Do you atheists have a message for mankind?

[Will Due]

11 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I'd imagine it would depend on the context. That's a rather vague question.

 

Well the context would be, if not a creator God, what do you believe caused the universe to exist?

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, Will Do said:

Well the context would be, if not a creator God, what do you believe caused the universe to exist?

https://www.space.com/16281-big-bang-god-intervention-science.html

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

https://www.space.com/16281-big-bang-god-intervention-science.html

 

The law of inertia says basically, if nothing is moving, something has to push on it to get it started.

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

4 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

The law of inertia says basically, if nothing is moving, something has to push on it to get it started.

 

 

Yeah but we're not talking about the law of inertia, Will--we're talking about what "caused" the universe to exist. These are two entirely different things.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel

[psyche101]

7 minutes ago, Will Do said:

 

Well the context would be, if not a creator God, what do you believe caused the universe to exist?

Again you are suggesting that gods the most obvious or likely answer? 

Not the case. Gods a product of hubris. You are deploying it with this repeated man made assertion. 

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Yeah but we're not talking about the law of inertia, Will.

 

It's okay. I won't get into a round and round about this. I was just curious what looker believed caused the universe to exist. Since he said he believed in cause and effect.

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Will Do said:

 

It's okay. I won't get into a round and round about this. I was just curious what looker believed caused the universe to exist. Since he said he believed in cause and effect.

 

 

I'm certain his answer won't be much different than mine.

[XenoFish]

If god created everything, what created god?

Even till this day, not one good answer has yet to be given.

[psyche101]

12 minutes ago, Will Do said:

The law of inertia says basically, if nothing is moving, something has to push on it to get it started.

Does not apply to a pre universe state.

And that's Newton's first law. 

[psyche101]

17 minutes ago, Will Do said:

It's okay. I won't get into a round and round about this. I was just curious what looker believed caused the universe to exist. Since he said he believed in cause and effect.

Cause is the difference of potential produced by fluctuations in a vacuum state. Not a man made entity.

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

I mentioned you and Illy and that Illy spoke with me in PMs, Yes I did speak with you on a couple of occasions in the forum a couple of years ago and gave you up as a lost cause because of your attitude and nothing has changed since then. Unless you are Illy we do not have a history and you should not act as though you have my respect and offered the familiarity of calling me by my first name. You are preaching in the wrong section of the forum and would suggest that you take your spiel there where you will be on topic. You , Walker and Will can do as you please in that forum and no problem go at it I will stay out of there and if you try to engage me in this sub forum you will be ignored. So are you Illy like Xeno suggested?

jmccr8

Its interesting that the people you have chosen to not respond to are all those with beliefs and values different to your own, which might challenge how you  see yourself and your life.

It is natural to ignore such people,  but I don't know if it  is healthy or productive 

Ps this is the spirituality vs scepticism thread, and thus where vigorous  debates and differences should be held, NOT in the other thread,   although even there, polite discussion and debate is inevitable 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If god created everything, what created god?

Even till this day, not one good answer has yet to be given.

IMO, god is an evolved (and evolving)  being like humans.

  One day humans may develop the abilities we see in god.  

However, in a theological/magical thinking world, God existed forever, and is perfect and unchanging. 

 In that form of thinking,  it is the prime cause, the elemental force behind the existence of all other things. 

In my basic understanding of the science,  "nonexistence"  is inherently unstable, and  inevitably  evolves /changes into existence, spontaneously and without intelligent cause or purpose,  Personally I have no trouble accepting that as a scientific possibility/hypothesis 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Its interesting that the people you have chosen to not respond to are all those with beliefs and values different to your own, which might challenge how you  see yourself and your life.

It is natural to ignore such people,  but I don't know if it  is healthy or productive 

Ps this is the spirituality vs scepticism thread, and thus where vigorous  debates and differences should be held, NOT in the other thread,   although even there, polite discussion and debate is inevitable 

Hi Walker

I will not engage any of you for different reasons, for you it is because I enjoy getting into it with you but it is a distraction for others to derail threads so have chosen to satisfy the greater need of the whole rather than your or my personal pleasure. Discussion with Will is pointless because he can neither discuss his UB with any conviction by actually knowing what it says and using it effectively as well as his mystical one liners. Crazy Horse is a different kind crazy and not worth derailing threads with pointless non-topic BS.

There are other members that I do not discuss with for a variety of reasons on other parts of the forum so you make a mute point I have my reasons why I do things that are not within your scope of judgment so will leave it at that. Nothing personal I still see you as a friend.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I will not engage any of you for different reasons, for you it is because I enjoy getting into it with you but it is a distraction for others to derail threads so have chosen to satisfy the greater need of the whole rather than your or my personal pleasure. Discussion with Will is pointless because he can neither discuss his UB with any conviction by actually knowing what it says and using it effectively as well as his mystical one liners. Crazy Horse is a different kind crazy and not worth derailing threads with pointless non-topic BS.

There are other members that I do not discuss with for a variety of reasons on other parts of the forum so you make a mute point I have my reasons why I do things that are not within your scope of judgment so will leave it at that. Nothing personal I still see you as a friend.

jmccr8

I need a drink.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I need a drink.

What's your poison?

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

What's your poison?

brandy with a hard cider chaser and a good cigar.

[Mr Walker]

16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I will not engage any of you for different reasons, for you it is because I enjoy getting into it with you but it is a distraction for others to derail threads so have chosen to satisfy the greater need of the whole rather than your or my personal pleasure. Discussion with Will is pointless because he can neither discuss his UB with any conviction by actually knowing what it says and using it effectively as well as his mystical one liners. Crazy Horse is a different kind crazy and not worth derailing threads with pointless non-topic BS.

There are other members that I do not discuss with for a variety of reasons on other parts of the forum so you make a mute point I have my reasons why I do things that are not within your scope of judgment so will leave it at that. Nothing personal I still see you as a friend.

jmccr8

Pleased  to hear that.

  I have a high personal regard for you, and your integrity .

However I am not so liable to concern for others, as long as I post within the  rules of the forum.

   To me, the whole point of these forums is to debate pov

  The greater the differences of opinion,  the greater the opportunity for debate.  .

I dont believe we should allow the disapproval or displeasure, or even  the discomfort, of others, to censor or silence us.  

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

brandy with a hard cider chaser and a good cigar.

Hi Hammer

I have the cigar but am about to have a shot of rum.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

I have the cigar but am about to have a shot of rum.

jmccr8

Sounds good. Anything but Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels is too much like drinking water, only it isn't water.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sounds good. Anything but Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels is too much like drinking water, only it isn't water.

I don't drink much but when I do I really enjoy Aberfeldy scotch.

Or an ice-cold Sapporo.

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I don't drink much but when I do I really enjoy Aberfeldy scotch.

Or an ice-cold Sapporo.

 

Hi Nuke

Years ago I used to drink Pinch scotch maybe I should pick some up next time

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sounds good. Anything but Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels is too much like drinking water, only it isn't water.

Hi Hammer

You are lucky you can still get rum dipped cigars and up here you can't even get menthol cigarettes

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

No need to answer.

 I realy don't want to derail the thread(although it has deviated into a discussion of alcohol preferences  )  But i often wonder  why do people need stimulants/depressants ?  What do the y provide for people, which their minds cannot provide for them?   What is it that makes people want /need to use them, to stop thinking /worrying etc 

I am not being judgemental here.

In moderation  all things which do no harm   are   reasonable.

  I used to smoke and drink.

I was addicted to the smoking, but the drinking was due to social pressures and expectations on a young male in Australia.

I really only enjoyed the tasting experience of some drinks, mostly wines, spirits and  liqueurs. 

I could drink until i went to sleep, with no effect on my mind or body,(eg 6 litres(12 pints)  of beer and a  pint of spirits was normal personal consumption  for an afternoon/evening spent   with others, but fortunately quite rare  ) except that  i had to concentrate  a little more on speaking.

  If i was still smoking, it would cost me  about $250 dollars a week, even if i had kept it down to a packet a day  That is basically the equivalent of our house mortgage 

quote  

In fact, at around $35 for a pack of 20, Australia’s cigarettes are the most expensive in the world. 

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/womans-grocery-v-cigarette-experiment-230005444.html#:~:text=Smoking cigarettes in Australia is an expensive habit.&text=In fact%2C at around %2435,most expensive in the world.

Add in   a modest alcohol consumption and i would be broke before I bought anything else

quote  

Last year, Deutsche Bank data backed up the latest research after finding Australia was one of the most expensive places in the world to buy alcohol, according to the May 2017 Expatistan Cost of Living Index.

It found the average cost of beer to vary between $8 and $9 in our two biggest cities, while a bottle of wine costs $20 on average in Sydney and standard cocktails ranging between $17-18 in both Sydney and Melbourne.

And a Bloomberg study released in April this year found Australia to be among the top three most three expensive places to buy alcohol, cigarettes and drugs.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/new-research-reveals-the-worlds-most-expensive-cities-to-buy-a-pint/news-story/8500a78a560f765c00ec063cbbe45c35

 

The most memorable drink i ever had was actually after I had stopped drinking.

A Scottish exchange teacher had brought a 30 year old Glenfiddich whiskey to his final staff meting  We all had a wee dram  (about a medicine measuring cup half full, or 5-10 mils ) The taste was sensational.

It had the taste of the peat, the heather, and the water, in it, all "distilled " down to a  concentrated smoky  liquid gold 

Today such a whiskey would cost 600 -1200 dollars a bottle, and even way back then, I think it cost him a couple of hundred dollars 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No need to answer.

 I realy don't want to derail the thread But i often wonder  why do people need stimulants/depressants ?  What do the y provide for people which their minds cannot provide for them?   What is it that makes peole want /need to use them to stop thinking /worrying etc 

I am not being judgemental here.

In moderation  all things which do no harm   are   reasonable  I used to smoke and drink.

I was addicted to the smoking but the drinking was due to social pressures and expectations I relly only enjoyed the tasting experience of some drinks mostly wines spirits and  liqueurs 

I could drink until i went to sleep with no effect on my mind or body except that  i had to concentrate  a little more on speaking.

  If i was still smoking, it would cost me  about $250 dollars a week even if i had kept it down to a packet a day  That is basically the equivalent of our house mortgage 

quote  

In fact, at around $35 for a pack of 20, Australia’s cigarettes are the most expensive in the world. 

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/womans-grocery-v-cigarette-experiment-230005444.html#:~:text=Smoking cigarettes in Australia is an expensive habit.&text=In fact%2C at around %2435,most expensive in the world.

Add in   a modest alcohol consumption and i would be broke before I bought anything else

quote  

Last year, Deutsche Bank data backed up the latest research after finding Australia was one of the most expensive places in the world to buy alcohol, according to the May 2017 Expatistan Cost of Living Index.

It found the average cost of beer to vary between $8 and $9 in our two biggest cities, while a bottle of wine costs $20 on average in Sydney and standard cocktails ranging between $17-18 in both Sydney and Melbourne.

And a Bloomberg study released in April this year found Australia to be among the top three most three expensive places to buy alcohol, cigarettes and drugs.

Hi Walker

I do not go to pubs or very seldom, I have been single for longer than a lot of people here have been alive so I work and pay all the bills, do all the chores, shopping cleaning, laundry ,cooking etal so if on Friday night I feel like kicking back I get a mickey sometimes a 26 and have my wind down time. Tonight is an exception and having a couple but do have to be up at 5:30 and on the road by 7 tomorrow morning.

Nobody escapes anything, I still think about the same things the way I do, from as many different perspectives that are available whether I am sober or not (unless there is a raven haired beauty that distracts me when drinking and thinking about serious stuff)because that is my nature. Even when I did go to bars it was an opportunity to observe others.

jmccr8

Edited March 2, 2021 by jmccr8
missed a not

[Mr Walker]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I do not go to pubs or very seldom, I have been single for longer than a lot of people here have been alive so I work and pay all the bills, do all the chores, shopping cleaning, laundry ,cooking etal so if on Friday night I feel like kicking back I get a mickey sometimes a 26 and have my wind down time. Tonight is an exception and having a couple but do have to be up at 5:30 and on the road by 7 tomorrow morning.

Nobody escapes anything, I still think about the same things the way I do, from as many different perspectives that are available whether I am sober or not (unless there is a raven haired beauty that distracts me when drinking and thinking about serious stuff)because that is my nature. Even when I did go to bars it was an opportunity to observe others.

jmccr8

Makes sense but doesn't really explain WHY.

  What would be different if you didn't  drink?

 ( I guess your bit bout "winding down' is the best explanation)