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docyabut2

What is God ?

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White-Coyote
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

A certain person in my family is trying to get me saved by believing in the blood of Jesus.  I was going to make a thread on it.  Here’s the problem.  The “blood of Jesus” is based on the Bible, but the Bible completely sucks.  So, that disqualifies it from the start IMo.  Study out the Bible and see what you find.  You find the same thing as if you had never heard a thing about God, nothing.  
 

You think loving God, maker of all things would hold you accountable for someone else’s sins?  Or the blood of a goat can pardon you from your faults?

it is fricken crazy.  It’s left over fear of angry god from cave men.

You should start a thread, I was thinking something along those lines about the old testament seaming weird in places, and it definitely does, but I don't know. 

Personally I believe in a God though, but I'm not arrogant enough to begin to think I understand it

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Guyver
6 minutes ago, White-Coyote said:

You should start a thread, I was thinking something along those lines about the old testament seaming weird in places, and it definitely does, but I don't know. 

Personally I believe in a God though, but I'm not arrogant enough to begin to think I understand it

Thank you for saying it.

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Guyver

I don’t think I’ll do it just out of respect for other people’s beliefs.  If they are not smart enough to examine what they believe, eff it.  Let them live their lives out and die like the rest of us.

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Guyver

God is loving, but he is just.  That’s what Christians say and they don’t even know what just means.  It doesn’t mean someone who will light you on fire for eternity for being a sinner, being just means doing right.  Think about it.  Only a psychopath would resurrect you from the dead just to torture you for eternity.  A loving God would demolecularize you instantly if you needed killing, in this man’s world, FWIW.

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Guyver

God cannot be simultaneously loving, and want to set you on fire.  Sorry.  It doesn’t logically compute.  Bad story.  Come up with a new God that educated people can believe in.

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

you want to know the sufferings of your love ones :(

I cant comment on this, without someone saying I am cold hearted .

Personally, when i have lost loved ones, I've celebrated their life with those who live on,   and been helped by   my love and respect for them 

When I die, the best  I  can hope for is that others will do the same for me.

 I understand a bit what you mean.

When there was a possibility of my death, my greatest concern was for my wife, and how she would manage without me. 

 

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Will Do
21 minutes ago, Guyver said:

God cannot be simultaneously loving, and want to set you on fire.  Sorry.  It doesn’t logically compute.  Bad story.  Come up with a new God that educated people can believe in.

 

Nevermind. 

I removed a link.

I think you'll eventually figure it out Guyver. Somehow you don't come across as somebody who gives up.

 

 

Edited by Will Do

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Without suffering how could you ever of learnt anything?  If you never had suffering and stayed in a positive vibration, how could you ever evolve and learn?    These times of a duality are amazing and are allowed to happen so we can experience negative energy, so when we eventually start to understand ourselves, the journey back to onceness is going to be divine.

I am not so sure of this.

I haven't   suffered much, if any, in my life, and yet I have experienced and learned a lot, and grown throughout my life.

I choose not to believe that suffering is inevitable, or beneficial in any way.

Humans can live with out suffering, if not without pain and loss.   

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Some people are slow learners and they need hearing it said again just for emphasis.  No one knows Jack diddley about God.

Except those who live with one .They can learn a little :)  

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White-Coyote
12 minutes ago, Guyver said:

God is loving, but he is just.  That’s what Christians say and they don’t even know what just means.  It doesn’t mean someone who will light you on fire for eternity for being a sinner, being just means doing right.  Think about it.  Only a psychopath would resurrect you from the dead just to torture you for eternity.  A loving God would demolecularize you instantly if you needed killing, in this man’s world, FWIW.

I used to try to talk about my beliefs occasionally but I don't much anymore.

I don't think God would do that. A good friend of mine said that God wouldn't want anyone to be lost in hell or hel or whatever forever, and if he's God he can have whatever the hell he wants.

I look at the Bible and I wonder how much of it was God and how much of it was man trying to control man. 

This is just me, and for each their own, but if it says you can only come into the kingdom as a child.... children don't f#ckin read, they listen...so I talk to my God and sometimes I think he answers, not like a big booming voice or anything, just sometimes maybe with a thought at the right time...

But I'm not trying to advise anyone, im just putting stuff rolling around in my head down I suppose. And I'm no better than anyone reading this either, 

Just sharing my own experiences, and nothing but.

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

God is all loving.  But, if you’re not saved, he will resurrect you from the dead so you can spend the rest of eternity burning in the flames of hell.  What a bunch of BS.  But people have embraced it.  Love doesn’t set people on fire for eternity.

True; and that is not biblical Christianity.

It is a theology developed over time by the catholic church  and inherited even by some protestant churches.   

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Logic and reason, plus history and science don’t mean a thing to people who believe the Bible.  They just believe it because they do, or society does, or their parents did.

True for literal believers, but you can believe in the spiritual messages of the bible, without believing it's literal truth. The spiritual messages don't contradict history or science, and are common to many secular philosophical values and beliefs. 

To take just one 

The bible says a married couple should be partners and "equally yoked".

That means they pull  together in tandem,  not in opposition to each other.

  The y work in harmony, and they don't have such different values or beliefs that they can't form a productive, powerful partnership, together .

  It means that both must be of approx. equal strength  

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

A certain person in my family is trying to get me saved by believing in the blood of Jesus.  I was going to make a thread on it.  Here’s the problem.  The “blood of Jesus” is based on the Bible, but the Bible completely sucks.  So, that disqualifies it from the start IMo.  Study out the Bible and see what you find.  You find the same thing as if you had never heard a thing about God, nothing.  
 

You think loving God, maker of all things would hold you accountable for someone else’s sins?  Or the blood of a goat can pardon you from your faults?

it is fricken crazy.  It’s left over fear of angry god from cave men.

If that person believes they are saved then the belief is doing its job as a positive psychological construct.

Feel glad for him/her   I imagine that that person would disagree with how you see and interpret the bible,  which is natural and OK  for both of you 

IMO the bible says tha t all humans are already forgiven original sin by the sacrifice of Christ's blood.

(we remain accountable for our behaviours but these too can be forgiven )

It is really the same philosophy as secular humanism Ie we are accountable for our behaviours, and when we hurt people, we need to ask their forgiveness, make restitution, and try not to repeat the hurt 

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Mr Walker
57 minutes ago, Guyver said:

God is loving, but he is just.  That’s what Christians say and they don’t even know what just means.  It doesn’t mean someone who will light you on fire for eternity for being a sinner, being just means doing right.  Think about it.  Only a psychopath would resurrect you from the dead just to torture you for eternity.  A loving God would demolecularize you instantly if you needed killing, in this man’s world, FWIW.

merciful AND just 

Justice is simply ensuring that every action has a consequence. That destructive deeds are punished, and that constructive deeds are rewarded.

  It is a law of nature, and of man/society,  as well as of god, 

and again the bible says that the wages of sin are death Ie the second and final death of body and spirit.

Hell is not biblical and  it's introduction into Christian theology was evil, because it turned many away from god and presented god as an evil being 

(and I am not a believer in any of this. I just like people to understand the actual biblical theology of Christianity, compared with what the catholic church constructed over 2000 years )

The New testament was originally a message of love and hope, not of fear. (which was one reason why it gained such world wide popularity )

it offered eternal life to ALL humans,   rather  than  eternal  death.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

quoted instead of edited

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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jmccr8
3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

just want to know What is God ? a supreme being of love? of so much sufferings on the earth "(

Hi Docyabut

I have known you for years and understand that things have been difficult for you and each of us has faced our own demons, so take heart when I tell you that we do love you and you are not alone. Believing in ,loving of, trusting in a god is not the most important part of life if you have doubts is to rid yourself of the burden of appeasing gods and make peace with yourself, we know what we have done and the incidents in life are not judgements on us but rather the means of reflection. We can avoid dealing with some issues but they will always be a barrier in moving on as they are not resolved. It is about you as an individual and how you judge yourself, I know you were a loving mate and mother that saw a value in your community so judge yourself fairly and leave god out of it.

jmccr8

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Will Do
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

God cannot be simultaneously loving, and want to set you on fire.  Sorry.  It doesn’t logically compute.  Bad story.  Come up with a new God that educated people can believe in.

 

I'm curious Guyver.

Why can't you simply dismiss about God all of those things that are obviously untrue while holding fast the things that are true?

In a way, we are all obliged to take on this task of separating the "wheat from the chaff" are we not? 

 

 

Edited by Will Do
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jmccr8
2 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

Shake it up all you want. Even when you decide to be somewhere else at the end of time, you still won't be able to not be a part of what God is.

 

 

Hi Will

I do not have a problem with you believing in the UB but you preaching it in a skeptics forum is not good as you are not personally equipped to defend it adequately but if you have someone better equipped to engage then please do ask them to join us.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

I don’t think I’ll do it just out of respect for other people’s beliefs.  If they are not smart enough to examine what they believe, eff it.  Let them live their lives out and die like the rest of us.

Hi Guyver

For me the reasons people have belief systems is interesting and at no point have I tried to turn anyone against their beliefs but an interested in the drivers employed.

jmccr8

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Dreamer screamer
7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I am not so sure of this.

I haven't   suffered much, if any, in my life, and yet I have experienced and learned a lot, and grown throughout my life.

Everyone has their own path, but if you are cottonwalled from life you simply will not get to the answers that you seek.   What is it all about?   If you think life is work, dinner sleep repeat, then die, you need to think more.

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I choose not to believe that suffering is inevitable, or beneficial in any way.

It's on its way, so be prepared.

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Humans can live with out suffering, if not without pain and loss.   

Throw a rock in the air, there will always be someone who has suffered one way or another.    I remember someone told me they had to look after their families children because of an emergency.   Some woman had such an emergency because she cracked a nail and had to go and get it fixed asap.      Now we enter the levels of suffering.   We all suffer something, more than others and less than others, all depends how you view what life is about??

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Guyver
9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I am not so sure of this.

I haven't   suffered much, if any, in my life, and yet I have experienced and learned a lot, and grown throughout my life.

I choose not to believe that suffering is inevitable, or beneficial in any way.

Humans can live with out suffering, if not without pain and loss.   

Do you enjoy Chinese food?  You know, those wonderful noodles, the rice and beef or chicken flavored so nicely?  Delicious food isn’t it?  Well, you sit down and you enjoy this wonderful meal and you go about your business.  As you are going about your business, your body is burning up those calories that you have input through metabolic transfer, and guess what?  Not long after that delicious meal, you are hungry again and your body begins that struggle for survival, which never actually stopped.  That is suffering.  Forget to hydrate yourself for a day?  If you are like most people, dehydration will begin to set in and you will suffer.  Maybe some more than others, but for me the first thing that happens is I get a headache.  That is physical suffering and everyone gets it.  So, no...humans cannot live without suffering Mr. Walker.  And that is only an example of one aspect of suffering, the struggle for survival.  Now,  add to that emotional, mental,  and spiritual suffering that occurs for a myriad of reasons.  Pleasure and pain as we know them are opposite ends of the same scale, and in between is suffering all the way through but in lesser or greater amounts.  I think you pretend to not suffer in your own mind by blocking out those inputs and refusing to see that you do actually suffer to some degree, like every other person, continuously.

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Guyver
10 hours ago, White-Coyote said:

I used to try to talk about my beliefs occasionally but I don't much anymore.

I don't think God would do that. A good friend of mine said that God wouldn't want anyone to be lost in hell or hel or whatever forever, and if he's God he can have whatever the hell he wants.

I look at the Bible and I wonder how much of it was God and how much of it was man trying to control man. 

This is just me, and for each their own, but if it says you can only come into the kingdom as a child.... children don't f#ckin read, they listen...so I talk to my God and sometimes I think he answers, not like a big booming voice or anything, just sometimes maybe with a thought at the right time...

But I'm not trying to advise anyone, im just putting stuff rolling around in my head down I suppose. And I'm no better than anyone reading this either, 

Just sharing my own experiences, and nothing but.

I think you should continue to share, because you make sense, IMO.

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Sherapy
51 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Do you enjoy Chinese food?  You know, those wonderful noodles, the rice and beef or chicken flavored so nicely?  Delicious food isn’t it?  Well, you sit down and you enjoy this wonderful meal and you go about your business.  As you are going about your business, your body is burning up those calories that you have input through metabolic transfer, and guess what?  Not long after that delicious meal, you are hungry again and your body begins that struggle for survival, which never actually stopped.  That is suffering.  Forget to hydrate yourself for a day?  If you are like most people, dehydration will begin to set in and you will suffer.  Maybe some more than others, but for me the first thing that happens is I get a headache.  That is physical suffering and everyone gets it.  So, no...humans cannot live without suffering Mr. Walker.  And that is only an example of one aspect of suffering, the struggle for survival.  Now,  add to that emotional, mental,  and spiritual suffering that occurs for a myriad of reasons.  Pleasure and pain as we know them are opposite ends of the same scale, and in between is suffering all the way through but in lesser or greater amounts.  I think you pretend to not suffer in your own mind by blocking out those inputs and refusing to see that you do actually suffer to some degree, like every other person, continuously.

Empathy and resilience are as a result of suffering nurturing the capacity to understand it because one gets it because they connect to their own humanity. As you, I do not believe such tall tales and see it as one persons way to get through —not that one doesn’t suffer. Unfortunately/fortunately, something always happens in life that these flimsy walls come tumbling down. 
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Guitar

god (he/she/it) is a figment of the imagination of the believer based on fear and ignorance of the unknown.

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Hammerclaw
3 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

god (he/she/it) is a figment of the imagination of the believer based on fear and ignorance of the unknown.

Look around the room. Everything you see was conceptualized in someone's imagination before being made real. God/creator, deity is just another conceptualization, based on empirical observation and nonlinear, immaterial extrapolation. The worst ignorance one may encounter is that of human motivations desiring answers to questions without resolution.

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