XenoFish Posted March 8, 2021 #201 Share Posted March 8, 2021 40 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: The choir are very good listeners. Are we going to have a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted March 8, 2021 #202 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 5:13 PM, docyabut2 said: what is god ? We are God. In my school of thought Advaita Hindu non-dualism (God and creation are not-two), God/Brahman/Source is pure infinite consciousness. In the play/drama of the universe rays of God incarnate finite forms giving them the experience of finite consciousness. In Act I of this play God separates Itself from Itself and in Act II God returns Itself to Itself. It is a play/drama with a happy ending for all (return to Oneness). Why does God do this? Why do humans create art/play/dramas? To experience! Isn't this better than steady-state infinite sameness? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 8, 2021 #203 Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, XenoFish said: Are we going to have a problem? Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 8, 2021 #204 Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Are you? That depends on where you're wanting to take this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 8, 2021 #205 Share Posted March 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, XenoFish said: That depends on where you're wanting to take this. There is no "this" to take--it's all in your head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 8, 2021 #206 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: There is no "this" to take--it's all in your head. Sure. And now the potential and any future problems are "poof" gone. Edited March 8, 2021 by XenoFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 8, 2021 #207 Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Sure. And now the potential and any future problems are "poof" gone. Not in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oslove Posted March 9, 2021 #208 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Please bear with me, everyone longer than me here, what is this RAW used by Xeno supposed to convey? ====================== Thanks, everyone, for your contributions to this thread, I am not its author, but I am happy that someone, docyabut2, started it. Hey, docyabut2, I really love to engage in a sustained dialogue with you on what is God. Let us we two start with this statement, "There are transient things in existence, for example, we humans we are transient, i.e. we have a beginning at birth, and an ending at death," that is what I mean by us being transient beings. Transient beings are in the objective world which is outside and independent of our brain/mind. What do you say, dear docyabut2, can you accept that the existence of transient beings like you and me and all humans, implicates necessarily the existence of at least one permanent being that is self-existent, which I identify as God, thus in concept as the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending. Tell me, dear docyabut2, do you now know what is God? When you and everyone here have any difficulties with this message from me, please let me know, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 9, 2021 #209 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, oslove said: Tell me, dear docyabut2, do you now know what is God? When you and everyone here have any difficulties with this message from me, please let me know, okay? Dear Oslove Docy is a dear old lady that has had some troubling days for some time now so let us agree that you should be supportive and not add to her dismay. She reads and says what is on her mind or heart at the moment and has been a member here likely more than the decade that I have so if she wants to say something she will. I can talk with you about god but likely we will disagree on most points and fortunately for you I have a sense of humor so we can have fun too. jmccr8 Edited March 9, 2021 by jmccr8 spulling 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted March 9, 2021 #210 Share Posted March 9, 2021 It's always like this in an anonymous forum. People forget there's a real person behind the curious name and plush-toy avatar. They don't know if the person is happy or sad, at ease or in pain, grinning or crying. All they see are strings of cold words, stark black on white, and respond to the string, not the person. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted March 9, 2021 #211 Share Posted March 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: It's always like this in an anonymous forum. People forget there's a real person behind the curious name and plush-toy avatar. They don't know if the person is happy or sad, at ease or in pain, grinning or crying. All they see are strings of cold words, stark black on white, and respond to the string, not the person. Definitely something I've been trying to be more mindful of, this year. :-) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 9, 2021 #212 Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/8/2021 at 9:41 AM, XenoFish said: Who said you will. Just think of the good things that have happened in life. You can't end suffering no matter how hard you (and all of us) might try. Our lives are a hardship from beginning to end. However it is those tiny moments of joy that make it worth it. The good memories. Sometimes we forget them, sometimes we need to remember. I struggle to understand this pov. I've had to work hard and long, but never experienced hardship ( and we were very poor by modern standards when I was a child) Personally I think the concepts of hardship, suffering, and struggle, are just constructed perceptions, rather than physical realities, but I appreciate that I have been very lucky and rewarded for effort in life. I read my great grandfather's journals, teaching and living in rural south Australia in the 1870s, where 4 of his 8 children died from cholera in drinking water, and recognise how lucky I am, yet he saw himself as more fortunate than his forebears in Scotland. Life is fun, and hugely enjoyable, even when challenging, painful, or hard work. Indeed its often the hard work, challenge, and pain, which makes it so interesting, fun, and rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oslove Posted March 10, 2021 #213 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Dear my colleagues here, that includes everyone writing here, *let us all work as to concur on how to achieve an irrefutable way to prove that God exists or not. If you anyone here, your position is that there is no way at all to prove exist or not exist for God, and you will rather suffer martyrdom than take part to work as to concur on the way to prove God exists or not, then I suggest that you do not write anything in this thread for the time being, because we all who at least agree that it is possible, we will be talking to one another, is that okay with you guys, who will suffer martyrdom rather than even just to talk about the possibility of proving God exists or not? Or you just wait until we are finished completely, then you can voice out your pertinent comments, okay? The question is not exactly about proving or disproving that God exists. It is about both theists as atheists agreeing to work together to come to a mutually agreed on method for resolving definitively the issue God exists or not. To date there is no agreed upon by both sides on the mutually accepted and prescribed method to be followed by both sides, for the definitive final irrefutable answer, God exists or God does not exist - and both sides, theists as atheists are bound to it. If the mutually agreed on method results into the answer, No, God does not exist, then theists will no longer seek to convert fellow humans to accept God. But if the answer is Yes God exists, then atheists will no longer complain why they are not accepted by Christians: as qualified to become say, President of America. So, we who are here in the to all appearances non-partisan net forum of UM, we will really love to see: who from either side will refuse to work collaboratively among ourselves: to arrive at a mutually agreed on method to resolve the issue, God exists or not. *This message is taken with minor changes from one of mine in another net forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 10, 2021 #214 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, oslove said: *This message is taken with minor changes from one of mine in another net forum. Hi Oslove Hope you get some bites that you like, so far two of us have expressed an interest in discussing your position on god and alas you have found no favor in our intent. jmccr8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted March 10, 2021 #215 Share Posted March 10, 2021 31 minutes ago, oslove said: Dear my colleagues here, that includes everyone writing here, *let us all work as to concur on how to achieve an irrefutable way to prove that God exists or not. If you anyone here, your position is that there is no way at all to prove exist or not exist for God, and you will rather suffer martyrdom than take part to work as to concur on the way to prove God exists or not, then I suggest that you do not write anything in this thread for the time being, because we all who at least agree that it is possible, we will be talking to one another, is that okay with you guys, who will suffer martyrdom rather than even just to talk about the possibility of proving God exists or not? Or you just wait until we are finished completely, then you can voice out your pertinent comments, okay? The question is not exactly about proving or disproving that God exists. It is about both theists as atheists agreeing to work together to come to a mutually agreed on method for resolving definitively the issue God exists or not. To date there is no agreed upon by both sides on the mutually accepted and prescribed method to be followed by both sides, for the definitive final irrefutable answer, God exists or God does not exist - and both sides, theists as atheists are bound to it. If the mutually agreed on method results into the answer, No, God does not exist, then theists will no longer seek to convert fellow humans to accept God. But if the answer is Yes God exists, then atheists will no longer complain why they are not accepted by Christians: as qualified to become say, President of America. So, we who are here in the to all appearances non-partisan net forum of UM, we will really love to see: who from either side will refuse to work collaboratively among ourselves: to arrive at a mutually agreed on method to resolve the issue, God exists or not. *This message is taken with minor changes from one of mine in another net forum. Okay then. I tell you what. Just before you go to bed tonight pray for God to reveal himself, perhaps to Oprah, that way in the following interview that will happen we can be sure God exists. I will do the same. If God appears to Oprah, Case closed if, say after 7 days God hasn’t appeared we can agree god isn’t real and move on. I will not accept any pictures of Oprah meeting with Morgan Freeman as proof of God. Deal? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oslove Posted March 10, 2021 #216 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Well, I guess I have to continue by myself, and hope that some colleagues here will join me on my present project, namely, the mutual undertaking to formulate a communally concurred on method for resolving, i.e. proving God exists or not. =================================================== Can man prove God exists or not? That is the first issue we have to settle together, before we start working together to arrive at a communally agreed on method for proving or disproving God exists or not. To work on the settlement of that question above, we have got to first again work as to come to concur on the concepts of existence, God, and proof. Why? Simple, because without concurrence on definition of terms, we will be each one talking past the head of everyone's else, and that is not communication, but an irrational happening. Here are my concepts* of existence, God, and proof: Existence in concept is anything at all that we experience directly with our senses and consciousness, and/or indirectly by our honest intelligent productive thinking on what it is from what we know with our senses and consciousness. God in concept is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending. Proof is the process by which we humans ascertain the existence of something directly by our conscious experience of the object of concern, and/or indirectly by reasoning from the data of our conscious experience. So, please everyone, tender your concepts of existence, God, and proof, if you don't care to present your concepts of the three words, then it is obvious you don't care to collaborate in the resolution of the issue, Can man prove God exists or not. There are two issues here: 1. To agree that man can prove God exists or not. 2. To formulate the method for resolving i.e. proving God exists or not. I have contributed to num 1, and I hope that others will join me in this present project of mine here in UM forum. . *From my writings in another net forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted March 10, 2021 #217 Share Posted March 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, oslove said: Well, I guess I have to continue by myself, and hope that some colleagues here will join me on my present project, namely, the mutual undertaking to formulate a communally concurred on method for resolving, i.e. proving God exists or not. Putting aside the obvious futility of proving the existence of God, why are you ignoring people that obviously want to engage with you on your quest for the holy grail? Not very Christian of you PS I’ll be praying for god to appear to Oprah in about an hours time, don’t forget 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signs_of_the_times Posted March 10, 2021 #218 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) On 2/26/2021 at 5:13 PM, docyabut2 said: I `m a skeptical of What is God ? a supreme being? what supreme being created this horrible place on earth ? to come into this world in pain and cause another into pain to enter then have to kill and consume life to survive, in pains and sufferings pains of decaying our bodies and dying what is god ? Have you tried communicating with God directly ? (Prayer). Sometimes the God debate looks like everyone trying to find out what's inside of a box so we are shaking the box, knocking on it, weighing it, measuring it, and coming up with complex models of what could be inside. But no one tries to simply open it. Prayer is the way we bypass all of that and go straight to the source. Put God to the test! Maybe you do pray but keep in mind you may not get the answer you want or how you want it or in the timing you want it. Edited March 10, 2021 by signs_of_the_times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted March 10, 2021 #219 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, signs_of_the_times said: Prayer is the way we bypass all of that and go straight to the source. Put God to the test! Maybe you do pray but keep in mind you may not get the answer you want or how you want it or in the timing you want it. So basically just ask god for something and expect an outcome that is no different than an outcome from chance. Why don't you pray to a rock? At least you can see it and prove it exists. Edited March 10, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 11, 2021 #220 Share Posted March 11, 2021 9 hours ago, oslove said: Well, I guess I have to continue by myself, and hope that some colleagues here will join me on my present project, namely, the mutual undertaking to formulate a communally concurred on method for resolving, i.e. proving God exists or not. =================================================== Can man prove God exists or not? That is the first issue we have to settle together, before we start working together to arrive at a communally agreed on method for proving or disproving God exists or not. To work on the settlement of that question above, we have got to first again work as to come to concur on the concepts of existence, God, and proof. Why? Simple, because without concurrence on definition of terms, we will be each one talking past the head of everyone's else, and that is not communication, but an irrational happening. Here are my concepts* of existence, God, and proof: Existence in concept is anything at all that we experience directly with our senses and consciousness, and/or indirectly by our honest intelligent productive thinking on what it is from what we know with our senses and consciousness. God in concept is the permanent self-existent cause of man and the universe and everything transient, i.e. with a beginning and an ending. Proof is the process by which we humans ascertain the existence of something directly by our conscious experience of the object of concern, and/or indirectly by reasoning from the data of our conscious experience. So, please everyone, tender your concepts of existence, God, and proof, if you don't care to present your concepts of the three words, then it is obvious you don't care to collaborate in the resolution of the issue, Can man prove God exists or not. There are two issues here: 1. To agree that man can prove God exists or not. 2. To formulate the method for resolving i.e. proving God exists or not. I have contributed to num 1, and I hope that others will join me in this present project of mine here in UM forum. . *From my writings in another net forum. If god is real/physical then, certainly, we can prove it's existence. The method of proof is very simple. You use the same evidences to prove the existence of God as you do for a dog. Thus any human who encounters a real god can prove its reality to themselves, in the same way they prove that a dog they encounter is real However no one can prove that the god they encounter exists, to another person without any experience of that god. Ie transferrable evidences of real, physical, experiences are almost impossible to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted March 11, 2021 #221 Share Posted March 11, 2021 13 hours ago, signs_of_the_times said: Sometimes the God debate looks like everyone trying to find out what's inside of a box so we are shaking the box, knocking on it, weighing it, measuring it, and coming up with complex models of what could be inside. But no one tries to simply open it. I think almost everyone opens it at some point, it's just that many people note that the box is empty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 11, 2021 #222 Share Posted March 11, 2021 27 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: I think almost everyone opens it at some point, it's just that many people note that the box is empty. That's why he said: "I pray that you may discern the meaning of my teachings with the eyes of the spirit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted March 11, 2021 #223 Share Posted March 11, 2021 42 minutes ago, Will Do said: That's why he said: "I pray that you may discern the meaning of my teachings with the eyes of the spirit." Too bad 'eyes of the spirit' is equally as empty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted March 11, 2021 #224 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, signs_of_the_times said: Have you tried communicating with God directly ? (Prayer). Which god should I pray to ? Quote Sometimes the God debate looks like everyone trying to find out what's inside of a box so we are shaking the box, knocking on it, weighing it, measuring it, and coming up with complex models of what could be inside. But no one tries to simply open it. Maybe we have tried to open it and found nothing in it ? What makes you think that you know the first thing about what people have done to try finding god ? Quote Prayer is the way we bypass all of that and go straight to the source. Put God to the test!Maybe you do pray but keep in mind you may not get the answer you want or how you want it or in the timing you want it. If that is the case, isn't praying essentially useless ? Gods going to do what he wants anyway. Edited March 11, 2021 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 11, 2021 #225 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: Which god should I pray to ? Our Lord Cthulhu. The outer gods are the bestest gods. Edited March 11, 2021 by XenoFish 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts