Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Eldorado

Utility firms price gouging as Texans suffer

69 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Liquid Gardens
38 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I don't care about "who agreed to what"!

Gotcha.  So let them enjoy the lower prices from deregulation and then later if they have to pay higher prices due to things that would have been alleviated if they were regulated, well let's just bail them out.  Heads they win, tails they win.

2 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Not to mention clearly unethical.

Only if you treat Texans like children; 'the government shouldn't protect people from their own bad decisions' is practically Texas' motto.  It's also unethical to not abide by contracts that you signed either.

5 minutes ago, pallidin said:

the privatized, unregulated utility company.

And why are they unregulated?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin

Let me just cut to the chase and ask you this............

If Texas utilities were officially regulated, would this ($7,000+ bills) happen?

Answer? No.

Why did all those people resign??????

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the governor of Texas extremely upset about what has happened?????

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The electric contract is temporarily unenforceable via the governor's emergency moritorium and now being filled in Texas court.

Any other questions?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Myles
25 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Of course not. It's greedy, it's predatory, and a few other words.

Not to mention clearly unethical.

This issue is being aggressively addressed within the highest levels and legislative priorities of the Texas state government, so things are going to happen fairly quick to help the affected citizens.

Governor Abbott respects his state, and is listening to the cries of those who can not pay for food or their home because of the rapist mentality of the privatized, unregulated utility company.

 

I totally agree.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Liquid Gardens
9 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Let me just cut to the chase and ask you this............

I think you mean, 'let me just ignore everything you just posted'.  I don't know what the relevance is that Abbott is upset; "I don't care", as you put it.

10 minutes ago, pallidin said:

If Texas utilities were officially regulated, would this ($7,000+ bills) happen?

Answer? No.

Agreed.  So again why are they unregulated?  (psst - the answer is 'Texans')  Point out where any of these energy companies lied or misled people as to the nature of how their utility costs are calculated.  I agree that people who don't know anything about wholesale pricing or economics probably shouldn't be signing up to have their utility costs linked to the wholesale price.  And how do you put limits on how high that price can go and how much can be passed on to end customers?  Regulation, which Texas specifically said they didn't want.

So yes, let's cut to the chase, which is more important: people are allowed to vote to free themselves from regulations they don't like, or that people are protected from their bad decisions by regulation whether they want to be or not.  You can only pick one, and Texas already did

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin

LG, apparently we have significant disagreements regarding this issue, which is fine... this is America.

I've said in all my previous posts what I care to say without repeating myself.

Carry-on, everyone...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Liquid Gardens
11 minutes ago, pallidin said:

LG, apparently we have significant disagreements regarding this issue, which is fine... this is America.

I think we both agree though that what we are disagreeing about is what happens after everyone has been cared for from the results of this disaster, which is the priority.  Who pays what bills is very secondary to that. 

It's just weird for me to argue from the supposed point of view of 'the right' on this - this situation is 100%, undeniably, the unfettered 'free market' at work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Autochthon1990
14 hours ago, aztek said:

why isn't Biden  doing anything about that??  now that i think of it ,i can't remember him addressing that or even attempt to help the situation at all, like it was half the world away,   if we only had strong leadership in the white house......

Well he declared an emergency and sent FEMA in, but the issue is, due to how Texas's power grid works, it's all privatized and the federal government has very little say in it. Which is what happens when you assume oligarchs will always do the right thing, instead of going for maximum profits no matter the human cost. That's what capitalism does. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin
21 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

... unfettered 'free market' at work.

Above emphasis mine...

This is the main problem, LG, existent as you know for an electrical utility ONLY in Texas as opposed to any other state, regardless of who voted it in.

Doesn't make it "right" LG, as courts have ruled across the country in their own states that any unregulated utility can be predatory, and Abbott seems not to like it all either, and he's a Republican!

 

Edited by pallidin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Liquid Gardens
29 minutes ago, pallidin said:

This is the main problem, LG, existent as you know for an electrical utility ONLY in Texas as opposed to any other state, regardless of who voted it in.

Yea, I'm not sure of the whole background and how prevalent it is.  Up here in Michigan I remember there were some other companies outside of my primary gas utility who had some kind of deal like this that came around a few years ago.  Unfortunately it's usually the least fortunate who get hurt by these kind of deals, and I do doubt that the salespeople really go over the risks involved.  I know when they were knocking on people's doors in my neighborhood the talk was about how much I'll save, not the risk involved.

35 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Doesn't make it "right" LG, as courts have ruled across the country in their own states that any unregulated utility can be predatory, and Abbott seems not to like it all either, and he's a Republican!

Rick Perry is a Republican also and one of his responses is that Texas would be willing to endure longer power outages to keep the federal government out of their business, and Texas' current set up reflects that attitude.  Abbott is a business major and went to law school, he didn't seem to have an issue with this before this happened, and his first instinct was to falsely blame wind power and the Green New Deal.  I really think that basing anything on Abbott's reaction is pointless, he's established that one of his top priorities is politics here.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin

Texans are "willing" to withstand absurd utility costs in support of national seperation?!?!?!

Maybe for a few, but generally INSANE and rather a function of the corporate "money grabbers"

Thank you.

Edited by pallidin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Liquid Gardens
11 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Texans are "willing" to withstand absurd utility costs in support of national seperation?!?!?!

They appeared to be willing withstand the risk of absurd utility costs.  This risk paid off for a long time, until it didn't. 

11 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Maybe for a few, but generally INSANE and rather a function of the corporate "money grabbers"

Wonder how many wealthy Texans and businesses have been enjoying these lower energy costs under deregulation - 'money grabbers' is relative.  It will be interesting to see where the money grabbing actually occurred in this case, that I'm not sure about whether it's the electricity providers, gas providers, these wholesalers, etc.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin
18 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

They appeared to be willing withstand the risk of absurd utility costs.  This risk paid off for a long time, until it didn't. 

Wonder how many wealthy Texans and businesses have been enjoying these lower energy costs under deregulation - 'money grabbers' is relative.  It will be interesting to see where the money grabbing actually occurred in this case, that I'm not sure about whether it's the electricity providers, gas providers, these wholesalers, etc.

Let me tell you something right now and across our nation... there is no such thing as "relative money grabbers".

Either they are, or not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin

LG, I'm changing our dinner arrangements tonight...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robotic Jew

Gotta love capitalism....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatetopa
7 hours ago, RAyMO said:

I have read that Texas was not connected to the national grid - so when things went belly up with there was no external supply to call on. 

This isolationist policy needs chucked asap. 

Texas wanted to keep local control of their power grid, and keep it away from federal regulation.  That might be a reasonable thing to do if managed. There are physical links though, just not enough to power the state. .  

As a former Texan, my bet is that the failure is local oversight.  Texas politicians, not much different than any others listened to their donors and lobbyists and did not force winterization.  They left their constituents to fend for themselves because their money, power, and privilege depend on how happy they keep their donors.  My uncle Grady  was a state senator from Midland Texas back in  the day.   Whether he was more honest than the current crop, I can't say.  I did get to sit in the visitors gallery in Austin once and watch him perform. Quite impressive as a white haired, craggy old cowboy.  Of course I still have relatives scattered about in Texas.  The ones in Midland and Lubbock are probably 30 miles from a power plant and 50 miles from some of the biggest oil and gas fields in the country.  Did not help them much. A state government with foresight and concern for its citizens might have displayed it before they started freezing to death. 

3 hours ago, pallidin said:

This issue is being aggressively addressed within the highest levels and legislative priorities of the Texas state government, so things are going to happen fairly quick to help the affected citizens.

Governor Abbott respects his state, and is listening to the cries of those who can not pay for food or their home because of the rapist mentality of the privatized, unregulated utility company.

My good friend, I wouldn't hold your breath too long on this one.  They will aggressively address it  just after they put the sour cream and chives on the baked potato. accompanying  a nice steak dinner courtesy of  an oil company exec.  Then  they will respond a little bit until they can move their feet out of the fire a touch.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin
5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Texas wanted to keep local control of their power grid, and keep it away from federal regulation.  That might be a reasonable thing to do if managed. There are physical links though, just not enough to power the state. .  

As a former Texan, my bet is that the failure is local oversight.  Texas politicians, not much different than any others listened to their donors and lobbyists and did not force winterization.  They left their constituents to fend for themselves because their money, power, and privilege depend on how happy they keep their donors.  My uncle Grady  was a state senator from Midland Texas back in  the day.   Whether he was more honest than the current crop, I can't say.  I did get to sit in the visitors gallery in Austin once and watch him perform. Quite impressive as a white haired, craggy old cowboy.  Of course I still have relatives scattered about in Texas.  The ones in Midland and Lubbock are probably 30 miles from a power plant and 50 miles from some of the biggest oil and gas fields in the country.  Did not help them much. A state government with foresight and concern for its citizens might have displayed it before they started freezing to death. 

My good friend, I wouldn't hold your breath too long on this one.  They will aggressively address it  just after they put the sour cream and chives on the baked potato. accompanying  a nice steak dinner courtesy of  an oil company exec.  Then  they will respond a little bit until they can move their feet out of the fire a touch.  

Ah, thank you for reminding me about sour cream. I need to get some more.

Hmmmmmm.... steak.....

:passifier:

Yeah, I hear you on the oil execs.

Edited by pallidin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
moonman

Whatever contracts utility users agreed to, there should be some kind of price cap. $7000 for a week's electricity in a residential house is beyond insane and no one should pay that. If that happened to me I'd tell them to shove it and go off the grid out of spite.

Edited by moonman
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin
Just now, moonman said:

Whatever contracts utility users agreed to, there should be some kind of price cap. $7000 for a week's electricity in a residential house is beyond insane and no one should pay that.

Nor will they.

Gov. Abbott has intervened, and Texans are about ready to pull-out their guns over this blatant absurdity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Katniss
42 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

Gotta love capitalism....

It's great when it benefits everyone. But sucks when it only benefits the few.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joc
6 hours ago, Setton said:

 

Are you... arguing with yourself now?

No...I'm just saying there is no National Grid.  There is an Eastern Grid...A Western Grid...and a Texas Grid.  There is no National Grid per say.

But also see, Texas is a Republic.  We kind of take charge of our own state.  But also see, Texas is the 2nd largest state in the country...and the Largest Continental State.  And...we are a Republic...but now I'm just repeating myself...and since I have you on Ignore...I will go back to just ignoring you since you rarely ...very rarely...have anything intelligent to add to any conversation.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Setton
4 hours ago, joc said:

No...I'm just saying there is no National Grid.  There is an Eastern Grid...A Western Grid...and a Texas Grid.  There is no National Grid per say.

But also see, Texas is a Republic.  We kind of take charge of our own state.  But also see, Texas is the 2nd largest state in the country...and the Largest Continental State.  And...we are a Republic...but now I'm just repeating

So you quote the definition of the national grid to show there is no national grid. 

Then you post quotes that show the Texas grid is disconnected from the rest to demonstrate that it isn't disconnected from the rest.

Even for you, it's an.... entertaining...angle.

Quote

..and since I have you on Ignore...I will go back to just ignoring you since you rarely ...very rarely...have anything intelligent to add to any conversation.

Kind of odd that you took me off ignore just on the off chance you thought it was worth replying to one of my unintelligent contributions :rolleyes:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pallidin

Yeah, and in defense of all the Texans affected by the obvious rape...THIS...

 

Edited by pallidin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joc
42 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Yeah, and in defense of all the Texans affected by the obvious rape...THIS...

 

Oh wow! Rush...Tom Sawyer...I've never heard that song before...oh wait ...I have...only every day of my life on some classic rock station

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
10 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Gotcha.  So let them enjoy the lower prices from deregulation and then later if they have to pay higher prices due to things that would have been alleviated if they were regulated, well let's just bail them out.  Heads they win, tails they win.

Only if you treat Texans like children; 'the government shouldn't protect people from their own bad decisions' is practically Texas' motto.  It's also unethical to not abide by contracts that you signed either.

And why are they unregulated?

Were Citizens aware of costs capable of escalating up to 16k a week though? That's just insane.

I just can't see how they justify that level of increase. As a consumer I'd be asking for a full breakdown of how the cost is calculated.

Mobile phone companies had a similar situation, some still do I believe. Pretty sure courts made them rationalise charges. 

https://www.tio.com.au/help/billing-and-payments/high-and-disputed-charges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peter B
8 hours ago, moonman said:

Whatever contracts utility users agreed to, there should be some kind of price cap. $7000 for a week's electricity in a residential house is beyond insane and no one should pay that. If that happened to me I'd tell them to shove it and go off the grid out of spite.

There is a 'sort-of' price cap.

This article (sorry, quite long) discusses a bunch of issues relating to the storm. One side issue it mentions is that during the storm the wholesale price of electricity per megawatt hour spiked "...from an average of around $35 to ERCOT’s maximum of $9,000..." So people on contracts which tied the price of their electricity to the wholesale price theoretically knew their bills couldn't increase by more than a factor of about 257.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.