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oslove

Do you atheists have a message for mankind?

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keithisco
10 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

This is how strong the Atheistic Belief System is, eg, weak as a kitten, prickly as a hedgehog, and about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

I think you will find that atheism per se cannot be a "belief system". It is actually the antithesis of a belief system

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
13 minutes ago, keithisco said:

I think you will find that atheism per se cannot be a "belief system". It is actually the antithesis of a belief system

I'm amazed why it is so difficult for some people to understand that atheism is a position on the existence of god(s). Thats it.

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closed for business
5 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Refer to the mindfulness thread. :) Don't let it have power over you.

Let's move on and ignore it. I like that idea.

What kind of messages do you think mankind could benefit from, at least from an atheistic perspective?

Hi Nuke

I posted the don't worry be happy song, so for me it's just wake up everyday and do your best to make things work and be inclusive.

jmccr8

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Rlyeh
On 2/20/2021 at 3:10 AM, oslove said:

I await with bated breath to read what message atheists care to tell mankind, so that mankind starting with myself will profit from it.

By atheists I include all humans who choose to not at least entertain any interest in God.

.

My message to mankind? Beware of charlatans like the one who started this topic.

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Rlyeh
11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

There is no wisdom of atheistic thought.

I've thought the same when reading some of your replies.

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Crazy Horse
45 minutes ago, keithisco said:

I think you will find that atheism per se cannot be a "belief system". It is actually the antithesis of a belief system

Fair enough..

An anti-belief ideal?

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Crazy Horse
32 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I'm amazed why it is so difficult for some people to understand that atheism is a position on the existence of god(s). Thats it.

Yes, and that position is that they don't exist.

Which in turn means that we weren't created, that there is no Divine Order, no Universal Laws and Principles, only chance and happenstance etc, etc, etc.

 

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Rlyeh
11 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, and that position is that they don't exist.

Which in turn means that we weren't created, that there is no Divine Order, no Universal Laws and Principles, only chance and happenstance etc, etc, etc.

Typically not believing in the main character of a story implies the story isn't believed either..

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I'm amazed why it is so difficult for some people to understand that atheism is a position on the existence of god(s). Thats it.

I think to some atheism is like pouring salt into an open wound. It hurts them.

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onlookerofmayhem
32 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

that position is that they don't exist.

Not believing in a god and holding a position that no god exists are two separate things.

I don't believe that any gods exist. 

This in no way, shape or form means I proclaim that no god exists.

I don't have any reason to believe one does.

So, until I have some sort of reason or evidence that one or many exist, I simply lack the belief that one does.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, and that position is that they don't exist.

Some people take the position that there are no god(s), but most take the position that there simply is insufficient evidence to warrant a belief in god(s). I take the second position.

Anything outside that have nothing to do with atheism.

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Which in turn means that we weren't created

There is no evidence that we were created. Unless you can show some ?

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

, that there is no Divine Order,

Can you offer any evidence that a thing like divine order exists ? If not, why should we believe it ?

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

no Universal Laws and Principles,

There are plenty of natural laws.

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

only chance and happenstance etc, etc, etc.

It is very simplistic to say that there is only chance and happenstance. As far as we know anything that happens does so within the laws of physics. There is a certain randomness to the natural world, but there are also rules. 

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Abramelin
On 2/19/2021 at 5:40 PM, oslove said:

I await with bated breath to read what message atheists care to tell mankind, so that mankind starting with myself will profit from it.

By atheists I include all humans who choose to not at least entertain any interest in God.

.

I think that God was nothing but an extrapolation of us humans.

We created things, we invented things, we are mothers/fathers, and so... our ancestors imagined that there was some big Mommy/Daddy up in those heavens who created all we see and experienced, and was the one who was responsible for all things happening we didn't understand.

Just like toddlers do not understand the ideas, emotions and decisions of their parents.

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Mr Walker
13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

A thread about asking the atheist a question, gets derailed by believers who have a problem with atheist. So it's not the atheist who (typically) are the problem, but the believers (typically). 

So my next bit of advice.

Never hold onto a belief that you're unwilling to question. 

Good advice

One of those questions might be 

What benefits does that belief bring to  me, and to others ?

  Another might be; Does my belief, in itself,  do harm to myself or others? (and If I act on my belief will it do harm to myself or others )

And a third could be, Is there any proof that what I believe is UNTRUE.

if any belief  brings positive (or even neutral) outcomes, and it cant be proven to be untrue, then it has legitimacy, and may serve a necessary purpose  

Thus, for most people both theism and atheism can be legitimate beliefs, serving other individual needs of the believer.  

 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, keithisco said:

I think you will find that atheism per se cannot be a "belief system". It is actually the antithesis of a belief system

Atheism is an active disbelief in the existence of gods.

That is actually the definition of (a )theism 

Thus it is identical to (as a mental construct/belief)  although the antithesis of, theism.

love is the antithesis of hate, yet both are identical mental constructs  

 

 

atheist (n.)

1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).

https://www.etymonline.com/word/atheist

 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I'm amazed why it is so difficult for some people to understand that atheism is a position on the existence of god(s). Thats it.

Atheism is indeed  a BELIEF position on the existence of gods.  Theism is the opposite belief  position.

Both become systems of belief, when they are expanded, or added on to, by other beliefs, and conclusions which flow from  them. 

eg  "There are no gods, so I must do what is right for philosophical, ethical and practical reasons."  as opposed to "I must do what is right because god is watching and judging me, and may reward or punish my behaviours ."

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I think to some atheism is like pouring salt into an open wound. It hurts them.

While I know that people who don't believe in gods are wrong,  that doesn't worry me, and their disbelief is usually logical, and with good reasons.

I have the same position as many  atheists do about  theists 

As long as what you believe doesn't hurt me, I am fine with it.

But I extend that further. I am not fine with you (generic)  doing things which hurt or limit you, because you are a pert of our society, and should be at your best in order to contribute to your community in every way possible

Plus, of course, when I see you (generic again)  hurting yourself, it hurts me 

  I am not happy with you  living a lifestyle which threatens the planet, because the earth  belongs to all of us, and our children.

Indeed, belongs is the wrong word.  We are in a symbiotic relationship with the planet and need to act as symbiotes, not parasites. 

Ie I put the health and wellbeing of  the  community /society/environment  above the individual, including myself.  but  I recognise that i can give most by remaining well resourced,  fit and well.  

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Nuclear Wessel

 

8 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

My message to mankind? Beware of charlatans like the one who started this topic.

Words to live by. :yes:

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Crazy Horse
11 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Some people take the position that there are no god(s), but most take the position that there simply is insufficient evidence to warrant a belief in god(s). I take the second position.

Anything outside that have nothing to do with atheism.

There is no evidence that we were created. Unless you can show some ?

Can you offer any evidence that a thing like divine order exists ? If not, why should we believe it ?

There are plenty of natural laws.

It is very simplistic to say that there is only chance and happenstance. As far as we know anything that happens does so within the laws of physics. There is a certain randomness to the natural world, but there are also rules. 

Whether one takes the position that there are no gods/God/GOD or whether one feels there is insufficient evidence is entirely irrelevant.

The inevitable outcome shall be a dark and poisonous seed planted within ones own mind.

The fruits of which are legion.

Good luck in finding true peace without any taint of anxiety, fear, or suffering.

 

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Timothy
11 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Whether one takes the position that there are no gods/God/GOD or whether one feels there is insufficient evidence is entirely irrelevant.

The inevitable outcome shall be a dark and poisonous seed planted within ones own mind.

The fruits of which are legion.

Good luck in finding true peace without any taint of anxiety, fear, or suffering.

 

That’s a bit grim.

Sounds like the dark and poisonous seed is within your mind.

Can you expand on this?

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Crazy Horse
12 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Not believing in a god and holding a position that no god exists are two separate things.

I don't believe that any gods exist. 

This in no way, shape or form means I proclaim that no god exists.

I don't have any reason to believe one does.

So, until I have some sort of reason or evidence that one or many exist, I simply lack the belief that one does.

So, you don't believe in god/God/GOD, but you think that god/God/GOD may actually exist..

Therefore, by your thinking, there might be a god/God/GOD, but you choose not to believe in THAT.

So basically you are agnostic.

 

 

 

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onlookerofmayhem
7 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

The inevitable outcome shall be a dark and poisonous seed planted within ones own mind.

You are completely and totally wrong.

It's a possibility, granted, but far from an inevitability.

The exact same condition can arise in a theist. Why would that be so if one does believe in a god?

Your statement is filled with an arrogance unbecoming of the love and compassion you speak of in other posts.

Life is not meaningless, filled with despair, dark or poisonous just because one doesn't have enough reason to believe in a god.

I am considerably in awe and amazement at the natural world on a daily basis. 

It's amazing to be alive and aware.

No matter how broad a brush you use to try and paint atheists into this nihilistic, pointless and bereft existence you are completely and utterly mistaken.

And as a clarification on your position :

Define god.

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Crazy Horse
4 minutes ago, Timothy said:

That’s a bit grim.

Sounds like the dark and poisonous seed is within your mind.

Can you expand on this?

Telling the truth is not dark or poisonous... although most slaves demand their imprisonment.

It is a thankless duty.

So, if one does not believe in GOD, then one must see creation, life, and humanity as ultimately being an accident, governed not by Divine Order, Laws, and Principles, and therefore, ultimately down to pure luck and chance.

This lie shall infect the minds of atheists to some degree or other, leading one to some degree of depression, negativity and even insanity.

The Dharmic Way on the other hand knows the law of karma amongst many other principles, and therefore may, if one chooses, take full control of ones life, eliminating all fear, all ignorance, etc etc etc..

There is no chance, only cause and effect.

 

 

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Crazy Horse
7 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

You are completely and totally wrong.

It's a possibility, granted, but far from an inevitability.

The exact same condition can arise in a theist. Why would that be so if one does believe in a god?

Your statement is filled with an arrogance unbecoming of the love and compassion you speak of in other posts.

Life is not meaningless, filled with despair, dark or poisonous just because one doesn't have enough reason to believe in a god.

I am considerably in awe and amazement at the natural world on a daily basis. 

It's amazing to be alive and aware.

No matter how broad a brush you use to try and paint atheists into this nihilistic, pointless and bereft existence you are completely and utterly mistaken.

And as a clarification on your position :

Define god.

No, to some degree or other, the atheistic mind is poisoned with untruth.

And what is worse, has no way out.

Edited by Crazy Horse
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onlookerofmayhem
3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

So, you don't believe in god/God/GOD, but you think that god/God/GOD may actually exist.

No. I simply don't go as far as to take the position. "God doesn't exist. It's impossible for god to exist."

5 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Therefore, by your thinking, there might be a god/God/GOD, but you choose not to believe in THAT.

No. One of the main issues here is the uncountable definitions of god.

I don't choose to not believe anything.

It's the complete lack of evidence or reason to believe the proposition.

I don't choose to disbelieve in bigfoot.

But nobody that claims it does exist has met the burden of proof to convince me.

9 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

So basically you are agnostic.

That is a semantic label.

The way I understand and use the term atheist means a lack of belief in any gods.

I've told you my position on the matter.

I don't really care how you choose to label it.

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Crazy Horse
5 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

No. I simply don't go as far as to take the position. "God doesn't exist. It's impossible for god to exist."

No. One of the main issues here is the uncountable definitions of god.

I don't choose to not believe anything.

It's the complete lack of evidence or reason to believe the proposition.

I don't choose to disbelieve in bigfoot.

But nobody that claims it does exist has met the burden of proof to convince me.

That is a semantic label.

The way I understand and use the term atheist means a lack of belief in any gods.

I've told you my position on the matter.

I don't really care how you choose to label it.

GOD is undefinable..

Therefore, is a pointless waste of time trying to define THAT.

If one has the tiniest amount of wisdom, one would realise this.

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