What is God ?

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, Guyver said:

Do you enjoy Chinese food?  You know, those wonderful noodles, the rice and beef or chicken flavored so nicely?  Delicious food isn’t it?  Well, you sit down and you enjoy this wonderful meal and you go about your business.  As you are going about your business, your body is burning up those calories that you have input through metabolic transfer, and guess what?  Not long after that delicious meal, you are hungry again and your body begins that struggle for survival, which never actually stopped.  That is suffering.  Forget to hydrate yourself for a day?  If you are like most people, dehydration will begin to set in and you will suffer.  Maybe some more than others, but for me the first thing that happens is I get a headache.  That is physical suffering and everyone gets it.  So, no...humans cannot live without suffering Mr. Walker.  And that is only an example of one aspect of suffering, the struggle for survival.  Now,  add to that emotional, mental,  and spiritual suffering that occurs for a myriad of reasons.  Pleasure and pain as we know them are opposite ends of the same scale, and in between is suffering all the way through but in lesser or greater amounts.  I think you pretend to not suffer in your own mind by blocking out those inputs and refusing to see that you do actually suffer to some degree, like every other person, continuously.

No That is hunger 

Suffering is the (one)  mental  attitude I (may)  construct about that feeling of hunger 

Same with pain. Your headache is pain You only suffer from  it if  you  think of it as  negative . 

I have experienced excruciating pain, but I've never suffered from  it ie I saw the pain as a natural response of my body and a sign that I was alive  

To use the hunger example. I used to do the 40 hour famine, where you ate nothing, and drank nothing but water, for 40 hours. I got pretty hungry and yes got headaches at times,  but I felt good about it because I was  raising  money to feed people who were always hungry 

Emotional and psychological suffering is even less necessary The y are all cognitive choices made about how we choose to respond to adversity, loss, grief, illness etc 

I am not saying everyone could or should have this attitude, but it certainly makes life a lot happier and more bearable, even  more enjoyable,  and anyone CAN live life this way if they want to,   because  the human mind allows us to. 

I think you are wrong about me but, even if you were right, the end result is a life where, for over 45 years of it, I have NEVER suffered from anything

The last time I experienced suffering was when I was about 19 and my first true love and serious girlfriend left me to join the air force   

Edited February 28, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Everyone has their own path, but if you are cottonwalled from life you simply will not get to the answers that you seek.   What is it all about?   If you think life is work, dinner sleep repeat, then die, you need to think more.

It's on its way, so be prepared.

Throw a rock in the air, there will always be someone who has suffered one way or another.    I remember someone told me they had to look after their families children because of an emergency.   Some woman had such an emergency because she cracked a nail and had to go and get it fixed asap.      Now we enter the levels of suffering.   We all suffer something, more than others and less than others, all depends how you view what life is about??

I strongly disagree. While we CAN learn from adversity which is forced upon us, it is not necessary.

We can learn as much by success, and by learning how to avoid pain or suffering etc   We can all imagine or extrapolate the negative effects of certain behaviours/choices  and thus avoid them and the pain or hurt which would have gone with them. 

Life is the inner experience of our minds.

Personally I get great pleasure from  that experience, and would like to prolong it as long as possible.

I make it challenging, educative, interesting, etc   enabling constant evolution, and  growth of my mind.  

None of the things you mentioned need entail suffering.

As you said, it depends on how we VIEW an experience, whether or not it involves any suffering. 

My wife and I looked after her parents 24/7 for almost 10 years while I was working full time as a teacher Many days I got to sleep after 2 am and was up again by 7. 

There was no suffering in it, although it was hard physical work at times. Indeed it was the most rewarding and pleasurable experience of my life. 

We lost almost every thing we had owned/ built together/ over 30 years of marriage  ( including treasured family heirlooms, photos etc.) in a bushfire,and only just escaped with our lives  We never suffered for a minute through any of it,  and personally I experienced no trauma at all. 

The experience  was challenging but  fascinating, rewarding; enabling growth, a  restart, and a new life  

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

No That is hunger 

Suffering is the (one)  mental  attitude I (may)  construct about that feeling of hunger 

Same with pain. Your headache is pain You only suffer from  it if  you  think of it as  negative . 

I have experienced excruciating pain, but I've never suffered from  it ie I saw the pain as a natural response of my body and a sign that I was alive  

To use the hunger example. I used to do the 40 hour famine, where you ate nothing, and drank nothing but water, for 40 hours. I got pretty hungry and yes got headaches at times,  but I felt good about it because I was  raising  money to feed people who were always hungry 

Emotional and psychological suffering is even less necessary The y are all cognitive choices made about how we choose to respond to adversity, loss, grief, illness etc 

I am not saying everyone could or should have this attitude, but it certainly makes life a lot happier and more bearable, even  more enjoyable,  and anyone CAN live life this way if they want to,   because  the human mind allows us to. 

I think you are wrong about me but, even if you were right, the end result is a life where, for over 45 years of it, I have NEVER suffered from anything

The last time I experienced suffering was when I was about 19 and my first true love and serious girlfriend left me to join the air force   

I understand what you’re saying about the power of the mind and I do accept it as possible.  I would guess that represents about 1% of the population.  So what you’re saying is you are among the 1% of people in the world, like the famous Buddhist Monk who lit himself on fire in protest and burned to death without screaming by the power of his mind.  Well, you are rare.  Not many people are like that.

If I were lit on fire, I’m pretty sure I would scream in pain.  But, you wouldn’t have to.

[psyche101]

23 hours ago, White-Coyote said:

In other words "we don't know yet but we're trying to find out" sort of

Alright, im down with that.

I wouldn't put it like that. 

More like we know in theory and are in the process of putting that into practice so it can be demonstrated upon demand. 

23 hours ago, White-Coyote said:

So are you scientists? Just curious, you seem to know your stuff

Nope. Basically a construction worker with a telescope. 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

I understand what you’re saying about the power of the mind and I do accept it as possible.  I would guess that represents about 1% of the population.  So what you’re saying is you are among the 1% of people in the world, like the famous Buddhist Monk who lit himself on fire in protest and burned to death without screaming by the power of his mind.  Well, you are rare.  Not many people are like that.

If I were lit on fire, I’m pretty sure I would scream in pain.  But, you wouldn’t have to.

I would probably scream in pain  although i have experienced extreme pain (enough for me to pass out)without screaming.

I dont know about the percentage.

I suspect it is a bit higher  than1% but still small.

But anyone/ every one can learn the skills and mental disciplines  to achieve that tranquillity of mind    

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Guyver said:

I understand what you’re saying about the power of the mind and I do accept it as possible.  I would guess that represents about 1% of the population.  So what you’re saying is you are among the 1% of people in the world, like the famous Buddhist Monk who lit himself on fire in protest and burned to death without screaming by the power of his mind.  Well, you are rare.  Not many people are like that.

If I were lit on fire, I’m pretty sure I would scream in pain.  But, you wouldn’t have to.

My employer suffers with excruciating neuropathic pain, which are like electrical shocks shooting through the few areas that are not paralyzed on top of being a quadriplegic. There are times in conjunction with pain meds that she is able to use meditation to help lessen her pain, as a Doctor herself she utilizes all paths to pain relief, but it is hit and miss. Like the human she is she suffers with agonizing unrelenting pain some days and we are not always successful in getting her pain even dulled. Those that live with chronic pain and they may not say anything, but you can see it in their face and they do suffer physical pain and there isn’t much one can do for relief. For me, the worst physical pain has been childbirth. To me suffering in chronic pain would be the equivalent of this. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

12 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I would probably scream in pain  although i have experienced extreme pain (enough for me to pass out)without screaming.

I dont know about the percentage.

I suspect it is a bit higher  than1% but still small.

But anyone/ every one can learn the skills and mental disciplines  to achieve that tranquillity of mind    

An opportunity to piggy back an add to...
Not at you.

In my line of work, (caregiver) we say there are 2 types of healers those that have compassion and those that don’t. This is neither right or wrong but, for the person who suffers with a caregiver that lacks in understanding all aspects of pain aka compassion (in my experience) only compounds another’s suffering, in other words, it is the single biggest onslaught to a person’s dignity in caregiver/ patient dynamic to dismiss their pain as “all in their head.” Fact:  there is physical pain due to the bodies mechanics and due to various chronic conditions for ex: the pain receptors can over respond, in turn, being hard to treat with pharmaceuticals, so the caregiver has to get creative- a caregiver never gives up on understanding all aspects of the pain mental, emotional, physical and experiential pain reality of the patient the caregiver seeks pain resolutions on a daily basis, chronic pain is a physical impairment it interferes with ADL’s and quality of life and never completely goes away. Having a arsenal of good ideas ( strategies that work on other days) the better. 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:09 AM, Sherapy said:

An opportunity to piggy back an add to...
Not at you.

In my line of work, (caregiver) we say there are 2 types of healers those that have compassion and those that don’t. This is neither right or wrong but, for the person who suffers with a caregiver that lacks in understanding all aspects of pain aka compassion (in my experience) only compounds another’s suffering, in other words, it is the single biggest onslaught to a person’s dignity in caregiver/ patient dynamic to dismiss their pain as “all in their head.” Fact:  there is physical pain due to the bodies mechanics and due to various chronic conditions for ex: the pain receptors can over respond, in turn, being hard to treat with pharmaceuticals, so the caregiver has to get creative- a caregiver never gives up on understanding all aspects of the pain mental, emotional, physical and experiential pain reality of the patient the caregiver seeks pain resolutions on a daily basis, chronic pain is a physical impairment it interferes with ADL’s and quality of life and never completely goes away. Having a arsenal of good ideas ( strategies that work on other days) the better. 

 

i
 

 

good advice  Our doctor was explaining to my wife how chronic  pain is like a pathway burned in the neural system over time.

Even when the  physical source of  pain  is gone, pain may travel that path and cause chronic pain.

  There is a gateway at the base of the brain which regulates the passage of pain, and if this can be regulated by chemicals, or mental strategies like meditation or prayer, pain is greatly reduced.

She can't take opioid pain killers, and non opioids are increasingly not enough, so he is looking at ways to perhaps regulate that gateway to reduce the perception of pain

That involves both scans, and blood tests, to start  with   (fortunately all free for us) 

 Yea I  know its frustrating, and not helpful, to tell anyone their pain is all in their head, yet technically, sometimes that is completely correct,

Eg an amputee may suffer bad pain in a leg which no longer exists.

It is not possible for the leg to be generating pain,  and it is not coming from  the nerve endings at the amputation site,  so the source of the pain is  entirely in the mind. Long term chronic pain often no longer has any physical source It is the pathways burned in the brain and nerves  which keep pain being felt without ANY physical source 

quote 

But unfortunately, just like pain can make you feel worse mentally, your mind can cause pain without a physical source, or make preexisting pain increase or linger. This phenomenon is called psychogenic pain, and it occurs when your pain is related to underlying psychological, emotional, or behavioral factors.

https://www.dignityhealth.org/articles/psychogenic-pain-is-real-pain-causes-and-treatments#:~:text=But unfortunately%2C just like pain,%2C emotional%2C or behavioral factors.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

good advice  Our doctor was explaining to my wife how chronic  pain is like a pathway burned in the neural system over time.

Even when the  physical source of  pain  is gone, pain may travel that path and cause chronic pain.

  There is a gateway at the base of the brain which regulates the passage of pain, and if this can be regulated by chemicals, or mental strategies like meditation or prayer, pain is greatly reduced.

She can't take opioid pain killers, and non opioids are increasingly not enough, so he is looking at ways to perhaps regulate that gateway to reduce the perception of pain

That involves both scans, and blood tests, to start  with   (fortunately all free for us) 

 Yea I  know its frustrating, and not helpful, to tell anyone their pain is all in their head, yet technically, sometimes that is completely correct,

Eg an amputee may suffer bad pain in a leg which no longer exists.

It is not possible for the leg to be generating pain,  and it is not coming from  the nerve endings at the amputation site,  so the source of the pain is  entirely in the mind. Long term chronic pain often no longer has any physical source It is the pathways burned in the brain and nerves  which keep pain being felt without ANY physical source 

quote 

But unfortunately, just like pain can make you feel worse mentally, your mind can cause pain without a physical source, or make preexisting pain increase or linger. This phenomenon is called psychogenic pain, and it occurs when your pain is related to underlying psychological, emotional, or behavioral factors.

https://www.dignityhealth.org/articles/psychogenic-pain-is-real-pain-causes-and-treatments#:~:text=But unfortunately%2C just like pain,%2C emotional%2C or behavioral factors.

 

 

In the medical profession here in the US this is called the mind body connection and yeah, there is a subjective component to pain. Great add to. 
 

My heart goes out to your wife, I will include her in my prayers, my employer’s both have chronic pain and I leave no stone unturned looking for pain relief ideas I have taken a  course in massage, working for Doctors is a plus especially one who needs physical therapy and I get to come and learn. Same for my other lady with Parkinson’s physical therapy is a plethora of great ideas. I use yoga asana’s, I have a yoga dome it is portable it can be inflated and heated. The moist heat coupled with massage or gentle stretching ( I am a certified yoga instructor too) does wonders, there are all kinds of ways to encourage exercise which in and of itself helps, but a person in chronic pain isn’t an easy sell on exercise.  Just trying to find solutions as a team player seems to address the mindset of pain, acting from empathy and kindness seems to help too, it seems just having someone who cares and comes from compassion helps another’s mood so much, maybe the pain isn’t gone but the person doesn’t feel as if no one understands their vulnerabilities. For me, it is simply an honor to be of service. 

https://www.thehotyogadome.com/products/the-home-dome

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

In the medical profession here in the US this is called the mind body connection and yeah, there is a subjective component to pain. Great add to. 
 

My heart goes out to your wife, I will include her in my prayers, my employer’s both have chronic pain and I leave no stone unturned looking for pain relief ideas I have taken a  course in massage, working for Doctors is a plus especially one who needs physical therapy and I get to come and learn. Same for my other lady with Parkinson’s physical therapy is a plethora of great ideas. I use yoga asana’s, I have a yoga dome it is portable it can be inflated and heated. The moist heat coupled with massage or gentle stretching ( I am a certified yoga instructor too) does wonders, there are all kinds of ways to encourage exercise which in and of itself helps, but a person in chronic pain isn’t an easy sell on exercise.  Just trying to find solutions as a team player seems to address the mindset of pain, acting from empathy and kindness seems to help too, it seems just having someone who cares and comes from compassion helps another’s mood so much, maybe the pain isn’t gone but the person doesn’t feel as if no one understands their vulnerabilities. For me, it is simply an honor to be of service. 

https://www.thehotyogadome.com/products/the-home-dome

yep, as long as my wife is sitting still she has little pain, but any movement  makes it severe.

it is why she gave up on physiotherapy and exercise classes.

its a catch 22, however, of which we are both aware Limiting mobility to prevent pain   leads to lack of abilty to move, as muscles etc weaken,   and eventually inability to walk unaided, or at all.  

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

Much appreciated   

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

36 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

yep, as long as my wife is sitting still she has little pain, but any movement  makes it severe.

it is why she gave up on physiotherapy and exercise classes.

its a catch 22, however, of which we are both aware Limiting mobility to prevent pain   leads to lack of abilty to move, as muscles etc weaken,   and eventually inability to walk unaided, or at all.  

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

Much appreciated   

Definitely, there is a fine line inactivity only makes the pain worse, for me, getting training in physical therapy helped teach me about this, how to walk the pain line and find ways to move (exercise) geared towards their needs. Remember every movement counts as exercise. 
 

The Doctor I work for has a chronic pain experience too like your wife. Dr. Cee Cee has horrible neuropathic pain that keeps her down for days including not able to sleep, yet she knows she has to move her muscles or it will only get worse. Just gentle movement counts as exercise and over time works wonders, so does gentle yoga. There are times I just sit and massage her pain areas my whole shift and by the time I leave she has been able to sit up.  The objective is to get the pain to the place she can tolerate it and live her life, she will always have pain but not every day is a bad day, so we enjoy the good days and pack as much life into these days as we can. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Definitely, there is a fine line inactivity only makes the pain worse, for me, getting training in physical therapy helped teach me about this, how to walk the pain line and find ways to move (exercise) geared towards their needs. Remember every movement counts as exercise. 
 

The Doctor I work for has a chronic pain experience too like your wife. Dr. Cee Cee has horrible neuropathic pain that keeps her down for days including not able to sleep, yet she knows she has to move her muscles or it will only get worse. Just gentle movement counts as exercise and over time works wonders, so does gentle yoga. The are times I just sit and massage her pain areas my whole shift and by the time I leave she has been able to sit up.  The objective is to get the pain to the place she can tolerate it and live her life, she will always have pain but not every day is a bad day, so we enjoy the good days and pack as much life into these days as we can. 

Hi Sherapy

When I had 3 ruptured discs in my back even if I was bed bound I would walk around the block one time 3 times a day, I had to learn how to use my body in a different way and there where times I turned my upper body and ended up on my hands and knees and had others with good intention try to help by would grab me and try and twist me in a way that was not helpful and would insist on them letting me get up my way.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

When I had 3 ruptured discs in my back even if I was bed bound I would walk around the block one time 3 times a day, I had to learn how to use my body in a different way and there where times I turned my upper body and ended up on my hands and knees and had others with good intention try to help by would grab me and try and twist me in a way that was not helpful and would insist on them letting me get up my way.

jmccr8

Yes, listening to the person determines the only best outcome, We have little tolerance for PT’s, or doctors or nurses etc etc that are know it alls. 

We see these types a lot too.

The best teacher of ones physical abilities is the person living in the body. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

Hi Sherapy

Admittedly I am stubborn so when I was disabled I would walk the rails of the tracks for 21/2-3 miles from my place to my brothers just to regain my sense of balance because of the types of work that I did. I spent the time and effort to do what I do because I had too much of my life invested in learning what I know and did not want to walk away from that part of me that gave my life so much meaning and reward. I love building things. When I got my finger cut of and reattached while convalescing I cut out the floor pan and firewall of my 72 ranchero gt and welded in a new one as well as replacing sections of the doors and inner/outer rear wheel wells.

this is a pic of the finished wheels

 

[+Sherapy]

22 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

Admittedly I am stubborn so when I was disabled I would walk the rails of the tracks for 21/2-3 miles from my place to my brothers just to regain my sense of balance because of the types of work that I did. I spent the time and effort to do what I do because I had too much of my life invested in learning what I know and did not want to walk away from that part of me that gave my life so much meaning and reward. I love building things. When I got my finger cut of and reattached while convalescing I cut out the floor pan and firewall of my 72 ranchero gt and welded in a new one as well as replacing sections of the doors and inner/outer rear wheel wells.

this is a pic of the finished wheels

 

Nice truck.

Did you have an accident?

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Nice truck.

Did you have an accident?

 Hi Sherapy

Yes many in my life but that time i got my glove caught in the belt of a drill press and had to grab the pully and pull back to get my finger out and when I pulled my glove off my rest of my finger didn't come out right away without some coaxing

jmccr8

PS

it's a cruck, car/truck and everything in it is Lincoln it is not stock by any means

jmccr8

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

K

22 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

 Hi Sherapy

Yes many in my life but that time i got my glove caught in the belt of a drill press and had to grab the pully and pull back to get my finger out and when I pulled my glove off my rest of my finger didn't come out right away without some coaxing

jmccr8

PS

it's a cruck, car/truck and everything in it is Lincoln it is not stock by any means

jmccr8

 

Did you lose your finger?
 

I have never heard of a cruck, lol.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

K

Did you lose your finger?
 

I have never heard of a cruck, lol.

 Hi Sherapy

 No They sewed it back on but had a pin in it for a couple of months and it felt like it was on fire most of the time.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

The most popular models of "Crucks", built from the ground up, were Ford's Rancheros and Chevy's El Caminos.

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The most popular models of "Crucks", built from the ground up, were Ford's Rancheros and Chevy's El Caminos.

Hi Hammer

I stuck a 76 Gran Prix into a 76 El Camino everything from the drive train to the interior, the door panels were the hard part.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

I stuck a 76 Gran Prix into a 76 El Camino everything from the drive train to the interior, the door panels were the hard part.

jmccr8

I was fond of station wagons. My favorite was '74 chevy caprice wagon with a 454, 4 barrel under the hood. Loved to let them hosses run!

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I was fond of station wagons. My favorite was '74 chevy caprice wagon with a 454, 4 barrel under the hood. Loved to let them hosses run!

Hi Hammer

I liked the 2 door chevelle wagon and the vista cruiser and not to forget the 58 ford 2 door delivery they were sweet rides.

 I did do a custom on a 67 chevy van using a vista cruiser roof

jmccr8

Edited March 2, 2021 by jmccr8

[jethrofloyd]

 

[Crazy Horse]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:13 PM, docyabut2 said:

I `m a skeptical of What is God ? a supreme being?

what supreme being created this horrible place on earth ?

to come into this world in pain and cause another into pain to enter

then have to kill and consume life  to survive, in pains and sufferings 

pains of decaying our bodies and dying

what is god ?

To create a new life, or even a new world, there are birthing pains, its just the way it is, yet I can see how this might help create a bond, a loving attachment and an appreciation.

And one doesn't have to kill and consume life in order to survive. although, who's to say that you and I wasn't a chicken, a pig, a cow at some point in the past? Because this is the problem, we are trying to judge something, which in IT's entirety, is unknowable. Or maybe it is knowable...?

Perhaps meat, like lust and power are put there in front of us, so we have something to turn away from...Who knows?

And yes, the body shall decay, but it doesn't have to be painful. Many folks even today, live a productive life in one way or another, right up until the end. perhaps a short illness and then off to the next adventure. This by the way, I would suggest is entirely down to ones own decisions and life style.

What is GOD?

In the very broadest sense I would say. Living, Intelligent, Mind, and Pure Consciousness.

Which may be known for oneself.

[+Sherapy]

10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

 Hi Sherapy

 No They sewed it back on but had a pin in it for a couple of months and it felt like it was on fire most of the time.

jmccr8

Good to hear.