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Xeno-Fish

Religious OCD

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onlookerofmayhem
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Are those who are faithful because they want to be or is it fear that drives them?

I think it's a horrible practice to tell a child there is an eternal torment in store for them if they break "the rules."

I'm sure it's an easy addition to the parenting repertoire to warn a child that there's an invisible being watching every single thing they are doing. And that there's a punishment possibly in life, but definitely AFTER they die.

It surely works a lot of the time, but I don't endorse flat out lying to children.

But I believe this messes people up for life.

How many adults are still fearful of this?

Now I'm not endorsing doing whatever one wants because there's no reason to believe the above scenario.

I just think it's better to teach children about the real world consequences of their actions and how those actions can effect other people.

 

Edited by onlookerofmayhem
Grammar
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and then

I have no doubt that a person with OCD could channel the obsession into their religious rituals.  The idea of praying in a way that would be of "perfect form" isn't something I've ever  understood.  Prayer is just talking to God.  IMO, there should NEVER be a ritual of certain words in certain orders and so on.  

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zep73

As I've grown older, putting more and more years between me and my youthful encounter with Christianity, it is becoming more clear to me how ridiculous the concept of faith is.
How you think is the difference between eternal bliss or eternal suffering. How you think! Consider it for a while. It's ludicrous! But it's what the NT says!

And one more thing has become clear to me. Seeking salvation is a selfish act. You only do it to save your own behind.
So, you need to think in a certain way to save your own behind. Doesn't get more stupid and selfish than that.

Usually I would end with saying: I mean no disrespect, but I do. I have no respect whatsoever for faith. Only for people.

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Will Do
54 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Seeking salvation is a selfish act.

 

You are so right.

 

“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it, but whosoever will lose his life shall find it.”

 

 

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tcgram
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 

As long as I've been on UM. I can't help but wonder how many on here are like the above. When does a belief really become an obsession? Are those who are faithful because they want to be or is it fear that drives them? 

 

I have personally seen and talked with people like that.   My mom's side of the family border on the fanatical side about religion.   They go to church twice every Sunday, plus have what they call, "prayer meetings" on Monday-Saturday.   They expect the people of the congregation to attend each of these services and several of them do just that.  

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

https://centerforanxietydisorders.com/what-is-religious-ocd/

Symptoms of Religious OCD

Scrupulosity rituals can include such behaviors as:

Compulsively praying, which can involve restarting the prayer if you get distracted while saying it and/or repeating it if you didn’t feel you were concentrating properly on the prayer or on the meaning of the prayer

Asking others if you are behaving correctly or if you “did the right thing” or analyzing your behavior throughout the day to be sure you are acting “appropriately”

Reading or studying religious writings, books, and texts excessively

Questioning your motives in numerous situations

Excessively apologizing to a deity (God, Allah, etc) and seeking forgiveness for your behavior

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/religious-ocd-separating-shame-from-spirituality-1102184

Religious obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) is a type of OCD that causes a person obsess over spiritual fears. It often involves religious compulsions such as excessive prayer. For example, a person might worry they are going to Hell and repeat a mantra to cope with this fear. Religious OCD is also called “scrupulosity.”

Some examples of religious obsessions include:

Fear of not having enough faith.

Fear of going to Hell.

Fear of being unclean or contaminated according to the rules of one’s religion.

Fear of committing immoral behavior.

Examples of religious compulsions include:

Going to religious services much more often than is typical in one’s religion.

Seeking continual reassurance from religious authorities.

Performing acts of extreme self-denial or self-sacrifice.

Obsessive prayer, repetition of mantras, or cleansing rituals. (For example, a person might repeat a prayer over and over until they say it exactly right.)

As long as I've been on UM. I can't help but wonder how many on here are like the above. When does a belief really become an obsession? Are those who are faithful because they want to be or is it fear that drives them? 

 

No one,  almost certainly.

OCD is a specific, and quite rare, disorder.  

You would have  to be devoutly religious, AND experience severe OCD, to require those rituals and behaviours for emotional support.

  There are a few very devout theists here, but none who demonstrate  the characteristic behaviours of OCD  

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I think it's a horrible practice to tell a child there is an eternal torment in store for them if they break "the rules."

I'm sure it's an easy addition to the parenting repertoire to warn a child that there's an invisible being watching every single thing they are doing. And that there's a punishment possibly in life, but definitely AFTER they die.

It surely works a lot of the time, but I don't endorse flat out lying to children.

But I believe this messes people up for life.

How many adults are still fearful of this?

Now I'm not endorsing doing whatever one wants because there's no reason to believe the above scenario.

I just think it's better to teach children about the real world consequences of their actions and how those actions can effect other people.

 

Its a belief, and thus not necessarily a lie.  

However, I don't think you need to use mental trauma on children. Mild physical trauma is quite effective, and has far shorter psychological  effects  :)  

My parents were atheists, but had strict humanist  ethics, and standards  of behaviour .

We were told why there were family/societal rules, (and the reasons for those rules )  and what would be the consequences  if we broke them 

Discipline was consistent, but always done with love and no anger,  and   after discussion and review .

It was always fitted to the behaviour 

Today it might be seen as hard, but it was effective.

We all grew up loving and respecting our parents,  and we all maintained a loving, close, respectful, relationship with them, until the y died 

 

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, tcgram said:

I have personally seen and talked with people like that.   My mom's side of the family border on the fanatical side about religion.   They go to church twice every Sunday, plus have what they call, "prayer meetings" on Monday-Saturday.   They expect the people of the congregation to attend each of these services and several of them do just that.  

Yeah I know. It is terrible.

It is like those people who go to spectate at  two football matches on  the weekend,   and participate in another; who drag their reluctant, uninterested kids to them, and often force them to play the game , and then go to training and social evenings at the club, a couple of times every week.

They spend a fortune on memberships, marketed items, and  entrance fees, as well as over priced food and drinks at the games .

  Their only intelligent/knowledgeable   conversation is about football, and they don't associate with people who are not believers

Clearly something wrong with them :) 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tcgram said:

I have personally seen and talked with people like that.   My mom's side of the family border on the fanatical side about religion.   They go to church twice every Sunday, plus have what they call, "prayer meetings" on Monday-Saturday.   They expect the people of the congregation to attend each of these services and several of them do just that.  

I have known two people like this too. My mom was like this far worse, for the most part she was isolated didn’t have many friends this kind of fanatic turns others off. My mom turned me off to religion for life based on her example applied.
 

In my moms case, she couldn’t even function without constant Bible validation or preaching about it incessantly, it was a security blanket that really didn’t help give her peace of mind for all her touting it did anyway she ended up being committed twice for mental illness. I think the mental illness was her kooky woo ideas. She was getting out there on this aspect. 
 

There are extremists in this sense.

Edited by Sherapy
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Cookie Monster
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

https://centerforanxietydisorders.com/what-is-religious-ocd/

Symptoms of Religious OCD

Scrupulosity rituals can include such behaviors as:

Compulsively praying, which can involve restarting the prayer if you get distracted while saying it and/or repeating it if you didn’t feel you were concentrating properly on the prayer or on the meaning of the prayer

Asking others if you are behaving correctly or if you “did the right thing” or analyzing your behavior throughout the day to be sure you are acting “appropriately”

Reading or studying religious writings, books, and texts excessively

Questioning your motives in numerous situations

Excessively apologizing to a deity (God, Allah, etc) and seeking forgiveness for your behavior

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/religious-ocd-separating-shame-from-spirituality-1102184

Religious obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) is a type of OCD that causes a person obsess over spiritual fears. It often involves religious compulsions such as excessive prayer. For example, a person might worry they are going to Hell and repeat a mantra to cope with this fear. Religious OCD is also called “scrupulosity.”

Some examples of religious obsessions include:

Fear of not having enough faith.

Fear of going to Hell.

Fear of being unclean or contaminated according to the rules of one’s religion.

Fear of committing immoral behavior.

Examples of religious compulsions include:

Going to religious services much more often than is typical in one’s religion.

Seeking continual reassurance from religious authorities.

Performing acts of extreme self-denial or self-sacrifice.

Obsessive prayer, repetition of mantras, or cleansing rituals. (For example, a person might repeat a prayer over and over until they say it exactly right.)

As long as I've been on UM. I can't help but wonder how many on here are like the above. When does a belief really become an obsession? Are those who are faithful because they want to be or is it fear that drives them? 

 

In the Bible doesnt God know both good and evil?

Didnt God comment on how we are like them when we decided to gain knowledge of good and evil? Isn`t knowing both part of becoming like God? You know my views on religion Mr Fish.

Do whatever our ego pleases out of pure hedonism. Enjoy it, and show love to God for the pleasures he has provided us. Not denial. Not a wholly lob sided approach to life based on being purely good. But dont do anything that will get you locked away like machine gun your annoying neighbour.

Learn when its appropriate to enjoy good pleasures, and when its appropriate to enjoy evil pleasures. God created us to be hedonists so stop denying what we are. He created us that way for a reason. God gets its rocks off us enjoying ourselves, and when we enjoy ourselves we satisfy the needs of God.

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Hankenhunter
5 hours ago, zep73 said:

As I've grown older, putting more and more years between me and my youthful encounter with Christianity, it is becoming more clear to me how ridiculous the concept of faith is.
How you think is the difference between eternal bliss or eternal suffering. How you think! Consider it for a while. It's ludicrous! But it's what the NT says!

And one more thing has become clear to me. Seeking salvation is a selfish act. You only do it to save your own behind.
So, you need to think in a certain way to save your own behind. Doesn't get more stupid and selfish than that.

Usually I would end with saying: I mean no disrespect, but I do. I have no respect whatsoever for faith. Only for people.

Salvation is another buzzword to control people. There is no salvation. Only experiencing, and if you're wise, learning from it. Don't mistake true faith with organised religeon. Here is a true man of faith who's been there before. There are many like this right now on You Tube. 

 

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Hankenhunter
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

https://centerforanxietydisorders.com/what-is-religious-ocd/

Symptoms of Religious OCD

Scrupulosity rituals can include such behaviors as:

Compulsively praying, which can involve restarting the prayer if you get distracted while saying it and/or repeating it if you didn’t feel you were concentrating properly on the prayer or on the meaning of the prayer

Asking others if you are behaving correctly or if you “did the right thing” or analyzing your behavior throughout the day to be sure you are acting “appropriately”

Reading or studying religious writings, books, and texts excessively

Questioning your motives in numerous situations

Excessively apologizing to a deity (God, Allah, etc) and seeking forgiveness for your behavior

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/religious-ocd-separating-shame-from-spirituality-1102184

Religious obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) is a type of OCD that causes a person obsess over spiritual fears. It often involves religious compulsions such as excessive prayer. For example, a person might worry they are going to Hell and repeat a mantra to cope with this fear. Religious OCD is also called “scrupulosity.”

Some examples of religious obsessions include:

Fear of not having enough faith.

Fear of going to Hell.

Fear of being unclean or contaminated according to the rules of one’s religion.

Fear of committing immoral behavior.

Examples of religious compulsions include:

Going to religious services much more often than is typical in one’s religion.

Seeking continual reassurance from religious authorities.

Performing acts of extreme self-denial or self-sacrifice.

Obsessive prayer, repetition of mantras, or cleansing rituals. (For example, a person might repeat a prayer over and over until they say it exactly right.)

As long as I've been on UM. I can't help but wonder how many on here are like the above. When does a belief really become an obsession? Are those who are faithful because they want to be or is it fear that drives them? 

 

Buddhist's are not this way at all. None on that list are applicable to a Buddhist except for the praying, and that is more meditation than anything else. Besides, they got smart, and made prayer wheels, and flags for that. :P

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Hankenhunter
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

I have known two people like this too. My mom was like this far worse, for the most part she was isolated didn’t have many friends this kind of fanatic turns others off. My mom turned me off to religion for life based on her example applied.
 

In my moms case, she couldn’t even function without constant Bible validation or preaching about it incessantly, it was a security blanket that really didn’t help give her peace of mind for all her touting it did anyway she ended up being committed twice for mental illness. I think the mental illness was her kooky woo ideas. She was getting out there on this aspect. 
 

There are extremists in this sense.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. It's never easy to deal with religeous zealotry. My heart goes out to you. I've been there. It's not pretty to see, nor experience on a daily basis. Love, and light to you.

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Sherapy
Just now, Hankenhunter said:

I'm sorry you had to go through that. It's never easy to deal with religeous zealotry. My heart goes out to you. I've been there. It's not pretty to see, nor experience on a daily basis. Love, and light to you.

Thank you for your kind words and empathy. 

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Hankenhunter
Just now, Sherapy said:

Thank you for your kind words and empathy. 

No. Thank you, for what you do on a daily basis. May the Creator bless you, and all that you do for others.  May your life be blessed with success, and happiness. But, I suspect it already has.  In my mind, there is no higher calling than easing others fears, anxieties, and hurts when their time has come. No matter their race, or religeon. 

Hank

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Sherapy
7 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

No. Thank you, for what you do on a daily basis. May the Creator bless you, and all that you do for others.  May your life be blessed with success, and happiness. But, I suspect it already has.  In my mind, there is no higher calling than easing others fears, anxieties, and hurts when their time has come. No matter their race, or religeon. 

Hank

Ahhh:wub: thank you. You made my night.

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Hankenhunter
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

In the Bible doesnt God know both good and evil?

Didnt God comment on how we are like them when we decided to gain knowledge of good and evil? Isn`t knowing both part of becoming like God? You know my views on religion Mr Fish.

Do whatever our ego pleases out of pure hedonism. Enjoy it, and show love to God for the pleasures he has provided us. Not denial. Not a wholly lob sided approach to life based on being purely good. But dont do anything that will get you locked away like machine gun your annoying neighbour.

Learn when its appropriate to enjoy good pleasures, and when its appropriate to enjoy evil pleasures. God created us to be hedonists so stop denying what we are. He created us that way for a reason. God gets its rocks off us enjoying ourselves, and when we enjoy ourselves we satisfy the needs of God.

This has to be the most modern day interpretation of re-incarnation I've ever read. The creator/god/ oversoal gave us free will for a reason. So that it can experience everything via it's creations. Good or bad. In your own way, you nailed it. 

Edited by Hankenhunter
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Hankenhunter
4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Its a belief, and thus not necessarily a lie.  

However, I don't think you need to use mental trauma on children. Mild physical trauma is quite effective, and has far shorter psychological  effects  :)  

My parents were atheists, but had strict humanist  ethics, and standards  of behaviour .

We were told why there were family/societal rules, (and the reasons for those rules )  and what would be the consequences  if we broke them 

Discipline was consistent, but always done with love and no anger,  and   after discussion and review .

It was always fitted to the behaviour 

Today it might be seen as hard, but it was effective.

We all grew up loving and respecting our parents,  and we all maintained a loving, close, respectful, relationship with them, until the y died 

 

Love, and light to you Mr. Walker

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Hankenhunter
5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ahhh:wub: thank you. You made my night.

What really blows me away is that many  people who have forced retirement in your field, come back, and do it for free in home care, and volunteerism in the hospice care in general. Just knowing you makes me happy. Sorry, no more gushy, wushy. Just had to be said cause  you folks don't get enough recognition.

Hank out.

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and then
6 hours ago, zep73 said:

. I have no respect whatsoever for faith. Only for people.

I'm pleased to hear that.  More often than not, folks can't seem to separate their dislike for the beliefs of others from disliking the people who genuinely hold those beliefs.  As a person of faith, I have never nor would ever demand that anyone be forced to believe in anything they reject.  

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Crazy Horse
7 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I think it's a horrible practice to tell a child there is an eternal torment in store for them if they break "the rules."

I'm sure it's an easy addition to the parenting repertoire to warn a child that there's an invisible being watching every single thing they are doing. And that there's a punishment possibly in life, but definitely AFTER they die.

It surely works a lot of the time, but I don't endorse flat out lying to children.

But I believe this messes people up for life.

How many adults are still fearful of this?

Now I'm not endorsing doing whatever one wants because there's no reason to believe the above scenario.

I just think it's better to teach children about the real world consequences of their actions and how those actions can effect other people.

 

It funny how atheists always seem to push the "fear factor" as the prime motivator for an individuals spiritual practice.

Nothing much to do with a love of GOD, of life, of Creation in general.

Nothing much to do with enjoying ones life, right here, right now.

As for teaching children about the real world consequences of their actions, I think that's a wonderful idea. Perhaps one might start with the very real consequence of being negative all the time, being fearful etc. Although, for children, this might be a little too complicated!

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Crazy Horse
6 hours ago, zep73 said:

As I've grown older, putting more and more years between me and my youthful encounter with Christianity, it is becoming more clear to me how ridiculous the concept of faith is.
How you think is the difference between eternal bliss or eternal suffering. How you think! Consider it for a while. It's ludicrous! But it's what the NT says!

And one more thing has become clear to me. Seeking salvation is a selfish act. You only do it to save your own behind.
So, you need to think in a certain way to save your own behind. Doesn't get more stupid and selfish than that.

Usually I would end with saying: I mean no disrespect, but I do. I have no respect whatsoever for faith. Only for people.

How, and what you think, shall affect every aspect of ones life.

It may lead one to happiness, peace, and clarity.

Hardly ridiculous.

And, to seek salvation for oneself, to then be better equipped to help other folk, is hardly stupid, or selfish. 

Perhaps if you had a little more respect for these folk of faith, then you wouldn't write such rubbish.

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Crazy Horse
6 hours ago, Will Do said:

 

You are so right.

 

“Whosoever will save his life shall lose it, but whosoever will lose his life shall find it.”

 

 

Well that depends upon the motivation in the first place.

That piece of scripture can be interpreted in several different ways.

Personally I see it..

If one keeps the ego, the selfish personality, instead of surrendering to GOD, then this Eternal Now, cannot be known..

But may be that's just me, Will?

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Hammerclaw

Is there a disorder for people who constantly obsess about people who constantly obsess about religion?

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