To Love the Lord thy GOD....

[Stiff]

10 minutes ago, Will Do said:

But the New Commandment is to love one another as God loves you. Like a good father loves his children. 

It's an interesting oversight of one of the main things Jesus taught I believe. Because if it were to be taken seriously and implemented by everyone, it would effectively eliminate every conflict that exists between people.

Well that didn't work out too well for Elisabeth Fritzl did it?

[zep73]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Unfortunately, I cannot take credit for inventing GOD..

I am good, but not THAT good.

You're cherry picking the biblical god, and thereby inventing your own.

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes...

But I want to say, that this Love for GOD is so beautiful. For one, GOD is Everything and therefore it covers, er, everything, which if you think about it is quite handy!

But also, invoking GOD has it own affects upon the soul too. Those Divine Attributes of GOD, rub-off upon the individual.

This is why I see it as the ultimate practice.

Although how one may actually Love GOD, the break-down of that, is another thread altogether..

I understand this completely.

However the  understanding is experiential.

That is, you  have to experience it to know and understand it.  (which is true for love itself) 

Many people NEVER have this experience and thus never develop a knowledge or understanding of this reality. 

It would be nice to help others to achieve it, but I have come to believe that all one can do is tell them of it and its accessibility.

Then let them seek it for themselves, or not. 

It is terribly sad to see some people live unhappy or incomplete lives, often in pain, or suffering unnecessarily,  but ultimately, how we live our lives is, and must be, our own choice.

Sometimes "pressuring"  people just hardens their resistance.  

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I said, those filled with the Love of GOD...

Which god ?

How do you know if someone else is filled with the love of god ?

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, Guyver said:

The 10 Commandments aren’t savage, it’s the other 603 associated Levitical laws that deal with killing, raping, and brutalizing people.

However, the God you are invoking is jealous and given to anger and rage, as the same source text that gave you the 10 commandments contains the record of these things.

God is often how a human interprets it to be. 

A lot of the old testament blokes were misogynist, tribal,  and fearful.

Their environment shaped them, and thus how they interpreted their god

On the other hand, a lot of their laws were common-sense and helped survival in their time.

Without medical and scientific knowledge,  social laws were based on observation of the effects of different practices  (from dietary through to sexual)   Some are still good practice today   Others are redundant or counter productive, in a greatly different society.

  Eg women are no longer dependent on males for protection and support, and thus are no longer seen as the "property" of a male (They still are in some Islamic countries, where the state laws have remained locked to ancient religious ones )

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Wait a minute. Which is it Crazy Horse? Are you going to love god fully with everything you've got (might as well become a monk) or surrender to god.....? There must be some kind of mental defect involved in all this. 

Love is not dependent on environment 

There isn't a limited supply of it in any of us.

   It doesn't mean giving up other things,  or the love  of /for other things/people, just adding (more of)  the ingredient of love to the life you live. 

It is interesting that  you see "too much" love as unnatural, or an aberration, rather than a thing to be desired. 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I find you to be a very weak person honestly. You appear to have this childish need. A wanting to be special. A unique little spiritual snowflake. I'd think it is a desire to be passive in life rather than active while living in a fantasy reality where you are your gods favorite. I think it shows a lack of love in your life. 

That is your opinion based on your own world view.

Some have called crazy horse judgemental but this is very judgemental

You two are simply different.

It makes neither of you right or wrong, stronger or weaker, better or worse.

  If you are happy, content, fulfilled,  unafraid, loved and respected,  empowered,  etc in your life, then you don't need anyone's advice or help.  

Every human being is special, unique, and significant.

Only our deeds make us  different,  and separate us .

ie some humans do more, achieve more, help others more, and make a greeter difference to the world than others do.

  That includes everyone from  artists musicians and hairdressers to architects teachers  and scientists   It includes parents, and even children.   

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Will Do said:

 

Yes loving one another as yourself is how brothers love one another.

But the New Commandment is to love one another as God loves you. Like a good father loves his children. 

It's an interesting oversight of one of the main things Jesus taught I believe. Because if it were to be taken seriously and implemented by everyone, it would effectively eliminate every conflict that exists between people.

 

 

 I  Like this, but the practical problem is that many people have poor relationships with their parents and authority   figures .

if your parents never loved you, and you never learned to love, by parental example, it makes it hard to love yourself OR to love anyone, or anything, else. 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Stiff said:

Well that didn't work out too well for Elisabeth Fritzl did it?

Pretty extreme example of my last post 

it took a lot of therapy for her and the children to overcome the trauma, but she seems to have found love, and  a life which is content, and perhaps happy.

Interestingly, her love is 23 years younger than her.

Perhaps coincidence, perhaps significant psychologically, given her abuse by an older man   (her father) 

  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/josef-fritzls-daughters-secret-new-14141500

Edited February 28, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, zep73 said:

You're cherry picking the biblical god, and thereby inventing your own.

The biblical god was a construct of many individual people (mostly men) There is no one perspective on the god described within it.

  Indeed different books/writers often present contradictory descriptions  of god 

Thus its allowable, and even logical, for any individual to perceive god through their own mind 

ps critics of the bible also "cherry pick" their observations and arguments.  They are doing just what believers are doing

ie Applying their own understandings and world views to the book.

Every human being has their "own" god, in their own mind,   even those who then choose to disbelieve that god is real.

  

[Guyver]

4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

The GOD I am invoking isn't jealous, angry etc, the GOD I am invoking is LOVE, pure and simple.

You must be thinking of something else.

Crazy Horse, I literally quoted you the passages from the Bible that says the same God who gave the Ten Commandments is jealous and angry.  So, you do pick and choose what to believe in as you see fit.  I’m not insulting you, I am just stating the facts as they are plainly written for anyone to confirm.

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

God is often how a human interprets it to be. 

A lot of the old testament blokes were misogynist, tribal,  and fearful.

Their environment shaped them, and thus how they interpreted their god

On the other hand, a lot of their laws were common-sense and helped survival in their time.

Without medical and scientific knowledge,  social laws were based on observation of the effects of different practices  (from dietary through to sexual)   Some are still good practice today   Others are redundant or counter productive, in a greatly different society.

  Eg women are no longer dependent on males for protection and support, and thus are no longer seen as the "property" of a male (They still are in some Islamic countries, where the state laws have remained locked to ancient religious ones )

Look, Mr. Walker, you can attempt to spin it anyway you want....but here’s the fact.  Right is right and wrong is wrong.  So, people who want to believe in the Bible God should at least be honest about the source from which they base their faith.  The same Bible that gave you Jesus and claims God is love, also claim that God is jealous and angry and sometimes engages in killing people.  Additionally, He was responsible for the laws about keeping slaves, owning women, exacting eye for an eye revenge etc, as Moses himself claims that God told him these laws and had him write them down.

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Guyver said:

Look, Mr. Walker, you can attempt to spin it anyway you want....but here’s the fact.  Right is right and wrong is wrong.  So, people who want to believe in the Bible God should at least be honest about the source from which they base their faith.  The same Bible that gave you Jesus and claims God is love, also claim that God is jealous and angry and sometimes engages in killing people.  Additionally, He was responsible for the laws about keeping slaves, owning women, exacting eye for an eye revenge etc, as Moses himself claims that God told him these laws and had him write them down.

To me it is not spin It is understanding how were and why  the r bible was written and by whom.

It is realising it is  not a literal truth and That it must be adapted to changing social and other conditions 

A modern person can live completely by the bible IF the y understand and interpret it in a way which allows them to do so.

But of course the bible and Christianity is only one of many  paths to god and connection to it.

  I was raised atheist/ secular humanist and so never had that rebellion against parental beliefs and authority 

ive got good friends and relatives who live completely by the bible as modern citizens,  and are good, honest, decent people.

Ive got good friends and relatives who are atheists,  and who   live by their own moral codes, and are good, honest, decent people.  

The laws about owning slaves and women were a product of the times.

  However, the biblical laws actually IMPROVED the lot of slaves and women over their conditions in other societies, and gave them protections not afforded in other societies of the time.  

Ie those laws were a representation of love as it was possible in those times  

Today you can be a  completely biblical christian, without owning slaves, and without seeing women as anything less than equal human beings 

Moses interpreted god's words,  as all humans who hear the words of a god interpret them.

  The 10 commandments were (according to the story) written by god, and they remain good laws to live by even today  (you can live  a good life  without  them, but hey remain good principles to live by ) 

The other laws were written by men under the assumed authority they claimed from  god and were about protecting and strengthening individuals and their society/nation

Sometimes we can love another person, but have to kill them.

We can love all humans, but still have to kill some of them on occasion,   because THEY may not be good, loving,  human beings, and  may intend to hurt or kill others.

  The  full commandment is  " Though shalt not kill unlawfully",  allowing for judicial, legal, or moral, killing of people. 

 

ps right and wrong are not moral absolutes.

The y are conditional constructs of human beings 

 What  is good/bad in one society, maybe completely reversed 2000 years later in a different society.

  Our moralities may be completely reversed in another 2000 years time.  (The y will certainly be very different  from  our own/present values.  

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Crazy Horse]

10 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

Yes loving one another as yourself is how brothers love one another.

But the New Commandment is to love one another as God loves you. Like a good father loves his children. 

It's an interesting oversight of one of the main things Jesus taught I believe. Because if it were to be taken seriously and implemented by everyone, it would effectively eliminate every conflict that exists between people.

 

 

Yes, I like THAT..

But lets not over-look the "Love thy neighbour as thy self" aspect

But yes, GODS Love is Immense and without end, 

A great psychological place to put ones-self

[Crazy Horse]

9 hours ago, zep73 said:

You're cherry picking the biblical god, and thereby inventing your own.

No, Im not, and I wish you wouldn't tell me what I am thinking.

 

[Crazy Horse]

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I understand this completely.

However the  understanding is experiential.

That is, you  have to experience it to know and understand it.  (which is true for love itself) 

Many people NEVER have this experience and thus never develop a knowledge or understanding of this reality. 

It would be nice to help others to achieve it, but I have come to believe that all one can do is tell them of it and its accessibility.

Then let them seek it for themselves, or not. 

It is terribly sad to see some people live unhappy or incomplete lives, often in pain, or suffering unnecessarily,  but ultimately, how we live our lives is, and must be, our own choice.

Sometimes "pressuring"  people just hardens their resistance.  

Yes it is experiential, but first, one must recognise that such a CONSCIOUSNESS exists, or at least recognise that such a LOVE possibly exists.

At which point, one may reach-out to GOD, by their own free will, and......know THAT for themselves.

And I agree about the "pressuring people". This is why I never talk about this stuff outside this forum. unless someone brings up the subject, which does happen very rarely.

[Crazy Horse]

7 hours ago, Guyver said:

Crazy Horse, I literally quoted you the passages from the Bible that says the same God who gave the Ten Commandments is jealous and angry.  So, you do pick and choose what to believe in as you see fit.  I’m not insulting you, I am just stating the facts as they are plainly written for anyone to confirm.

Yes, you quoted a passage from the OT.

I literally quoted Christ.

The OP has nothing to do with the OT, so it is you who is picking and choosing and inserting things that don't belong on this thread.

Let me be clear. The god of the OT, is not the same GOD of Christ, this is why he was tortured and murdered. you don't do that to a "Holy Man" over a minor difference of opinion.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

29 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, Im not, and I wish you wouldn't tell me what I am thinking.

 

You are such a hypocrite, you tell other people what they are thinking all the time.

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You are such a hypocrite, you tell other people what they are thinking all the time.

Then show me a handful times I have been telling someone what they are thinking? Or, is it you who is the hypocrite?

I point out with reason, logic, and common sense where a particular belief shall eventually take them, but that is something completely different.

You are free to debate my reasoning.

Give it a go, you might say something useful. 

 

[+ouija ouija]

33 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, you quoted a passage from the OT.

I literally quoted Christ.

The OP has nothing to do with the OT, so it is you who is picking and choosing and inserting things that don't belong on this thread.

Let me be clear. The god of the OT, is not the same GOD of Christ, this is why he was tortured and murdered. you don't do that to a "Holy Man" over a minor difference of opinion.

No, you didn't literally quote Christ because you weren't there when he spoke those words . . . . . if he spoke them at all. Who knows who put those words into his mouth; who knows how his words have been altered over time during each new translation/interpretation. Who knows, for sure, if he existed at all?

[Crazy Horse]

12 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

Yes loving one another as yourself is how brothers love one another.

But the New Commandment is to love one another as God loves you. Like a good father loves his children. 

It's an interesting oversight of one of the main things Jesus taught I believe. Because if it were to be taken seriously and implemented by everyone, it would effectively eliminate every conflict that exists between people.

 

 

I just wanted to add something, Will, that I think is important..

So, to love one another, as GOD loves you, is a fantastic perspective, but, I see, "To Love the LORD thy GOD..." as being a higher "commandment".

Because, once filled with this LOVE, one shall love "everything" - other folk, other animals, the Earth etc, etc.

And if we think about this reasonable, then, for one to actually love another, like GOD Loves you, then one must actually have this Love of GOD to begin with, within.

And so, Christs teaching to me at least, is still the greatest, highest teaching.

[Crazy Horse]

55 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

No, you didn't literally quote Christ because you weren't there when he spoke those words . . . . . if he spoke them at all. Who knows who put those words into his mouth; who knows how his words have been altered over time during each new translation/interpretation. Who knows, for sure, if he existed at all?

I literally quoted the words that have been attributed to Christ.

Not the words that Guyver literally quoted out of the OT.

Happy now?

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Then show me a handful times I have been telling someone what they are thinking? Or, is it you who is the hypocrite?

I point out with reason, logic, and common sense where a particular belief shall eventually take them, but that is something completely different.

You are free to debate my reasoning.

Give it a go, you might say something useful. 

 

At about the same time you said that you never tells people what they think, you posted this:

Here you are telling @onlookerofmayhem what he believes:

This atheistic belief which doesn't believe in GOD, must therefore see life as accidental, and ultimately meaningless. Sure you may have certain materialistic goals, but nothing of the spiritual nature. nothing beyond this life. It is limiting and hopeless because it is built upon chance, luck, and happenstance.

[Crazy Horse]

3 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

At about the same time you said that you never tells people what they think, you posted this:

Here you are telling @onlookerofmayhem what he believes:

This atheistic belief which doesn't believe in GOD, must therefore see life as accidental, and ultimately meaningless. Sure you may have certain materialistic goals, but nothing of the spiritual nature. nothing beyond this life. It is limiting and hopeless because it is built upon chance, luck, and happenstance.

"This atheistic belief..."

Please, try to see the difference between talking about a belief, and talking about an individual person.

[XenoFish]

I'm bored. Here's a link.

https://blog.biblesforamerica.org/love-god-with-all-your-heart/