This simulation we live in is a Proof for God

[Hyperionxvii 1,393]

1 minute ago, oslove said:

 

The second one, "there had to be 'something' before to get all this something we see now."

The fact and the truth is that there has always been existence, because if there had ever been non-existence, then we would not be here at all - nothing-ness cannot at all ever produce anything that is in existence, neither can it turn itself into something i.e. so that there would be existence instead of nothingness scil. non-existence.

.

I don't believe I said I believe there was, at some point, nothing. I was trying to argue against that. Maybe I just didn't communicate that well. 

[Tom O'Neil 108]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Well that is encouraging.  Instead of the long and eventful climb  of biological life, we appear one day on a computer simulation.  Likely we are a term project from some future alien adolescent.  I guess we may get turned off after the grades are assigned.  Saints and sinners, heaven and hell, all existence and our striving for meaning ends when the kid loads a new game.  Instead of Brahma, we could be the creation of a kid who would really rather have a girlfriend.  Comforting.

Not so fast:

The reason for everything, infinity and God is the consequence of the condition through infinite action:

The word consequence relates to everything as a whole as being infinite and the word, “inaction” should be removed from the dictionary, because it does not apply to our condition. Everything is always acted upon no matter what your perception is even if your false belief perceives inaction; this paradox is based on infinite energy of consequence and Tesla knew everything was always vibrating with energy. For example, a lifeguard at the beach spots someone drowning and does not react to a rescue; someone would point this out that inaction neglected a life, yet that’s a false perception. The action taken by a lifeguard at the beach could be applied as through a lens of a process born out of a decision, which is thought by action. Furthermore the consequence maybe a drowning while the lifeguard’s decisions could be related to a triage of another, a little kid walking into a rip current and then the lifeguard bolts out to redirect the kid. However a person does drown. You see energy is always vibrating with action and consequence is never ending. Therefore the reason for everything is infinite and so we have this consequence and it’s a forever condition of action!

Our soul construct or condition as a consequence never came from inaction and that word inaction should be stricken from the dictionary!

Therefore Infinity exists through action and this is the constant state of the consequences condition.

In other words our condition is forever due to the infinite energies direction of action.




by Tom O'Neil

[Tatetopa 18,426]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Aren't all of them god related in some way? That are it's intelligent design. (same thing really)

I don't think so.  Being able to program a sophisticated simulation  wit some form of Computer Aided Design and Computer Aided Manufacturing  is not separated from us by a vast gulf.  It is a continuum between where we are now and basic understandable steps in progress for some amount of time.  Even if it is 1000 years away, the steps are understandable and in sight, not shrouded in mystery.  The barrier between mundane and supernatural id not anywhere along that continuum. 

[Xeno-Fish 109,300]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

I don't think so.  Being able to program a sophisticated simulation  wit some form of Computer Aided Design and Computer Aided Manufacturing  is not separated from us by a vast gulf.  It is a continuum between where we are now and basic understandable steps in progress for some amount of time.  Even if it is 1000 years away, the steps are understandable and in sight, not shrouded in mystery.  The barrier between mundane and supernatural id not anywhere along that continuum. 

I don't think it would be much of a leap for some to call the programmer of the simulation "god", as some would see it as a divine act, or at least in their eyes. Still, I do not think we'll ever actually know. I could use a few more polygons in the right places.

[Tatetopa 18,426]

11 minutes ago, Tom O'Neil said:

Not so fast:

The reason for everything, infinity and God is the consequence of the condition through infinite action:

Great essay Tom, but it doesn't shed much light on the facts.

The creation of a simulation does not require omnipotence, omniscience or infinite existence.  A simulation is a limited and self contained creation.   The creator can experiment with different  laws of physics any way it wants as long as it is consistent within the simulation. 

A simulation does imply a creator, but the creator may be as limited as the simulation.  There may be billions of different simulations in the univers all programmed by limited and different beings.  I hope we didn't wind up in one where the creator likes to pull teh  wings off of flies or hold a big magnifying glass over our cities for the excitement.

[Tatetopa 18,426]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I don't think it would be much of a leap for some to call the programmer of the simulation "god", as some would see it as a divine act, or at least in their eyes.

Maybe the creator designed a few sims with those  characteristics because it needs positive reinforcement after breaking up with his significant other.   Losing oneself in a sim world may be for the enjoyment of the creator rather than the sim inhabitants.  And what do we call the being that just buys the simulation from a designer and uses it to play games?

[Tom O'Neil 108]

4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Maybe the creator designed a few sims with those  characteristics because it needs positive reinforcement after breaking up with his significant other.   Losing oneself in a sim world may be for the enjoyment of the creator rather than the sim inhabitants.  And what do we call the being that just buys the simulation from a designer and uses it to play games?

This is no game period

[Xeno-Fish 109,300]

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Maybe the creator designed a few sims with those  characteristics because it needs positive reinforcement after breaking up with his significant other.   Losing oneself in a sim world may be for the enjoyment of the creator rather than the sim inhabitants.  And what do we call the being that just buys the simulation from a designer and uses it to play games?

Maybe each individual is an individual simulation. While sharing a collective "reality", the purpose of which is unknown. Perhaps none at all. We exist because we can.

Interesting idea that the creator/player is just hanging out and watching the simulation run for 'fun'. 

[Mr Walker 6,712]

5 hours ago, Dreamer screamer said:

We will never understand how it all works on this level, it's impossible.  We are nothing but hairless monkeys on the verge of self destruction.

Perhaps, or  perhaps  we are hairless moneys on their way to the abilty to design, create, and build; life, planetary  systems and more  

 Take a human from  50000 years ago and bring them into your home.

He/she would have no comprehension   if placed into our  world.

Take us and place us 50000 years in the future.  We would be like that human from  the past.

Totally bewildered and a t a loss. 

[Mr Walker 6,712]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe each individual is an individual simulation. While sharing a collective "reality", the purpose of which is unknown. Perhaps none at all. We exist because we can.

Interesting idea that the creator/player is just hanging out and watching the simulation run for 'fun'. 

The secret is to access  the cheats or hacks, to manipulate the game  

[Guyver 5,067]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Well that is encouraging.  Instead of the long and eventful climb  of biological life, we appear one day on a computer simulation.  Likely we are a term project from some future alien adolescent.  I guess we may get turned off after the grades are assigned.  Saints and sinners, heaven and hell, all existence and our striving for meaning ends when the kid loads a new game.  Instead of Brahma, we could be the creation of a kid who would really rather have a girlfriend.  Comforting.

Yeah, it kinda sucks.  

[Dreamer screamer 494]

40 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The secret is to access  the cheats or hacks, to manipulate the game  

Who needs to access the cheats or hacks when all you have to do is read the manual.    It's all in there, in the bible what we are supposed to not do.

https://creationism.org/BibleUKJV/59Jam02.htm

2:9 But if all of you have respect to persons, all of you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.    < it is that simple!!   No hack required. 

[Mr Walker 6,712]

3 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Who needs to access the cheats or hacks when all you have to do is read the manual.    It's all in there, in the bible what we are supposed to not do.

https://creationism.org/BibleUKJV/59Jam02.htm

2:9 But if all of you have respect to persons, all of you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.    < it is that simple!!   No hack required. 

OR, that IS the hack   

I live by biblical principles, but don't believe it's literal truth. 

I live with "god",  and "god'  is my guide, protector, empowered and educator. 

The bible is second hand wisdom, from  other humans, of another age or era  Even if the y had direct contact with god it's not always relevant or usable in the modern age   A direct connection to god is first hand,  contemporary,  and thus more personalised,   up to date, and relevant  

 

[Tatetopa 18,426]

3 hours ago, Tom O'Neil said:

This is no game period

Doesn't appear to be a game to us Tom, but we don't have the ability to put ourselves into the mind of the creator or user of the sim.  

[Dreamer screamer 494]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

OR, that IS the hack   

I live by biblical principles, but don't believe it's literal truth. 

I live with "god",  and "god'  is my guide, protector, empowered and educator. 

The bible is second hand wisdom, from  other humans, of another age or era  Even if the y had direct contact with god it's not always relevant or usable in the modern age   A direct connection to god is first hand,  contemporary,  and thus more personalised,   up to date, and relevant  

 

The hack is the Duality.    If you lived by the bibles principles you wouldn't be on here.

Quote

 

[Dreamer screamer 494]

10 hours ago, Tom O'Neil said:

This is no game period

    It is a game and it has its rules like any game.    If you don't believe that then you are stuck here for a very long time.  Good luck.

[Mr Walker 6,712]

29 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

The hack is the Duality.    If you lived by the bibles principles you wouldn't be on here.

lol and why would that be?  I've read the bible many times and  studied it with many groups from  different faiths.

  I live by its principles more than most modern people would do.

But then, to me, those principles are also basic humanist principles 

There is nothing in it which would keep me off the internet, and some things in it which would tell me to get out and spread the word    (Thats not what I am doing, but its what the bible would urge me to do.)

To me material things are about 10% of my life. 90% is my spiritual self  and behaviours   eg I try to stay healthy and wealthy enough not to be dependent on others, and to be able to help others. BUT, as happened this week, if someone (truly)  needs my last 200 dollars more than me, I will happily give it to them.  

Ps by duality are you referring to the duality of man?

While it is true that humans have the potential for great good and great evil it is NOT true that both will inevitably  manifest in a persons life 

An ethical, educated, and disciplined person  will be 99% good and constructive, and sometimes may even achieve 100% 

By good fortune, and intent, I have  spent my life  surrounded by people who never intentionally do harm or hurt others The y would never steal or  cheat on their partner, and most would not even lie. The y would not do harm to an innocent, and would protect them from  harm    The y would not benefit from  the work or misfortune of another,   and they  contribute to building  strong, safe,  families and communities. 

Edited March 3 by Mr Walker

[Timothy 6,408]

15 hours ago, Tom O'Neil said:

*snip*

(1) My proof for why intelligence is not random is a bird could peck away at a keyboard all day and if tiny grains were on the keys; then a word was formed there would be no comprehension of it by the bird.
(2) Likewise, humans who are of intelligence can correlate the Chirping or songs of birds to their language like in mating. You see the mere acknowledgement of intelligence and the foundation of the universe straight away points to a designer not chaos!

*snip*

(1) of the above is simply probability.

Put seeds on a keyboard and yes, lo and behold, human words may be pecked.

(2) yes humans who are of higher intelligence than birds can try to interpret through observation, the meaning of different bird calls.

Doesn’t point to a designer at all. And those points have nothing to do with chaos. 

[Dreamer screamer 494]

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

lol and why would that be?  I've read the bible many times and  studied it with many groups from  different faiths.

Because you have agreed to be PERSONS and thus committed a trangression.

transgression

noun

an action that breaks a law or rule:   Did you break the rule in romans 13???   

 

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

  I live by its principles more than most modern people would do.

Clearly not!!

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

But then, to me, those principles are also basic humanist principles 

There is nothing in it which would keep me off the internet, and some things in it which would tell me to get out and spread the word    (Thats not what I am doing, but its what the bible would urge me to do.)

Refer to above.     Are we all guilty of this?

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

To me material things are about 10% of my life. 90% is my spiritual self  and behaviours   eg I try to stay healthy and wealthy enough not to be dependent on others, and to be able to help others. BUT, as happened this week, if someone (truly)  needs my last 200 dollars more than me, I will happily give it to them.  

So you need material wealth which again is a sin according to the bible?

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ps by duality are you referring to the duality of man?

Duality as in  positive and negative + and -  Electricity??    What operates the brain that makes us see this world???

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

While it is true that humans have the potential for great good and great evil it is NOT true that both will inevitably  manifest in a persons life 

What if you are being manipulated to be evil and manifest evil what is commonly just negative energy?

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

An ethical, educated, and disciplined person  will be 99% good and constructive, and sometimes may even achieve 100% 

By good fortune, and intent, I have  spent my life  surrounded by people who never intentionally do harm or hurt others The y would never steal or  cheat on their partner, and most would not even lie. The y would not do harm to an innocent, and would protect them from  harm    The y would not benefit from  the work or misfortune of another,   and they  contribute to building  strong, safe,  families and communities. 

I would call that being on the wrong path.  They lack the real truth of their reality.

[Dreamer screamer 494]

4 minutes ago, Timothy said:

(1) of the above is simply probability.

Put seeds on a keyboard and yes, lo and behold, human words may be pecked.

(2) yes humans who are of higher intelligence than birds can try to interpret through observation, the meaning of different bird calls.

Doesn’t point to a designer at all. And those points have nothing to do with chaos. 

Something had to design this world, just look around it's a thing of beauty.    

[Timothy 6,408]

19 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Something had to design this world, just look around it's a thing of beauty.    

I agree it’s definitely a thing of beauty.

But design doesn’t make sense. 

Earth is ~4.5 billion years old. When do you think the design occurred?

[Mr Walker 6,712]

35 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Because you have agreed to be PERSONS and thus committed a trangression.

transgression

noun

an action that breaks a law or rule:   Did you break the rule in romans 13???   

 

Clearly not!!

Refer to above.     Are we all guilty of this?

So you need material wealth which again is a sin according to the bible?

Duality as in  positive and negative + and -  Electricity??    What operates the brain that makes us see this world???

What if you are being manipulated to be evil and manifest evil what is commonly just negative energy?

I would call that being on the wrong path.  They lack the real truth of their reality.

lol  Biblically  any transgressions i have committed have been forgiven by the sacrifice of Christ and i am clothed in new raiments 

where I commit individual sins (almost never) I confess them, ask forgiveness, make restitution and do my best not to commit  them again  

is your understanding of Romans13 your own, or one you have been told by some religious authority ?

Its a complex passage but does NOT really have anything to  do with what you are saying  It describes the divine right of civil authority which (even if you think tha t acceptable in a modern age)  Is overriden by the divine right of god 

ie  where human laws contradict gods laws, a human must obey god'

s. In atheist/humanist   terms we must follow our conscience /ethics  and if that conscience goes against civil laws we must do what is right and accept the consequences  

Christ said that  the  laws were made for us. not we for the laws He said that the laws were made with love for us to keep us safe   

and so Romans explains 

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. ⁹ The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”^[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”^[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

In other words, the biblical  laws are made from,  and should be obeyed out of, love (Not fear, not legalism not duty or obedience ). 

Ps I am probably  the most law abiding person on UM, but I will break a law which does wrong or does harm, then accept the consequences  

it not a sin to need material things It is the LOVE of those things which leads a human into error  and makes it hard to follow a spiritual path.

   Hence my wife and i have given away over a million  dollars during our marriage to help others,

However if i had lived as a person without any income or money   i wouldn't have had any abilty to help others 

Many of christ's parables spoke of our duty to manage our wealth and business and to be good stewards and good shepherds.

 But its WHY we should do this that is important 

Sorry but i dont get your point about duality if its not what i explained.

 Humans are material and spiritual beings.

The thing is to maintain a positive healthy  balance 

I simply disagree with you  on your last point I dont know what you want of your community, but i am happy with mine  The y are GOOD people.  

(loving, kind, generous, honest, ethical, and moral) Not perfect, but good.  

Edited March 3 by Mr Walker