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spartan max2

80% of people close to death have vivid expie

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spartan max2
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As Death Approaches, Our Dreams Offer Comfort and Reconciliation

 

Summary: More than 80% of patients nearing the end of life reported experiencing dreams that were vivid, meaningful, and transformative. Patients reported the dreams made them feel supported, reassured and helped them to accept their impending death.

Source: The Conversation

One of the most devastating elements of the coronavirus pandemic has been the inability to personally care for loved ones who have fallen ill.

Again and again, grieving relatives have testified to how much more devastating their loved one’s death was because they were unable to hold their family member’s hand – to provide a familiar and comforting presence in their final days and hours.

 

https://neurosciencenews.com/death-dreams-17921/

Edited by spartan max2
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preacherman76

My wife worked for Hospice for 17 years. Heard and saw this type of thing all the time.

It brings me some comfort that my father who recently passed maybe wasn't alone. He was about a 14 hour drive away. Soon as I got the call I was on my way. I hoped he would make it till I got there, even though the doctor had told me he only had a couple hours left. I no sooner had the car packed and was backing out of my driveway when the doctor called me to tell me he was gone. I really hope this was the case for him, that he wasn't alone. That he never felt alone. 

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, preacherman76 said:

My wife worked for Hospice for 17 years. Heard and saw this type of thing all the time.

It brings me some comfort that my father who recently passed maybe wasn't alone. He was about a 14 hour drive away. Soon as I got the call I was on my way. I hoped he would make it till I got there, even though the doctor had told me he only had a couple hours left. I no sooner had the car packed and was backing out of my driveway when the doctor called me to tell me he was gone. I really hope this was the case for him, that he wasn't alone. That he never felt alone. 

Be it spiritual or only in our head, it's comforting to know most of us will have some kind of positive visit from loved ones before we die.

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preacherman76
Just now, spartan max2 said:

Be it spiritual or only in our head, it's comforting to know most of us will have some kind of positive visit from loved ones before we die.

Yeah this is one of those things where we really just don't know. Personally I feel this, while not proof of anything, leans towards there being something after this life. I've spoken to many nurses, and many people in general who's loved ones have had this experience. Far as I can tell these visions and dreams always have to do with people who have passed. To me, if this is just a brain mechanism to bring comfort during the death process, you could hallucinate any number of things, including living people. 

Also, to me, if it is a brain mechanism, than that just brings a whole bunch of questions. Like how does the brain understand it's own death, and feel the need, consciously, apart from you, to make you ok with the situation?     

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Liquid Gardens
10 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Like how does the brain understand it's own death, and feel the need, consciously, apart from you, to make you ok with the situation? 

I think the 'apart from you' is the issue, as I don't think it's 'apart'. The brain 'apart from us' will release a surge of adrenaline all on its own if you identify a threat, it will automatically release natural analgesic brain chemicals to help ease physical pain, etc.  Since grief and loss of loved ones are some of the most impactful experiences in our lives, ones that many people admit they never really 'get over' but just 'move on' from, it doesn't then surprise me that end-of-life dreams/visions focus on finding peace with and within them.

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papageorge1

I am also interested in the bigger question of whether this is all a creative effort of the dying person's brain or does it involve real contact with the spiritual planes of reality.  From what little I read here with the OP link, it seems that Dr. Kerr is trying to distance himself from that question and focusing on the earthly practical level.

In my school of thought, many of these experiences involve real contact with the spiritual planes. As death approaches the always interpenetrating astral/mental portion of ourselves are losing their usual tight grip to the physical body and experiencing more of the higher realms.

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Xeno-Fish

One last dream.

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Helen of Annoy
8 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I think the 'apart from you' is the issue, as I don't think it's 'apart'. The brain 'apart from us' will release a surge of adrenaline all on its own if you identify a threat, it will automatically release natural analgesic brain chemicals to help ease physical pain, etc.  Since grief and loss of loved ones are some of the most impactful experiences in our lives, ones that many people admit they never really 'get over' but just 'move on' from, it doesn't then surprise me that end-of-life dreams/visions focus on finding peace with and within them.

Makes sense.

But, personally, I think it's more than just a coping mechanism.

There were cases where people, who came back from the brink of death, were greeted on the other side by a loved one whom they thought is alive and well. If you didn't and couldn't know someone's dead, why would your brain imagine that very person is dead? 

It's quite usual that people in their last hours mention that someone they love, who is already dead, had come to their dream or to their room, in form of an apparition - a hallucination if you will - which is how they know they're about to go too, without fear. 

  

Not that I can know anything with certainty, I'm just thinking out loud. 

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preacherman76
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I think the 'apart from you' is the issue, as I don't think it's 'apart'. The brain 'apart from us' will release a surge of adrenaline all on its own if you identify a threat, it will automatically release natural analgesic brain chemicals to help ease physical pain, etc.  Since grief and loss of loved ones are some of the most impactful experiences in our lives, ones that many people admit they never really 'get over' but just 'move on' from, it doesn't then surprise me that end-of-life dreams/visions focus on finding peace with and within them.

Respectfully I have to disagree. The cause and effect of our brains facing a adrenaline surge is well documented and understood. It's a basic survival mechanism. We understand the how's and why's, through what parts of the brain this comes from....

Not so much in this case. To me, if it were comparable, we would see something like massive dumps of dopamine during the death process, making it painless and pleasant. But that's not what we are seeing here. We are seeing the brain make extremely complicated hallucinations, bringing comfort in a way that, well, just isn't the same. Now that's not to say there isn't massive dumps of feel good chemicals during the death process, but they certainly do not account for these visions. Heck I would think it would be more likely, once the death process gets to a certain point, that it would just shut down. You cant be stressed when you are not aware of anything. 

All that said, I don't claim to know that there is life after death. I just find this subject amazing. 

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Your links are worthwhile information.

I'm just going to point out that the the OP study is about "end of life" expierences, not NDEs. So unlike with NDEs these aren't people who flatlined it's people in hospice who are probably close to dying but who are typically still concincious. 

 

 

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onlookerofmayhem

Distressing Near Death Experiences :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6173534/

"The great majority of near-death experiences (NDEs) reported publicly over the past four decades have been described as pleasant, even glorious. Almost unnoticed in the euphoria about them has been the sobering fact that not all NDEs are so affirming. Some are deeply disturbing."

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Xeno-Fish
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Your links are worthwhile information.

I'm just going to point out that the the OP study is about "end of life" expierences, not NDEs. So unlike with NDEs these aren't people who flatlined it's people in hospice who are probably close to dying but who are typically still concincious. 

 

 

I figure a nde experience is the same as a death experience. One just goes further than the other. 

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and then
57 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I really hope this was the case for him, that he wasn't alone. That he never felt alone.

My mom passed from lung cancer at the age of 66.  From diagnosis to passing it took 10 months and nearly 8 of them were of a good quality.  Toward the end she made it clear she was tired and had had enough.  I was in a college program for medical radiography and was working nights at the hospital both for income and extra experience.  I'd gone to see her that last morning and she was much more lucid and focused and I guess I thought I'd be able to come again the next day so I went in for my shift.  She passed that evening and it took me a long time to stop feeling guilty about that choice to work rather than be at her side.  In our family, we NEVER parted without saying I love you.  EVER...  She knew how much she was loved and treasured and I think it's probably that way with most parents unless they actually have some terrible dysfunction they couldn't put behind them.  I'm thankful that wasn't the case with us.  This research is very comforting.  I plan to dig into it more deeply.  

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Liquid Gardens
7 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Respectfully I have to disagree. The cause and effect of our brains facing a adrenaline surge is well documented and understood. It's a basic survival mechanism. We understand the how's and why's, through what parts of the brain this comes from....

The point of mentioning that though was to point out that the brain already feels the need to do things 'apart from us'.  On some level it is 'us', not apart; "I" feel the adrenaline surge or analgesia and it's as much a part of me as any other feeling.  Since we have these built-in survival mechanisms, sometimes very powerful ones, it doesn't seem like that possibly manifesting as visions/dreams of dead loved ones is so unusual.  It seems like if you know you are going to die soon that seeing/believing that people don't actually die would be comforting; what else would bring equal comfort and peace?

10 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Not so much in this case. To me, if it were comparable, we would see something like massive dumps of dopamine during the death process, making it painless and pleasant. But that's not what we are seeing here. We are seeing the brain make extremely complicated hallucinations, bringing comfort in a way that, well, just isn't the same.

These hallucinations don't seem any more extremely complicated than dreams I have on a weekly basis, but that just might be me.  The dumps of brain chemicals for living people who are injured seems to only temporarily make things 'painless' sometimes for those injured, it has limitations obviously.

My dad told me that when my grandfather was in his final days at the hospital he called out for my uncle a couple times but it was in reference to something that happened when my uncle was only 10 or so years old, so at the time it was something from 30-40 years ago.  My uncle my grandpa was referring to is still alive, but we don't typically think this suggests astral time travel or something despite this complicated hallucination, we usually rack it up to drugs or in my grandfather's case apparent dementia.   Agreed, that it's interesting though.

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preacherman76
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, and then said:

My mom passed from lung cancer at the age of 66.  From diagnosis to passing it took 10 months and nearly 8 of them were of a good quality.  Toward the end she made it clear she was tired and had had enough.  I was in a college program for medical radiography and was working nights at the hospital both for income and extra experience.  I'd gone to see her that last morning and she was much more lucid and focused and I guess I thought I'd be able to come again the next day so I went in for my shift.  She passed that evening and it took me a long time to stop feeling guilty about that choice to work rather than be at her side.  In our family, we NEVER parted without saying I love you.  EVER...  She knew how much she was loved and treasured and I think it's probably that way with most parents unless they actually have some terrible dysfunction they couldn't put behind them.  I'm thankful that wasn't the case with us.  This research is very comforting.  I plan to dig into it more deeply.  

Yes I've heard of that many times. Hospice nurses call it something like a rally cry. I cant remember the exact term. Its where a person who is really close to death suddenly seems to get a lot better. It usually last just a few hours before they pass. It's another mystery.

Anyhow thanks for those comforting words. Lucky for me I was able to see him just the week before he died. Out of nowhere he decided to take the long trip to my sisters house, so we all met there. This was out of the ordinary for him, and looking back we think maybe even subconsciously, that he knew he didn't have long to live, and wanted to see us one last time.   

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Dreamer screamer
1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Be it spiritual or only in our head, it's comforting to know most of us will have some kind of positive visit from loved ones before we die.

Body is just here playing like an avatar in a computer game.   So when we die we simply withdraw from the game.  We simply look away and enter another avatar.   

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Xeno-Fish

@Liquid Gardens

The experience might be more along the lines of lucid dreaming.

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and then
6 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Your links are worthwhile information.

I'm just going to point out that the the OP study is about "end of life" expierences, not NDEs. So unlike with NDEs these aren't people who flatlined it's people in hospice who are probably close to dying but who are typically still concincious. 

 

 

Those who have not experienced faith in things unseen, search for a scientific explanation and I have no need to attack them for that.  None of us really know.   There are a few parts of these NDEs that simply don't fit that biological model of a dying brain.  The most important disconnect, IMO, is the often reported rebound in lucidity in the moments before death.  This happens with people who've been vegetative for weeks or months.  They're totally out of it and suddenly they're awake, alert and communicating.  One of the other aspects of NDEs that simply cannot be explained by the biological processes of brain death are the accurate reports from the NDE patient about events happening around them while they have no pulse and in some cases no brain activity on monitoring devices.  It isn't uncommon for them to report seeing things that are happening outside the room their body is in.  If these occurrences are faked, I'm reasonably sure we'd see people coming forward to ridicule the NDE experiencer.

I realize I kind of jumbled NDEs with end of life experiences and I understand that they are two separate situations.  Studies like this one offer comfort and sometimes hope, to families and friends who are experiencing the worst pain they'll EVER know.  Anything that helps the broken-hearted, devastated people who have lost someone precious to them, is a GOOD thing, IMO.  

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Helen of Annoy

Recently, there was one end-of-life situation in my part of the world, reported by our local media: a man was seriously ill with COVID, it wasn't certain if he'll make it. He was fighting for his life. Then he suddenly became visibly relaxed and calmly informed the nurses that his (long departed) mother came to his room to guide him, so they should focus on other patients, because he's about to travel soon. 

And soon he departed. Calm and relaxed. 

 

Not everyone communicates their experiences in the last moments, but they're common enough I'd say it's safe to assume none of us is alone in the last moments. 

Now, will someone think it's hallucinating or beginning to see the other side, that's obviously a matter of personal convictions that are usually based on personal experiences. If you saw someone transformed by a meaningful dream or a visitation, you are much more likely to accept that it's a phenomenon literally larger than life. 

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acute

Minutes before she died, my Mom looked up, with a huge smile on her face, and said "They're here!"

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Kismit
On 3/3/2021 at 5:18 AM, and then said:

My mom passed from lung cancer at the age of 66.  From diagnosis to passing it took 10 months and nearly 8 of them were of a good quality.  Toward the end she made it clear she was tired and had had enough.  I was in a college program for medical radiography and was working nights at the hospital both for income and extra experience.  I'd gone to see her that last morning and she was much more lucid and focused and I guess I thought I'd be able to come again the next day so I went in for my shift.  She passed that evening and it took me a long time to stop feeling guilty about that choice to work rather than be at her side.  In our family, we NEVER parted without saying I love you.  EVER...  She knew how much she was loved and treasured and I think it's probably that way with most parents unless they actually have some terrible dysfunction they couldn't put behind them.  I'm thankful that wasn't the case with us.  This research is very comforting.  I plan to dig into it more deeply.  

Netflix has a series called Surviving Death, which has a very good episode on this subject.

I remember my Grandad telling my Mum that the angels had come for him a few weeks before he passed away. 

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Mr Walker

What I took from the op was not about the "supernatural"   experiences of the dying 

It was about people being left to die alone,  often afraid, and without loved ones to comfort them 

There should NEVER be a reason for this 

I was with my in laws when each died, while they  were being cared for by us. We asked if the y should be hospitalised as the y approached death, but were told we were caring for them as well as a hospital would, and that they would be less afraid and stressed remaining with us 

I spent hours every day with my mother ( Who was hospitalised with a broken hip) in the month before she died  of pneumonia 

My father died on the operating table.

I wasn't there because he had told me I didn't need to be (400 miles from  our home and i was still teaching )   but his wife and two daughters were. 

 

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Davros of Skaro

People to me tend to think that hallucinations are rare, or hard to come by, and cannot carry the complex in short order. But it's not necessarily so.

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Davros of Skaro said:

People to me tend to think that hallucinations are rare, or hard to come by, and cannot carry the complex in short order. But it's not necessarily so.

Hi Davros

My Grampa and his 2 brothers as they got close to the end talked to me thinking I was my uncle and said things to me I had no idea what any of that was about, but truth be told my uncle and I were quite similar in our sense of humor and adventure.:innocent::whistle::lol:

jmccr8

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