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Great Old Man

Mandatory Vaccination, Double Edge sword

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Hyperionxvii
On 3/10/2021 at 12:08 PM, Autochthon1990 said:

There's seven billion people on this earth, is having less kids /really/ the worst idea out there?

It would probably be a great 'choice' by a lot of people. It's the worst idea ever when it's forced. Where I come from, that's called tyranny. There's nothing good about that. 

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Trelane

Over 3  weeks since my second dose and still no ill side effects. Much like all the other stuff the Army has shot into me for over 20 years, nothing. 

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Hyperionxvii
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Over 3  weeks since my second dose and still no ill side effects. Much like all the other stuff the Army has shot into me for over 20 years, nothing. 

I work in a medical research environment. I've never seen a drug, much less a totally new one (not really a drug), that has ever been tried before, rushed through like this. How can they know the long term effects, when it's been less than a year?

I mean, I'm totally OK with anyone who wants to try it, but it should never be forced upon us at this point. I'm not going anyway near that.  

 

Edited by Hyperionxvii
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psyche101
4 hours ago, Hyperionxvii said:

I work in a medical research environment. I've never seen a drug, much less a totally new one (not really a drug), that has ever been tried before, rushed through like this. How can they know the long term effects, when it's been less than a year?

I mean, I'm totally OK with anyone who wants to try it, but it should never be forced upon us at this point. I'm not going anyway near that.  

Totally new you reckon? What area do you work in? 

First trials of mRNA vaccines were on mice in the early 90s. It's not a new concept. The application of it on humans for viruses is. It's not a brand new idea never thought of before as it seems to often be described as. 

People should learn more about it rather than make wild assumptions. 

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and then
On 3/3/2021 at 1:41 PM, bee said:

We could also wonder what those who GOT vaccinated are thinking when they still get sick....sometimes very sick -

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered

39 and widely confirmed to be healthy and energetic prior to this "life saving" vaccine...

I'm tired of the BS surrounding this virus and the religious fervor of those who are pushing the vaccine...  Let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences.  If these vaccines are so safe and desirable, what's the problem with waiting a few months more before taking them?  I mean, most politicians I've heard are saying we'll STILL have to behave as though there is no vaccine even after we receive it.  Forgive me for having my doubts...

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Scholar4Truth

It's been two weeks since my mom had her Covid-19 shot and no problems at all.

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psyche101
1 hour ago, and then said:

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered

39 and widely confirmed to be healthy and energetic prior to this "life saving" vaccine...

I'm tired of the BS surrounding this virus and the religious fervor of those who are pushing the vaccine...  Let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences.  If these vaccines are so safe and desirable, what's the problem with waiting a few months more before taking them?  I mean, most politicians I've heard are saying we'll STILL have to behave as though there is no vaccine even after we receive it.  Forgive me for having my doubts...

Her 69 year old grandfather is doing fine after having it with her. If this was the vaccine causing septic shock, why would it take four days? That's not how it works.

You're sick of people hyping stuff up and here you are drawing imaginary connecting lines.

You carry on about how few die from Covid, yet rant on about a fraction of a fraction of that number in deaths that you link to vaccines before any medical personnel does. There's not even any proof that it was the vaccine, and although 95.7 million doses have been administered you see this link as worthy of screaming about and fear mongering.

You're just an angry old man stuck in his ways peeved at the world ranting BS. Go sit on a porch somewhere with your shotgun and yell at passers by why don't you. 

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Timothy
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Her 69 year old grandfather is doing fine after having it with her. If this was the vaccine causing septic shock, why would it take four days? That's not how it works.

You're sick of people hyping stuff up and here you are drawing imaginary connecting lines.

You carry on about how few die from Covid, yet rant on about a fraction of a fraction of that number in deaths that you link to vaccines before any medical personnel does. There's not even any proof that it was the vaccine, and although 95.7 million doses have been administered you see this link as worthy of screaming about and fear mongering.

You're just an angry old man stuck in his ways peeved at the world ranting BS. Go sit on a porch somewhere with your shotgun and yell at passers by why don't you. 

From @and then’s article (https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered):

An autopsy could also identify a cause of death the family was unaware of, where doctors find undiagnosed pneumonia, cancer or an unknown heart condition. Christensen said there are many people — even young people — walking around with major health issues they simply don’t know about.

Her father agreed. He said Kurill was “healthy and good — then she took the shot.” He points to "Occam’s Razor, where the simplest answer is mostly likely correct.”

—————

Occam’s Razor, in this case, would point to undiagnosed medical condition as being the main cause of death. 
Whether the vaccine was the trigger for her deterioration or not will hopefully be answered with the autopsy.

The vaccination being the main cause of death is unlikely. 

Blood infection from contaminated needle is more likely

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psyche101
14 minutes ago, Timothy said:

From @and then’s article (https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered):

An autopsy could also identify a cause of death the family was unaware of, where doctors find undiagnosed pneumonia, cancer or an unknown heart condition. Christensen said there are many people — even young people — walking around with major health issues they simply don’t know about.

Her father agreed. He said Kurill was “healthy and good — then she took the shot.” He points to "Occam’s Razor, where the simplest answer is mostly likely correct.”

—————

Occam’s Razor, in this case, would point to undiagnosed medical condition as being the main cause of death. 
Whether the vaccine was the trigger for her deterioration or not will hopefully be answered with the autopsy.

The vaccination being the main cause of death is unlikely. 

Blood infection from contaminated needle is more likely

Agreed. These anti vaxer nutters have zero logic behind their hysterical cries. 

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Golden Duck
25 minutes ago, Timothy said:

From @and then’s article (https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered):

An autopsy could also identify a cause of death the family was unaware of, where doctors find undiagnosed pneumonia, cancer or an unknown heart condition. Christensen said there are many people — even young people — walking around with major health issues they simply don’t know about.

Her father agreed. He said Kurill was “healthy and good — then she took the shot.” He points to "Occam’s Razor, where the simplest answer is mostly likely correct.”

—————

Occam’s Razor, in this case, would point to undiagnosed medical condition as being the main cause of death. 
Whether the vaccine was the trigger for her deterioration or not will hopefully be answered with the autopsy.

The vaccination being the main cause of death is unlikely. 

Blood infection from contaminated needle is more likely

Occam's Razor shouldn't be applied to medicine. Patients can have as many conditions as they damn well like.

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Mr.United_Nations

Been nearly 2 months since I had my first jab and  no side effects so far

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bee
5 hours ago, and then said:

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered

39 and widely confirmed to be healthy and energetic prior to this "life saving" vaccine...

I'm tired of the BS surrounding this virus and the religious fervor of those who are pushing the vaccine...  Let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences.  If these vaccines are so safe and desirable, what's the problem with waiting a few months more before taking them?  I mean, most politicians I've heard are saying we'll STILL have to behave as though there is no vaccine even after we receive it.  Forgive me for having my doubts...

 

re the bolded above ---- I hear you

everything about the subject seems to be laced with heightened emotion and knee jerk reactions and I think we can blame the MSM for that... mostly... 

The ideal situation (as you say) is if people are allowed to make their own (informed) choices - but when it becomes mandatory - literally or because of restrictions that severely affect normal activities...... that's when we are in new and dangerous territory ...

 

 

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Setton
8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Totally new you reckon? What area do you work in? 

First trials of mRNA vaccines were on mice in the early 90s. It's not a new concept. The application of it on humans for viruses is. It's not a brand new idea never thought of before as it seems to often be described as. 

People should learn more about it rather than make wild assumptions. 

But... but... he works in a 'medical research environment'!

 

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psyche101
1 hour ago, bee said:

 

re the bolded above ---- I hear you

everything about the subject seems to be laced with heightened emotion and knee jerk reactions and I think we can blame the MSM for that... mostly... 

The ideal situation (as you say) is if people are allowed to make their own (informed) choices - but when it becomes mandatory - literally or because of restrictions that severely affect normal activities...... that's when we are in new and dangerous territory ...

 

 

giphy.gif

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psyche101
7 minutes ago, Setton said:

But... but... he works in a 'medical research environment'!

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSB4nli63vE0KraMNVStuF

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Liquid Gardens
9 hours ago, and then said:

If these vaccines are so safe and desirable, what's the problem with waiting a few months more before taking them? 

Nothing, as long as you stay inside your home in the meantime.  Almost all people have trouble comprehending large numbers, but half a million people dead is a rather important and relevant data point.  I'm not sure though about the statistical relevance of one person who died, from still unknown causes, out of 95 million vaccination doses administered in this country - I'd wager that the average person's drive to the pharmacy or health dept to get a vaccination puts their health more at risk than the shot.

9 hours ago, and then said:

Let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences. 

Unfortunately it's not always just the people making the choices who have to deal with the consequences.

9 hours ago, and then said:

I mean, most politicians I've heard are saying we'll STILL have to behave as though there is no vaccine even after we receive it.  Forgive me for having my doubts...

Well the obvious issue there is that we shouldn't be taking medical advice from politicians. Some medical doctors and organizations do say you should continue to wear masks and distance right now (current estimate at ~60K new cases per day) after being vaccinated and it is nearly effortless to find why they recommend that; what is wrong with their reasoning?

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Myles

In 2 weeks I'll be able to choose between 3 vaccines.   I wish there was more info available on the comparisons between them.  

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Hyperionxvii
13 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Totally new you reckon? What area do you work in? 

First trials of mRNA vaccines were on mice in the early 90s. It's not a new concept. The application of it on humans for viruses is. It's not a brand new idea never thought of before as it seems to often be described as. 

People should learn more about it rather than make wild assumptions. 

You may read my post again, and note that I said 'tried', which meant tried in humans. It is NOT a wild assumption that a mRNA vaccine has never been tried in humans and pushed out this fast. That's not a wild assumption my friend. 

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Mr.United_Nations

Curious where do you study?

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Trelane
6 hours ago, Myles said:

In 2 weeks I'll be able to choose between 3 vaccines.   I wish there was more info available on the comparisons between them.  

I think the big difference comes down to flavor :P

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Scholar4Truth
18 hours ago, and then said:

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered

39 and widely confirmed to be healthy and energetic prior to this "life saving" vaccine...

I'm tired of the BS surrounding this virus and the religious fervor of those who are pushing the vaccine...  Let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences.  If these vaccines are so safe and desirable, what's the problem with waiting a few months more before taking them?  I mean, most politicians I've heard are saying we'll STILL have to behave as though there is no vaccine even after we receive it.  Forgive me for having my doubts...

I don't think anyone is forcing anyone to get the Covid-19 shot. You said let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences. So are you saying let people make the choice to get Covid-19 and possibly die?

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Hyperionxvii
1 minute ago, Scholar4Truth said:

I don't think anyone is forcing anyone to get the Covid-19 shot. You said let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences. So are you saying let people make the choice to get Covid-19 and possibly die?

No one is, probably will never be, holding down people and injecting them with the vaccine. Of course that is not a worry. What people are worried about is that people will be coerced into it by threat of being unemployed, being unable to travel, or any other condition that will be life altering to that person, so basically being forced to take it.  

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Trelane
38 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

No one is, probably will never be, holding down people and injecting them with the vaccine. Of course that is not a worry. What people are worried about is that people will be coerced into it by threat of being unemployed, being unable to travel, or any other condition that will be life altering to that person, so basically being forced to take it.  

I personally don't see that ever developing. Even in the more regimented and orders-based organizations in the DoD we are still given the option to get the shot(s) or not. There have been no ominous briefings or or passive threats. It has been stressed at all levels that it is voluntary. We don't get a choice for the annual flu shots but for these vaccines all servicemembers do have a choice.

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Hyperionxvii
33 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I personally don't see that ever developing. Even in the more regimented and orders-based organizations in the DoD we are still given the option to get the shot(s) or not. There have been no ominous briefings or or passive threats. It has been stressed at all levels that it is voluntary. We don't get a choice for the annual flu shots but for these vaccines all servicemembers do have a choice.

Man, I really wish you are right. But unfortunately, I do see it happening. 

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DingoLingo
On 2/26/2021 at 7:06 PM, XenoFish said:

I've never had a flu shot. Still doubt I'll get the covid one.

I'm the same.. got a good immune system.. very very rarely get sick.. my common flu is a irritated throat and runny nose where everyone else gets laid up in bed.. (love it now I am older.. hated that when I was a kid.. my sisters would get off of school for a week while I had to go) 

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