COVID19 misinformation Vaccine for fake news

[Scholar4Truth]

https://vaxopedia.org/2020/12/07/are-covid-19-vaccine-manufacturers-exempt-from-liability/ Here is the issue on Vaccines and liability.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Scholar4Truth

[Silver]

10 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Your post is misinformation. "Having a minuscule amount of inert cell material" I.e the virus, is how all vaccines have previously worked. This one however:

Can you at least admit that this vaccine is the first of it's kind in that it doesnt introduce the virus to your body, but manipulates the RNA so that you have an immune response to Covid?

 

Edit.  I've had all my vaccinations and I dont care if you are vaccinated or not. Not anti vax, not trying to stop people getting vaccinated.  

The first post by you I read (on a thread about conspiracies) showed that you did not know what the word 'conspiracy meant'.

Now you are flaunting more ignorance. Please think before you post. I don't think you mean harm. Look stuff up or something.

Edit: I've looked it up myself: mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology | Nature Reviews Drug Discovery

This I think is the most relevant bit:

All enzymes and reaction components required for the GMP production of mRNA can be obtained from commercial suppliers as synthesized chemicals or bacterially expressed, animal component-free reagents, thereby avoiding safety concerns surrounding the adventitious agents that plague cell-culture-based vaccine manufacture. All the components, such as plasmid DNA, phage polymerases, capping enzymes and NTPs, are readily available as GMP-grade traceable components; however, some of these are currently available at only limited scale or high cost. As mRNA therapeutics move towards commercialization and the scale of production increases, more economical options may become accessible for GMP source materials.

GMP production of mRNA begins with DNA template production followed by enzymatic IVT and follows the same multistep protocol that is used for research scale synthesis, with added controls to ensure the safety and potency of the product16. Depending on the specific mRNA construct and chemistry, the protocol may be modified slightly from what is described here to accommodate modified nucleosides, capping strategies or template removal. To initiate the production process, template plasmid DNA produced in Escherichia coli is linearized using a restriction enzyme to allow synthesis of runoff transcripts with a poly(A) tract at the 3′ end. Next, the mRNA is synthesized from NTPs by a DNA-dependent RNA polymerase from bacteriophage (such as T7, SP6, or T3). The template DNA is then degraded by incubation with DNase. Finally, the mRNA is enzymatically or chemically capped to enable efficient translation in vivo. mRNA synthesis is highly productive, yielding in excess of 2 g l−1 of full-length mRNA in multi-gram scale reactions under optimized conditions

Edited March 9, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

6 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Do you want a lesson, or are you disputing what i have said?

 

This is the first vaccine to use a mRNA instead of a live or inert strain of a virus

Oh, I get where you are coming from now: you want to appear an expert on diverse topics. Well, you are no more a chemist than anyone else who has responded to you, I am not a chemist either but I stand by what I said, vaccines work by provoking an immune response to a virus, by mimicking the virus. Modern ones are inert and may be synthetic.

Edit: this is probably what you are referring to, and yes, if you are in a position to give us a lesson, go ahead:

All enzymes and reaction components required for the GMP production of mRNA can be obtained from commercial suppliers as synthesized chemicals or bacterially expressed, animal component-free reagents, thereby avoiding safety concerns surrounding the adventitious agents that plague cell-culture-based vaccine manufacture. All the components, such as plasmid DNA, phage polymerases, capping enzymes and NTPs, are readily available as GMP-grade traceable components; however, some of these are currently available at only limited scale or high cost. As mRNA therapeutics move towards commercialization and the scale of production increases, more economical options may become accessible for GMP source materials.

GMP production of mRNA begins with DNA template production followed by enzymatic IVT and follows the same multistep protocol that is used for research scale synthesis, with added controls to ensure the safety and potency of the product16. Depending on the specific mRNA construct and chemistry, the protocol may be modified slightly from what is described here to accommodate modified nucleosides, capping strategies or template removal. To initiate the production process, template plasmid DNA produced in Escherichia coli is linearized using a restriction enzyme to allow synthesis of runoff transcripts with a poly(A) tract at the 3′ end. Next, the mRNA is synthesized from NTPs by a DNA-dependent RNA polymerase from bacteriophage (such as T7, SP6, or T3). The template DNA is then degraded by incubation with DNase. Finally, the mRNA is enzymatically or chemically capped to enable efficient translation in vivo. mRNA synthesis is highly productive, yielding in excess of 2 g l−1 of full-length mRNA in multi-gram scale reactions under optimized conditions. mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology | Nature Reviews Drug Discovery

Edited March 9, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:05 AM, and then said:

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I also have no desire to get this jab ASAP.  A few reasons... first, pharma companies were given total immunity (no pun intended) from any liability for harm in those who receive this vaccine.  Second, despite rhetoric to the contrary, this vaccine was RUSHED to market in a period of time that was years faster than typical FDA approved medicines.  Anyone who says they KNOW there will be no long-term adverse effects, is lying.  Finally, while very few people are having serious side effects, enough of them are that weighing the odds of acquiring and surviving the C-19 naturally is worth the risk for many people. 

Above ALL other concerns, I refuse to allow government to demand I inject something into my body against my will.  No, they haven't YET made this mandatory.  Most governments are relying on fear or what passes for common sense to rush their populations into compliance.  We're well into the second year of this pandemic and global deaths are around 2 million.  Each death is a tragedy for a family but the 1918-20 Influenza killed between 50 and 100 million in 2 years.  

Treating this novel coronavirus as though it was a scourge at THAT level is not only ridiculous, it smacks of conspiracy.  I predict that "vaccine passports" will soon become the norm.  I find that acceptable UNLESS governments use the issue to control people's lives by restricting their ability to take part in the market place.

Would you accept blood or plasma if you had an accident and was bleeding out? Both plasma and blood can be synthetic...and here's the scary bit- they are produced by scientists in laboratories! And we all know scientists wear white coats and do things ordinary people don't understand!

[Silver]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:05 AM, and then said:

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I also have no desire to get this jab ASAP.  A few reasons... first, pharma companies were given total immunity (no pun intended) from any liability for harm in those who receive this vaccine.  Second, despite rhetoric to the contrary, this vaccine was RUSHED to market in a period of time that was years faster than typical FDA approved medicines.  Anyone who says they KNOW there will be no long-term adverse effects, is lying.  Finally, while very few people are having serious side effects, enough of them are that weighing the odds of acquiring and surviving the C-19 naturally is worth the risk for many people. 

Above ALL other concerns, I refuse to allow government to demand I inject something into my body against my will.  No, they haven't YET made this mandatory.  Most governments are relying on fear or what passes for common sense to rush their populations into compliance.  We're well into the second year of this pandemic and global deaths are around 2 million.  Each death is a tragedy for a family but the 1918-20 Influenza killed between 50 and 100 million in 2 years.  

Treating this novel coronavirus as though it was a scourge at THAT level is not only ridiculous, it smacks of conspiracy.  I predict that "vaccine passports" will soon become the norm.  I find that acceptable UNLESS governments use the issue to control people's lives by restricting their ability to take part in the market place.

Do you think public heath and medicine has made any advances in the last 100 years? If the answer is yes, would you consider that that has led to improved outcomes? If the answer is no, fair enough.

[Scholar4Truth]

2 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

Do you think public heath and medicine has made any advances in the last 100 years? If the answer is yes, would you consider that that has led to improved outcomes? If the answer is no, fair enough.

That's another thing, if we didn't have modern medicine fatality rates would be way higher.

[Silver]

6 minutes ago, Scholar4Truth said:

That's another thing, if we didn't have modern medicine fatality rates would be way higher.

Well that's what I'm saying. Because we understand the value of lockdown and isolation, and hygiene and can afford to basically shut down whole countries.

[Scholar4Truth]

On 2/28/2021 at 3:05 AM, and then said:

Each death is a tragedy for a family but the 1918-20 Influenza killed between 50 and 100 million in 2 years.  

 

It seems your trying to downplay it. It does not matter if its 50-100 million or even a few thousand one death is too many.  And as someone who lost two friends this insults my intelligence.

[Silver]

10 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Your post is misinformation. "Having a minuscule amount of inert cell material" I.e the virus, is how all vaccines have previously worked. This one however:

Can you at least admit that this vaccine is the first of it's kind in that it doesnt introduce the virus to your body, but manipulates the RNA so that you have an immune response to Covid?

 

Edit.  I've had all my vaccinations and I dont care if you are vaccinated or not. Not anti vax, not trying to stop people getting vaccinated.  

I didn't say "inert virus", you said that. I said "inert cell material". I didn't say the vaccine introduced the virus into the body, at all, because it doesn't.

Part of the difficulty responding to you is that so much of your posts are inaccurate both in ideas and the actual words you use, that it is difficult to grasp your meaning.

[Silver]

32 minutes ago, Scholar4Truth said:

It seems your trying to downplay it. It does not matter if its 50-100 million or even a few thousand one death is too many.  And as someone who lost two friends this insults my intelligence.

Only one number is important for anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers, and that is number 1.

[Silver]

Found this posted on another site which I think is interesting:

 

I’m a waitress. I get a lot of people who complain about wearing masks, and tell me it must be horrible for me to have to run around all day working with a mask on.

My response is, my husband was a first responder at the WTC on 9/11. Of course the attack was a complete surprise, so for the first few days they had no proper respirators or other protective equipment.

My husband now has severe lung problems, and if I catch Covid at work and pass it to him, it would almost certainly kill him.

Wearing a mask doesn’t bother me at all, but even if it did, that’s a sacrifice I’d be willing to make so that I don’t kill my husband.

From my experience, the anti-mask people also tend to be the “9/11: never forget” people, so they usually shut their stupid mouths when I explain my situation to them.

Edit: I’m not trying to claim some type of “false valor” or anything like that and pretend my husband was a cop or firefighter or one of those ~heroic~ jobs. He was a local 3 union electrician who happened to be on furlough (I think that’s what it’s called?), waiting to be called to report to a new job site. A lot of jobs in nyc have to be thru unions. So when the towers were hit, they needed a lot of electricians to put up temporary lighting so that police and firefighters could recover survivors and dead bodies from the wreckage. He was there that day and also for 9 months afterwards (the buildings were still on fire for about 3 months after as well) There were a lot more people who classify as official “first responders” besides just NYPD or paramedics like many people think. So no he wasn’t an EMT or firefighter or whatever but still, he was there at ground zero risking his life to help save others, and he is still suffering from it. Many of the people from his union who were there are now dead from the same type of cancer.

 

[Knob Oddy]

17 hours ago, ted hughes said:

I didn't say "inert virus", you said that. I said "inert cell material". I didn't say the vaccine introduced the virus into the body, at all, because it doesn't.

Part of the difficulty responding to you is that so much of your posts are inaccurate both in ideas and the actual words you use, that it is difficult to grasp your meaning.

Hi Ted,

Let me make this simple for you. Messenger RNA vaccines have never been approved until now. There have been plenty of studies on them.

Why do you think the makers of the mRNA vaccines have been granted immunity from prosecution if there are side effects? 

 

[Silver]

22 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Hi Ted,

Let me make this simple for you. Messenger RNA vaccines have never been approved until now. There have been plenty of studies on them.

Why do you think the makers of the mRNA vaccines have been granted immunity from prosecution if there are side effects? 

 

Okay, Explain to me, in simple language, what messenger mRNAs are, how they differ from their precursors, and why you are dubious about their approval. I know you said you have accepted the vaccine yourself, so you don't have to repeat that.  You don't have to reference it. Just explain it in simple language. Just touch on the cell structure, molecular composition if you think it relevant, development of the vaccines, and anything else you think relevant.  Shouldn't take a moment without references. I'll be online for a while waiting. Thanks.

Edit: because the first three sentences suggest you may have a picnic deficiency. Prove me wrong!

Edited March 9, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Hi Ted,

Let me make this simple for you. Messenger RNA vaccines have never been approved until now. There have been plenty of studies on them.

Why do you think the makers of the mRNA vaccines have been granted immunity from prosecution if there are side effects? 

 

Hi Hugh, I've made the request again as you have been a while responding. As I say, explain to me, in simple language, what messenger mRNAs are, how they differ from their precursors, and why you are dubious about their approval. I know you said you have accepted the vaccine yourself, so you don't have to repeat that.  You don't have to reference it. Just explain it in simple language. Just touch on the cell structure, molecular composition if you think it relevant, development of the vaccines, and anything else you think relevant.  Shouldn't take a moment without references. 

Just make it simple covering the main points, I really am keen to know why you feel that there should be some disquiet about the vaccines, you mention "plenty of studies". Have these studies corroborated what you already thought about RNA's use in medicine? What are your views on the efficacy? Any why do you think the makers have been granted immunity? You are implying you know, even if I don't. Does the medicine not stack up? Does your own research suggest the manufacturers have taken short-cuts or something like that? Were the clinical trials of a type you approve? Oh, and on that point, what type of clinical trial do you think would be most appropriate in the case of the vaccines?

Just jot down a few points, much as I have just written here. It takes less than five minutes. TBH, I'm glad you are going to make it simple for me, as I doubt I would understand too much of your scientific jargon anyway, as I'm just a clinician! We clinicians are always in awe of you brain boxes!

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

23 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

You clearly are knowledgeable about this topic. You can barely tell where you copied directly from your source without linking.

 

How many approved mRNA vaccines are there?

 Why are the only ones approved for Covid?

Why are the makers of these vaccines immune from prosecution for side effects?

 

 

 

 You made the above response to Scholar4truth.

So go on, Hugh, tell us!

Edited March 9, 2021 by ted hughes

[Scholar4Truth]

According to a recent Israeli study on the Pfizer vaccine  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/11/pfizer-covid-vaccine-blocks-94percent-of-asymptomatic-infections-and-97percent-of-symptomatic-cases-in-israeli-study.html 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-biontech-israel-studay-1.5945478

Edited March 12, 2021 by Scholar4Truth

[ExpandMyMind]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:47 AM, Michelle said:

Outrage as video of anti-vaxxer Louis Farrakhan calling COVID vaccine the 'vial of death' is shared on Twitter and Facebook despite their misinformation 'crackdown'

Louis Farrakhan told believers that COVID-19 vaccine is a 'vial of death,' a claim that was shared on Twitter and Facebook despite misinformation policies

A video of Farrakhan saying the vaccine 'is death itself' was reportedly shared on Facebook and YouTube, where it remained until Saturday night 

Link to the video is still accessible in tweet from National of Islam as of Sunday

cont...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9335699/Louis-Farrakhans-vial-death-vaccine-claims-remain-Twitter-despite-misinformation-policies.html

I'm curious what the purpose of posting this was?

[+and-then]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:10 PM, ted hughes said:

And we all know scientists wear white coats and do things ordinary people don't understand!

I noticed that during my wife's medical school career.  I reinforced it during my 15+ years working as an imaging tech in hospitals.  As smartasses go, you're going to have to up your game if you want to stay in the humor zone here at UM.  Be as snarky as you like, ted, I'm not anti-vax... I'm pro-choice.  You know, the whole "my body, my choice" mantra you Lefties are so enamored of?

[Silver]

1 hour ago, and then said:

I noticed that during my wife's medical school career.  I reinforced it during my 15+ years working as an imaging tech in hospitals.  As smartasses go, you're going to have to up your game if you want to stay in the humor zone here at UM.  Be as snarky as you like, ted, I'm not anti-vax... I'm pro-choice.  You know, the whole "my body, my choice" mantra you Lefties are so enamored of?

I try very hard not to be snarky or mean, but if someone offers to teach or school me, I would expect them to back it up. I genuinely like to learn, which is why I am so fond of reddit - there are so many talented people contributing there, on all sorts of divers topics.

How does being anti anti-vaxx make me Lefty? I am really interested.

 

[Michelle]

11 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I'm curious what the purpose of posting this was?

The part highlighted in bold.