The situation in the Netherlands

[toast]

5 hours ago, joc said:

I live in the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE.  That's right my friend...I live in ....TEXAS!

 

[+joc]

8 hours ago, toast said:

 

 

[+joc]

12 hours ago, ted hughes said:

They knew at the time it was flu, and that it was a  respiratory infection:

During the 1918 influenza pandemic, masks became the go-to means of stopping the spread of infection to the public. Masks became mandatory in San Francisco in September of 1918, and those who didn’t comply faced fines, imprisonment and the threat of having their names printed in newspapers as “mask slackers.” 5 Hard-Earned Lessons from Pandemics of the Past - HISTORY

When the 1918 flu hit, doctors and scientists were unsure what caused it or how to treat it. link

[Silver]

34 minutes ago, joc said:

When the 1918 flu hit, doctors and scientists were unsure what caused it or how to treat it. link

This is what you wrote: What killed so many people Teddy...was a medical community missing the cause of transmission.  They thought it was linked to water...something in the water.  So, do you know what the modus operandi of the time was?  Boil the freaking water.  Got to boil the water...don't drink any water without boiling it.  And guess what else Teddy...people continued to die in large numbers because the masses were doing what they were told...boil the damn water!

Your link says: When the 1918 flu hit, doctors and scientists were unsure what caused it or how to treat it. Unlike today, there were no effective vaccines or antivirals, drugs that treat the flu.

So they knew it was flu (and obviously how it was transmitted) but they did not know what had caused it (we do, or have a very good idea)  and had no effective medication. Nothing to do with boiling water!

You're just factually wrong. You either mis-read, or didn't bother to read in the first place.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by ted hughes

[ChrLzs]

Quote

guess what else Teddy...people continued to die in large numbers because the masses were doing what they were told...boil the damn water!

Joc, if there is any possibility of contamination then of course it makes sense to boil the dam water to help avoid *any* infections ... eg secondary infections that when added to the Flu or whatever, may be more likely to kill you.

THINK before posting.  Your simplistic black-and-white-only + I-assume-I-know-everything-important approach gets quite embarrassing at times, and frankly I don't enjoy wasting my time reading such ignorant drivel. 

At least everyone is onto you now...

25 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

You either mis-read, or didn't bother to read in the first place

Yes, that's Joc's modus operandi - just check his other threads - everything from US politics to climate change.

[+joc]

8 hours ago, ted hughes said:

You're just factually wrong. You either mis-read, or didn't bother to read in the first place.

That is a possibility...not really sure where I read that...it was early last year.  I will give you that one Teddy!  At any rate...this is no 1918 Pandemic...I think we can all attest to that.

[Silver]

30 minutes ago, joc said:

That is a possibility...not really sure where I read that...it was early last year.  I will give you that one Teddy!  At any rate...this is no 1918 Pandemic...I think we can all attest to that.

Thanks. And I am sure you will agree that the Covid19 pandemic was not like 1918 because, with the knowledge we have now, we enforced lockdowns and made mask-wearing mandatory (the epicentre, in China, was locked-down and isolation was enforced even before the rest of the world was notified; we f---ked up our response in the UK but we still managed to lock-down and bring the economy to a virtual stand-still for 5 months. People were allowed outdoors once per day for 20 mins exercise and shopping once a week with social distancing and mask wearing in essential stores only).

[Eldorado]

Police in the Netherlands have used water cannon to clear anti-government demonstrators from a park in The Hague.

Some 2,000 demonstrators rallied in the centre of the city to protest against Covid-19 restrictions and other government policies.

Mounted officers as well as riot police with batons and dogs moved in after some of the protesters refused to leave at the end of the demonstration.

The protests come a day before voting begins in a general election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56393820

[Hyperionxvii]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:54 AM, ted hughes said:

Thanks. And I am sure you will agree that the Covid19 pandemic was not like 1918 because, with the knowledge we have now, we enforced lockdowns and made mask-wearing mandatory (the epicentre, in China, was locked-down and isolation was enforced even before the rest of the world was notified; we f---ked up our response in the UK but we still managed to lock-down and bring the economy to a virtual stand-still for 5 months. People were allowed outdoors once per day for 20 mins exercise and shopping once a week with social distancing and mask wearing in essential stores only).

Are you comparing Covid19 to the Spanish Flu? 

[Silver]

17 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

Are you comparing Covid19 to the Spanish Flu? 

There have been a lot of articles making comparisons. Here is one: How does COVID-19 coronavirus compare to the 1918 Spanish flu? (news-medical.net)

[Hyperionxvii]

1 minute ago, ted hughes said:

There have been a lot of articles making comparisons. Here is one: How does COVID-19 coronavirus compare to the 1918 Spanish flu? (news-medical.net)

I guess those stories I read about them stacking up entire families of dead bodies like cord wood must just be made up. Who knows, it's the internet. 

[Silver]

7 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

I guess those stories I read about them stacking up entire families of dead bodies like cord wood must just be made up. Who knows, it's the internet. 

Are you making a point? Are you talking about the mass graves in 1919 or 2020? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/brazil-manaus-coronavirus-mass-graves

[Hyperionxvii]

Just now, ted hughes said:

Are you making a point? Are you talking about the mass graves in 1919 or 2020? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/brazil-manaus-coronavirus-mass-graves

I'm just referring to something I read on the internet. It was just a story, have no idea about the accuracy. Not making a point. I'm asking if the two are comparable. 

[Silver]

6 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

I'm just referring to something I read on the internet. It was just a story, have no idea about the accuracy. Not making a point. I'm asking if the two are comparable. 

Far more deaths in 1919 pandemic of course, maybe 50x as many.

I think it is difficult to compare the virulence, these were days before sulphonamides were developed, a generation before the first antibiotics (secondary infections and pneumonia) which weren't even available in WW2, no medical ventilators, poor sanitary conditions and such poor diet among the working classes it was difficult to conscript them.

Edited March 14, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

8 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

I'm just referring to something I read on the internet. It was just a story, have no idea about the accuracy. Not making a point. I'm asking if the two are comparable. 

Both terrible tragedies. I am reminded of:

 No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thine own Or of thine friend's were. Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee. 

[Hyperionxvii]

2 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

Far more deaths in 1919 pandemic of course, maybe 50x as many.

I think it is difficult to compare the virulence, these were days before sulphonamides were developed, a generation before the first antibiotics (secondary infections and pneumonia) which weren't even available in WW2, no medical ventilators, poor sanitary conditions and such poor diet among the working classes it was difficult to conscript them.

That sort of makes it seem like Spanish Flu was worse. Maybe that's what I'm thinking. Greater population today and a lot more people traveling around the globe today to spread stuff. 

From my position on the planet, this doesn't really seem bad, because I don't know a single person who has had it, let alone died of it. My wife knows some people in Brazil who have had it, but none of them got really sick except for one guy who died and he was in his 80s. 

I never go outside much any more though, I'm glad to stay in my house working from home, never liked crowds that much anyway. 

[Silver]

1 minute ago, Hyperionxvii said:

That sort of makes it seem like Spanish Flu was worse. Maybe that's what I'm thinking. Greater population today and a lot more people traveling around the globe today to spread stuff. 

From my position on the planet, this doesn't really seem bad, because I don't know a single person who has had it, let alone died of it. My wife knows some people in Brazil who have had it, but none of them got really sick except for one guy who died and he was in his 80s. 

I never go outside much any more though, I'm glad to stay in my house working from home, never liked crowds that much anyway. 

Weird isn't it? In the UK we have had over 1000 deaths per day ascribed to Covid, which when you think is comparable to 3 jumbo jets crashing per day is shocking. Yet we have accepted it as part of life. No one in my immediate family died apart from a 36 year old nephew who was found dead sitting in front of his TV and tested Covid positive, no other cause for death was found with him. Three of four people in work were admitted to ICU and died. Quite a few tested positive without adverse outcome. One or two thousand in my city died of Covid since last year, I don't know their ages.

Since 1918 people generally are much fitter, stronger, live longer and have much better social conditions, so I think it is only the people gasping for breath that get admitted to hospital. I was one of the first to be vaccinated.

[+and-then]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:28 AM, toast said:

A little more simple for you: there is swarm intelligence in Australia and there is swarm stupidity in the USA. Both findings are backed by statistics and simple math. Irrefutable.

Ah yess, science has spoken, anyone who questions it are idiots and malcontents   Mind you stay indoors during heavy rains, T.  

Behaving stupidly isn't a human trait reserved to any one group.  Apparently though, there IS a large outlier here who still think their personal freedom means something.  

I am genuinely curious to see just how far citizens in different countries will allow themselves to be pushed by fear before they make ANY attempt to resist.

[+and-then]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:23 AM, thedutchiedutch said:

Crazy **** 

Yes... it WAS "crazy", and whoever did it needs to be found before they do it again.  Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this.  People tend to lash out irrationally when they are aware they are losing everything they've worked to build and are being made to rely on handouts from a government.  The Potato-in Chief over here was nice enough to tell the nation that IF we keep following all the rules, we MIGHT be able to gather in small groups by the 4th of July.  He and his handlers don't seem to even grasp the black irony of such an announcement.  

[Mirzam]

49 minutes ago, and then said:

Behaving stupidly isn't a human trait reserved to any one group.  Apparently though, there IS a large outlier here who still think their personal freedom means something.  

On 3/3/2021 at 10:06 PM, and then said:

Well, Ted, lots of things irritate me but I don't take my reaction to others as license to force them to give up any of their freedoms in an attempt to satisfy my outlook.  

Covid 19. It's 2021. With the technology we have, the number of scientists we have... And this is still going on? It managed to spread to every little niche on the planet? Does anyone have any understanding of how large our planet actually is? I know I certainly don't.

At first it seemed like an extremist exxageration and over reaction of an actual virus to fluctuate profit for the media, medical industry and bigger businesses. It had the capability of covering up any truth that could occur during that time frame, all across the world. Who knows what we missed. Not to mention, destroy the reputation of certain groups, individuals and companies. It was believable at first... But they kept changing the narrative. Then it kept getting more and more morbid.

"The vaccine is effective!" "Nevermind it does nothing." "The summer heat will kill it." "Masks are ineffective unless you have covid." "Nevermind, they are effective for everyone." "Herd immunity is the key." "Forget herd immunity, let's quarantine." .....What? It doesn't add up.

We don't need more "evidence". We need more common sense and intuition. I think freedom is the underlying theme here that is being attacked and everyone is either too afraid to say so, convinced everything they read is true without questioning it, or they are in a position where they seriously believe that they are protected if they defend covid. The media has complete control over some peoples minds.

I think the whole scenario got smothered and taken advantage of by corruption. Not every single news caster, scientist, or politician is honest.

[Hyperionxvii]

Just now, smanthaonvaca said:

Not every single news caster, scientist, or politician is honest.

That's the understatement of the century, at a time when everything is political, our media are so totally dishonest and disingenuous, and people get cancelled because of a simple opinion. 

[Mirzam]

19 minutes ago, Hyperionxvii said:

That's the understatement of the century, at a time when everything is political, our media are so totally dishonest and disingenuous, and people get cancelled because of a simple opinion. 

It's difficult to tell when someone will get kicked or not. It seems pretty sporadic. I looked on Twitter Search last summer and found that half of the doctor and scientist profiles I saw advocated the covid agenda, and the other half didn't. Some offered different health solutions. It seemed pretty split right down the middle, but not many of them really seemed to have gotten cancelled in comparison to the number of public figures and offbeat things. I don't know where Mr. Potato head could have possibly come from, or why it is so important... I actually find it a little humorous but i am sure some connected creators didn't.. unless they were paid off for strange reasons nobody would understand, which I doubt.

[Mirzam]

Quote

The individuals are among the 28,296 cases of 2019-nCoV which have been confirmed since the virus first came to the attention of health officials at the end of last year, after it sickened workers at a wholesale food market in the central Chinese city of Wuhan. 

I searched for articles from the beginning of the pandemic.

https://www.newsweek.com/cruise-ship-ill-coronavirus-death-toll-550-1485997

I wonder how many people actively think of how much the information changed since the original name title, WHO's publication listing of the Nov 2019 discovery on their website and corresponding social media accounts (idk if cdc and who deleted the posts or not), and it "came from mystery meat in Asia", and "the reporters on the ship brought it back to N. america."

HIV/AIDS was thought to be spread for a period of time before they realized how it was actually being transmitted. Admittedly at first when this all began I thought they were going to tell people to avoid eating meat because it came from food. Not at all what happened...

[Silver]

Are we allowed to talk about the Great Reset on UM or is it prohibited?

[Hyperionxvii]

9 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

Are we allowed to talk about the Great Reset on UM or is it prohibited?

Not sure why it would be. I think it's an actual real thing and worth discussing.