek...the meaning was clear.  Furthermore, when confronted by the soldiers who came for him to take him to be crucified...Peter pulled out his sword and chopped off a soldiers ear.  Jesus rebuked Peter for doing so.

In the above scriptures you mentioned...he was speaking in parables.  I think the meaning is therefore not literal but more figurative...in Luke he was instructing them to Watch and be ready for his return.  Because the thief comes when you least expect...and he was talking about his return in the same way...when you least expect.

 

 

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You guys crack me up.....

You do nothing but belittle, mock, and generally insult those folk of faith, and yet at the slightest hint of that same medicine, you all jump-up onto your high horse, forgetting where you came from..

 

Hi Crazy Horse

I haven't forgotten where I came from and you verbally abuse people with a self sanctified attitude so if you can't take it don't dish it out boy.

jmccr8

[XenoFish]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You guys crack me up.....

You do nothing but belittle, mock, and generally insult those folk of faith, and yet at the slightest hint of that same medicine, you all jump-up onto your high horse, forgetting where you came from..

 

I'd say that most of us have no issue with those who have a healthy and balanced religious/spiritual belief. However those like yourself tend to be troublesome. A prime example of toxic spirituality. 

[GoldenWolf]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Nope...

Go back to school.

[+Liquid Gardens]

16 minutes ago, joc said:

Noted...but that's exactly what I'm talking about...'Well, see, he said this here...but he said that there ...so we can take what he said there and apply new meaning to what he said here.'

I'm not sure which part you are referring to.  I assume you are not just pointing out that he didn't literally say 'defend yourself, but forgive' in that exact formulation (in the Bible).  'Forgive' really doesn't need to be attached to that, that instruction is all over the place.  

25 minutes ago, joc said:

turn the other cheek...the meaning was clear. 

I don't think so, that's had multiple interpretations.  Some think it's a prohibition only against taking revenge, not defending yourself.  I think this is somewhat supported by the example he chose, 'cheek-hitting', which was I think at the time a behavior to assert your dominance over those you saw as lesser than you and is more of an insult than a physical assault.

29 minutes ago, joc said:

In the above scriptures you mentioned...he was speaking in parables.  I think the meaning is therefore not literal but more figurative...in Luke he was instructing them to Watch and be ready for his return.  Because the thief comes when you least expect...and he was talking about his return in the same way...when you least expect.

I agree, and I did only say 'implied'.  But turning the other cheek is parable-esque also, so I'm not sure why in that case we'd think what he said was clear.  As far as the thief being only a parable about watching for his return, the inclusion of 'not allowed his house to be broken into' seems an odd thing to include in that message.

[+joc]

11 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'm not sure which part you are referring to.  I assume you are not just pointing out that he didn't literally say 'defend yourself, but forgive' in that exact formulation (in the Bible).  'Forgive' really doesn't need to be attached to that, that instruction is all over the place.  

I don't think so, that's had multiple interpretations.  Some think it's a prohibition only against taking revenge, not defending yourself.  I think this is somewhat supported by the example he chose, 'cheek-hitting', which was I think at the time a behavior to assert your dominance over those you saw as lesser than you and is more of an insult than a physical assault.

I agree, and I did only say 'implied'.  But turning the other cheek is parable-esque also, so I'm not sure why in that case we'd think what he said was clear.  As far as the thief being only a parable about watching for his return, the inclusion of 'not allowed his house to be broken into' seems an odd thing to include in that message.

Actually, there isn't anything clear about any of it.  Most of it only makes sense within the context of the Bible itself.  But, and this is what I was referring to...He did not  try to defend himself, when his accusers came and he did rebuke Peter for doing so, and he did say Take up your cross daily, and follow me...which does imply in itself that we are to always turn the other cheek...but then again as you say turning the other cheek meant something entirely different two thousand years ago...so...

And he did take up a very hostile and defensive action by chasing the money traders out of the temple...so...

Message to Mankind #3

Don't get caught up in religiosity trying  to determine...what Jesus would do..you have no idea.  Or trying to determine what is God's will for me...

Address today for what it is...and leave the murky waters of The Religious in the pool you found them.  Treat other people the way you want to be treated.  Stop living in the past of ancient scriptures...stop anticipating the future predictions of ancient scriptures...live in the moment at hand...and let  your mind's eye and your gut...guide you.

Edited February 26, 2021 by joc

[Guyver]

People can make the Bible mean whatever they want via their interpretation.  I agree with @joc on this point.  They take the parts that confirm what they want to believe and ignore the rest.  They can reach back to the OT if need be, and build a doctrine that makes sense to them and adopt it.  I have done this before, on several occasions.  I have taken what is considered standard doctrine, supported by scriptures, and then searched to see if I can find its opposite, and guess what?  I have yet to not be able to find an opposite statement in the Bible.  If you take awareness after death as an example, you will find scriptures that support both sides of that point.  If you take justification by faith, you can find justification by works - its opposite.  This pattern goes on and on.  So, I agree with Joc on this and do have a problem with it because I don’t see how making up what I want to believe based on the Bible is any different from making up my own beliefs based on my own observations of the world as it really is, and not how I wish it would be.  It’s almost like it’s OK to make up ones own beliefs as long as the Bible is the basis.  But, if it’s something other than the Bible, like science, experience, and observation, then that is not OK.

[Tatetopa]

7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, the belief in GOD is just the starting point.

The experience of GOD, and the ATONEMENT with GOD, is, perhaps, the endpoint.

Thanks for that.

[+DieChecker]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

In all fairness... The crazy people LISTEN to the voices. We all hear that "voice", we usually just decide to do what we want.